Video, Coulter Draws Ire For Comment About ‘Single Moms’

[Drekkan85]

Do you really think she's the only one who points out this data? What if Katie Couric points it out instead? Are you still going to defend your statement as well? Please, don't be an enabler because that's what you are doing.

Nice move dodging how Phylogeny completely destroys your argument.

I see what you did thar!

 

[tulc]

You mean high percentage liberal "Christians" in prison? Sure, go have a ball with it and I'll join you.

I suspect there are more conservative Baptists in prison then liberal High Church members.
tulc(seems pretty obvious when you think about it)

 

[kermit]

Do you really think she's the only one who points out this data? What if Katie Couric points it out instead? Are you still going to defend your statement as well? Please, don't be an enabler because that's what you are doing.

Does this correlation transcend socioeconomic level? Is the child of a single mother who makes a 6-figure salary as likely to end up in prison as one who lives on welfare? Or does the trend of single mothers with children who end up on prison follow socioeconomic trends? The fact is that single mothers are more likely to have children who go to jail because they are more likely to live in poverty.

It seems that you are the one enabling sloppy analysis to support preconcieved notions. The analysis here is basically the same that the white supremists use to say that blacks are inferior because they are more likely to end up in prison. The reality that undoes their analysis is that black people disproportionately live in poverty. Simply looking at race ignores socioeconomic status as does looking at number of parents.

 

[jsn112]

Nice move dodging how Phylogeny completely destroys your argument.

I see what you did thar!

I didn't know I was the one who came up with the data. I thought the data was done universally by unbiased industry. Silly me. I will note that the next time I make up some other data. Also, If Phylogeny wants the US to become like Japan where 3 or 4 generations living in SAME house, the go ahead and make that as your lifestyle. In case you have been living in cave for the last couple of centuries, Americans love their independence from their parents.

Still, regardless of any apologists say, 70-80% of prison inmates are raised by single mother. It's still a FACT.

 

[jsn112]

I suspect there are more conservative Baptists in prison then liberal High Church members.
tulc(seems pretty obvious when you think about it)

How do you figure?

 

[jsn112]

Does this correlation transcend socioeconomic level? Is the child of a single mother who makes a 6-figure salary as likely to end up in prison as one who lives on welfare? Or does the trend of single mothers with children who end up on prison follow socioeconomic trends? The fact is that single mothers are more likely to have children who go to jail because they are more likely to live in poverty.

It seems that you are the one enabling sloppy analysis to support preconcieved notions. The analysis here is basically the same that the white supremists use to say that blacks are inferior because they are more likely to end up in prison. The reality that undoes their analysis is that black people disproportionately live in poverty. Simply looking at race ignores socioeconomic status as does looking at number of parents.

So, you approve the status quo?

 

[tulc]

How do you figure?

uhmmm if you go into most poor neighborhoods do you see a lot of "liberal" (whatever that means) Churches or a lot of Baptist Churches? And if most of the people in prison come for poor backgrounds doesn't it sort of follow what kind of Churches they attended?
tulc(seemed pretty obvious to me)

 

[kermit]

So, you approve the status quo?

I never claimed nor implied that. Please stop with the red herrings.

I believe the first step toward correcting a problem is correctly identifying it causes. Coulter isn't correctly identifying the cause of the problem; she is scapegoating the problem. You see, fighting poverty is hard to sell to right-wingers. Blaming those bad liberal single moms sells more books.

 

[Drekkan85]

I didn't know I was the one who came up with the data. I thought the data was done universally by unbiased industry. Silly me. I will note that the next time I make up some other data. Also, If Phylogeny wants the US to become like Japan where 3 or 4 generations living in SAME house, the go ahead and make that as your lifestyle. In case you have been living in cave for the last couple of centuries, Americans love their independence from their parents.

Still, regardless of any apologists say, 70-80% of prison inmates are raised by single mother. It's still a FACT.

Except that wasn't his point. The point is that what she's saying (and you're saying) is idiotic because it's manhandling statistics. Hence correlation=/=causation. They then go on to say that you're advocating double parent homes because (in your view) the statistics show that these lead to fewer criminals (again, that's not actually what those statistics show, but we're using your warped worldview). Phylogeny shows that in Japan where families DO live in 3-4 generations in one household they have an EVEN LOWER crime rate. Thus, using your argument, the government should encourage or we should live in those style of households.

 

[Caitlin.ann]

Man Coulter is an idiot.

 

[jsn112]

Except that wasn't his point. The point is that what she's saying (and you're saying) is idiotic because it's manhandling statistics. Hence correlation=/=causation. They then go on to say that you're advocating double parent homes because (in your view) the statistics show that these lead to fewer criminals (again, that's not actually what those statistics show, but we're using your warped worldview). Phylogeny shows that in Japan where families DO live in 3-4 generations in one household they have an EVEN LOWER crime rate. Thus, using your argument, the government should encourage or we should live in those style of households.

