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is it being something other than a human individual?But NOT a human being. BIG DIFFERENCE
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is it being something other than a human individual?But NOT a human being. BIG DIFFERENCE
Yah, make the statement about something else, AND it may be false.exchange the word womb with a hospital room with a car accident victim in it who is in a vegatative state. Therein lies your fallacy.
This is either yet another example of your wordsmithing or simply not comprehending what is being said. Everyone I know (other than you) who supports abortion still acknowledges that there is a human being in the womb. The standard abortion debate circles around distinguishing between a human being and a human person. That is the distinction that Dr. Montague would make.Well he recognizes ANY HUMAN CELLS IN THE WOMB ARE ALIVE.
That is all that is saying, at least all it is saying that is TRUE.
He is (was) not about to say what is in the womb is NOT alive, of course.
THE FETUS (or whatever is in the womb) is usually alive. BIG HAIRY DEAL.
There is life there - big hairy deal. (Of course he also recognizes "life" the life of a human being, comes all the way from conception.)
ACTUALLY IT IS PRESENT IN THE SPERM AND OVUM TOO OF COURSE.
Douglas, do you not understand what begging the question means? Your pink text is exactly what begging the question is. Using just the handful of references I've provided demonstrates that the current scientific position is that a new human being comes into existence at fertilization. Your position is contrary to everything we know about science, not to mention what Scripture teaches. Your pink text is begging the question because you're making an implicit assumption about what a human being is when you make that statement. So it's begging the question because you're assuming your position when you make that naked and unsupported assertion. Again, I welcome any references and material that you want to bring to the discussion. But if all you continue to fall back upon is your own subjective notions, then we may as well let this go.Douglas Hendrickson said: ↑
"THERE IS NEVER IN THE WOMB ANYTHING LIKE THE REAL DIRECTION OF REAL HUMAN ACTIVITIES OF REAL PEOPLE WITH REAL BRAINS."
Can you in any way demonstrate there is anything false in this statement?
If you cannot,
stop with the claiming I should appeal to some AUTHORITY, which is your logical fallacy way of arguing.
THIS IS RIDICULOUS.This is either yet another example of your wordsmithing or simply not comprehending what is being said. Everyone I know (other than you) who supports abortion still acknowledges that there is a human being in the womb. The standard abortion debate circles around distinguishing between a human being and a human person. That is the distinction that Dr. Montague would make.
What he said was: (Here's your cited material.)What you failed to comprehend was that the pro-abortion medical professional I quoted acknowledges that a new human being is created at fertilization. Can you provide any cited material that disagrees with this basic scientific fact?
“The basic fact is simple: life begins not at birth, but conception."
Using just the handful of references I've provided demonstrates that the current scientific position is that a new human being comes into existence at fertilization. Your position is contrary to everything we know about science, not to mention what Scripture teaches. Your pink text is begging the question because you're making an implicit assumption about what a human being is when you make that statement. So it's begging the question because you're assuming your position when you make that naked and unsupported assertion. Again, I welcome any references and material that you want to bring to the discussion. But if all you continue to fall back upon is your own subjective notions, then we may as well let this go.
Obviously I think most everything you write about the nature of when human life begins is false, otherwise we wouldn't continue to have these laborious conversations. The difference between what you write and what I write is that I support my assertions with actual scientific and biblical evidence and material. As far as I can recall, you don't support your assertions with anything beyond bold lettering and pink text.Yah, so if I read correctly, there is nothing you could find, NOTHING IN MY "RED INK" THAT YOU CAN POINT TO BEING FALSE.
In other words, MY WORDS stand true.
A bit ridiculous to think your references demonstrate anything except they are "pro-life" concoctions. GIVE ME JUST ONE (not a whole bunch at once), that I haven't refuted or cannot refute.
Douglas Hendrickson said: ↑
"THERE IS NEVER IN THE WOMB ANYTHING LIKE THE REAL DIRECTION OF REAL HUMAN ACTIVITIES OF REAL PEOPLE WITH REAL BRAINS."
Can you in any way demonstrate there is anything false in this statement?
If you cannot,
stop with the claiming I should appeal to some AUTHORITY, which is your logical fallacy way
A developed brain is all that distinguishes the embryo in the womb. It's acts and any other humans are act's to perfect the powers of the soul.
your answer doesn't include what it means to be a human individual. Apparently you don't know.Same answer as #92.
Im wronly assuming you understand the terms you are using philosophically. Using them in common language makes for a debate fraught with confusion.Come on!
I never say a cancer is a being an human individual.
So respond to what I actually say, not some imaginings.
It means to be born - I know that much.your answer doesn't include what it means to be a human individual. Apparently you don't know.
The opinion you are WRONG is very much supported by merely pointing to what you say!Obviously I think most everything you write about the nature of when human life begins is false, otherwise we wouldn't continue to have these laborious conversations. The difference between what you write and what I write is that I support my assertions with actual scientific and biblical evidence and material. As far as I can recall, you don't support your assertions with anything beyond bold lettering and pink text.
Anyway, if you think I'm wrong, demonstrate it by supplying credible sources that support your opinion. Otherwise it's just empty pink text.
He makes precisely the point that 100% of every other scientific and medical professional makes: That a new human being comes into existence at fertilization. The reason he didn’t spell it out in a way that you would comprehend is because it is so incredibly common knowledge and scientific fact st this point when a new human being comes into existence that he’s taking for granted the common sense nature of people hearing him.You won't even acknowledge that your "pro-abortion professional" DOES NOT EVEN MAKE THE POINT YOU THINK HE MAKES !
No respect for truth, far as I can see.
And where do you get that from? SHEAR SPECULATION of what is "incredibly common knowledge."He makes precisely the point that 100% of every other scientific and medical professional makes: That a new human being comes into existence at fertilization. The reason he didn’t spell it out in a way that you would comprehend is because it is so incredibly common knowledge and scientific fact st this point when a new human being comes into existence that he’s taking for granted the common sense nature of people hearing him.
I’m sorry Douglas, but I don’t have anything else to say because you don’t have anything credible to present other than your unsupported, easily refuted belief. Neither science nor Scripture agree with your unsupported opinion. I’ll continie to engage with you once you bring something more than your opinion to the table.
The only way that you can state that there is "never" in the womb anything like "real human activities" of "real people" is if you assume beforehand that the unborn are not humans. And that of course, is begging the question, because what you're attempting to establish is that what is in the womb is not a human being. But you have to do that first, before making claims like this. Thus, begging the question.
Human beings in the womb act exactly like they’re supposed to, doing what real human beings do. The development of human beings lasts about 25 years. We act differently and have different capabilities at the different levels of development. I don’t compare toddler activities to adult activities, nor would I compare activities in a womb to activities outside a womb. But we are still talking about a human being at whatever stage of development they’re at.I am asking whether there is EVER "anything like the real direction of real human activities of real people with real human brains to be found in a womb?" TO REPHRASE IT AS QUESTION.