Phylogeny doesn't have a point. The US culture is DIFFERENT then Japan! Don't you understand that? In addition, the Asian culture, be it in the US or Japan or any other country, is different. Let me explain to you since I come from that culture: In Asian culture, we are taught to respect our elderly and to preserve the family environment. It's not that don't seek independence, but we are obligated to care for family members. Rarely do you see Asian making headlines. I am not saying it doesn't happen. But when it does, it's rare. Just tune in the 10 or 11 o'clock news and who do you see most of the time? I might be stereotyping, but you don't understand the Asian culture. If you want to live in that culture, then go ahead and try it. Nobody is telling you that you shouldn't. There's more, but I won't waste your time and my time. So the single mother in the US is DIFFERENT than the single mother in Japan. Single mother in the US, most of the time, don't have the structure of 3-4 generations to help her, no matter how you want to deny it. In Japan, the 3-4 generations in the same household is the NORM, and not the exception!

 

[jsn112]

I suspect there are more conservative Baptists in prison then liberal High Church members.
tulc(seems pretty obvious when you think about it)

So you're saying liberal Christians don't attend Baptist church? I know at least 60% liberals attend my church, and it's a conservative church.

 

[jsn112]

I never claimed nor implied that. Please stop with the red herrings.

I believe the first step toward correcting a problem is correctly identifying it causes. Coulter isn't correctly identifying the cause of the problem; she is scapegoating the problem. You see, fighting poverty is hard to sell to right-wingers. Blaming those bad liberal single moms sells more books.

How do you figure the right wing don't want to solve proverty? Is it because we don't want to be an enabler by refusing to just give out entitlements, etc.? Then, I am guilty as charged.

 

[tulc]

So you're saying liberal Christians don't attend Baptist church? I know at least 60% liberals attend my church, and it's a conservative church.

hmmm I guess that would depend on what you mean by "liberal"?
tulc(just wondering)

 

[Drekkan85]

Phylogeny doesn't have a point. The US culture is DIFFERENT then Japan! Don't you understand that?

Mamma Mia! You do kind of understand the point. Phylogeny was being facetious to show how just using statistics (and then saying "this narrow statistic proves y") is idiotic. There are other factors involved.

He took your case, "Fewer children from double parent families go to prison" and disregarded the situation of those mothers/double parent families. He then applied it to another situation "In Japan they live in 3-4 generation families and have an EVEN LOWER crime rate therefore we should live in 3-4 generation family situations". It's idiotic, but it's the exact same line of argument as your own.

He was attempting to show the old saying of 'correlation does not equal causation'. Please tell me that you understand the difference between the two. The reason that's important is that you can then fix the other factors involved (by giving aid, improving social programs, providing free day care etc) to address the real reason that the situation occurs - socio economic differences.

In addition, the Asian culture, be it in the US or Japan or any other country, is different. Let me explain to you since I come from that culture: In Asian culture, we are taught to respect our elderly and to preserve the family environment.

Indeed, as someone who's studied Japan extensively, lived here for the last two years, lived with a Japanese family, and dated a few Japanese girls I can say I know absolutely nothing about "Asian culture" (and I think more then a few Koreans, Chinese, and Vietnamese would resent being lumped into a singular 'Asian Culture' with the Japanese or each other). Yes, respecting your elders is the relative norm; yet as a teacher I frequently run into youth who do not fit this norm. This again points to the point Phylogeny was making - you can't trust a single number pulled from a study, you have to examine the whole situation in its entirety.

Just tune in the 10 or 11 o'clock news and who do you see most of the time? I might be stereotyping, but you don't understand the Asian culture.

Wait, that Virginia Tech shooter - what culture was he from again?

If you want to live in that culture, then go ahead and try it. Nobody is telling you that you shouldn't. There's more, but I won't waste your time and my time. So the single mother in the US is DIFFERENT than the single mother in Japan. Single mother in the US, most of the time, don't have the structure of 3-4 generations to help her, no matter how you want to deny it. In Japan, the 3-4 generations in the same household is the NORM, and not the exception!

Yes, and his point is that their norm has lower crime rates so, by your logic, we should all adopt it. It's simplistic, but it's an extension of your own argument and the rhetorical device is meant to demonstrate the absurdity of the original suggestion.

 

[kermit]

How do you figure the right wing don't want to solve proverty? Is it because we don't want to be an enabler by refusing to just give out entitlements, etc.? Then, I am guilty as charged.

You illustrate why I say it. Every time someone mentions the war on poverty you righties go off on how entitlements cause the problem yet you never offer any other solutions. Nay saying doesn't count as working toward a solution.

Since you ignored that part, I guess it's is safe to say you agree that Coulter is not correctly identifying the source of the problem?