Not wanting to clutter up a thread in which someone quite honestly appeared to be seeking guidance I felt it best to start another thread for people to discuss the issue.
Here is the main divergence post:
I said:↑
nobodysfool said:
I'm sorry, but I must disagree with you on this. Here's why:
(20) Then he went home, and the crowd gathered again, so that they could not even eat. (21) And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, "He is out of his mind." (22) And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, "He is possessed by Beelzebul," and "by the prince of demons he casts out the demons."
(23) And he called them to him and said to them in parables, "How can Satan cast out Satan? (24) If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. (25) And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. (26) And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end. (27) But no one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.
(28) "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, (29) but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"-- (30) for they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."
Mat 12:22-37 Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. (23) And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of David?" (24) But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons."
(25) Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. (26) And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? (27) And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. (28) But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. (29) Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. (30) Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. (31) Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. (32) And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
These two passages make it very clear exactly what Jesus was saying, and what He meant. He was accused of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub, aka Satan. Jesus' response was pointed, direct, and certain. He identified blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as a sin which would never be forgiven. What was that blasphemy? Calling the power of the Holy Spirit to be the power of Satan.
That is not simple unbelief. The Pharisees knew what Jesus was doing, and by what power He was doing it. They themselves occasionally performed exorcisms, and none of them would have invoked the power of Satan to do so. So, they knew whose power it was, and they deliberately and knowingly said it was the power of Satan, as part of their desire to discredit Jesus.
That shows us several things: first, a person can speak against the Son of God, and it will be forgiven. Jesus said so. A person can speak against the Father, and it will be forgiven. But, if someone knowingly calls the power of the Holy Spirit to be the power of Satan, they will NEVER be forgiven. EVER. Jesus said so.
Now, for some reason, people want to turn the unforgivable sin into anything but what Jesus called it. They want to call it unbelief. And in the same breath they will argue that Jesus died for all the sins of all the people. Is unbelief a sin? Then Jesus died to pay its debt. If He did not die for the sin of unbelief, then He did not die for all sins.
Who is guilty of unbelief? Everyone who is not saved. If unbelief were the unforgivable sin, then no one could be saved, because they could never be forgiven of the unforgivable sin.
Jesus did not put conditions or limitations on the bounds of the unforgivable sin. He said the one who commits this sin will not be forgiven in this world, or the next. Period. Jesus identified exactly what this sin is: Attributing the power of the Holy Spirit to Satan. One cannot do so unless one knows the difference. Therefore an unsaved person cannot really commit this sin, because it is committed with knowledge of what one is doing and saying. The Pharisees knew
There is so much false teaching about this subject, and it doesn't even make sense. Jesus addressed this, and as I have shown, identified exactly what this sin was, and is. It is NOT rejecting Christ, for we all rejected Him before we received Him. It is not even rejecting the God's Grace via Holy Spirit, for we all resisted Him before we yielded to Him.
The unforgivable sin has always and only been to attribute the works and power of the Holy Spirit to Satan, to say that the works of the Holy Spirit were done by the power of Satan.
That action, which cannot be done in ignorance, is a one-way ticket to Hell.
Jas 1:2-4 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. But let endurance have its perfect work, that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing.
Be exalted, O God, above the heavens! Let your glory be over all the earth! (Psa 57:5)
We didn't believe in order to be born again, we were born again in order to believe.
Here is the main divergence post:
I said:↑
Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is rejecting the grace that God has offered....so the unpardonable sin is never accepting Christ in your life time.
nobodysfool said:
I'm sorry, but I must disagree with you on this. Here's why:
(20) Then he went home, and the crowd gathered again, so that they could not even eat. (21) And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, "He is out of his mind." (22) And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, "He is possessed by Beelzebul," and "by the prince of demons he casts out the demons."
(23) And he called them to him and said to them in parables, "How can Satan cast out Satan? (24) If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. (25) And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. (26) And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end. (27) But no one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.
(28) "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, (29) but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"-- (30) for they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."
Mat 12:22-37 Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. (23) And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of David?" (24) But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons."
(25) Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. (26) And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? (27) And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. (28) But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. (29) Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. (30) Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. (31) Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. (32) And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
These two passages make it very clear exactly what Jesus was saying, and what He meant. He was accused of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub, aka Satan. Jesus' response was pointed, direct, and certain. He identified blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as a sin which would never be forgiven. What was that blasphemy? Calling the power of the Holy Spirit to be the power of Satan.
That is not simple unbelief. The Pharisees knew what Jesus was doing, and by what power He was doing it. They themselves occasionally performed exorcisms, and none of them would have invoked the power of Satan to do so. So, they knew whose power it was, and they deliberately and knowingly said it was the power of Satan, as part of their desire to discredit Jesus.
That shows us several things: first, a person can speak against the Son of God, and it will be forgiven. Jesus said so. A person can speak against the Father, and it will be forgiven. But, if someone knowingly calls the power of the Holy Spirit to be the power of Satan, they will NEVER be forgiven. EVER. Jesus said so.
Now, for some reason, people want to turn the unforgivable sin into anything but what Jesus called it. They want to call it unbelief. And in the same breath they will argue that Jesus died for all the sins of all the people. Is unbelief a sin? Then Jesus died to pay its debt. If He did not die for the sin of unbelief, then He did not die for all sins.
Who is guilty of unbelief? Everyone who is not saved. If unbelief were the unforgivable sin, then no one could be saved, because they could never be forgiven of the unforgivable sin.
Jesus did not put conditions or limitations on the bounds of the unforgivable sin. He said the one who commits this sin will not be forgiven in this world, or the next. Period. Jesus identified exactly what this sin is: Attributing the power of the Holy Spirit to Satan. One cannot do so unless one knows the difference. Therefore an unsaved person cannot really commit this sin, because it is committed with knowledge of what one is doing and saying. The Pharisees knew
There is so much false teaching about this subject, and it doesn't even make sense. Jesus addressed this, and as I have shown, identified exactly what this sin was, and is. It is NOT rejecting Christ, for we all rejected Him before we received Him. It is not even rejecting the God's Grace via Holy Spirit, for we all resisted Him before we yielded to Him.
The unforgivable sin has always and only been to attribute the works and power of the Holy Spirit to Satan, to say that the works of the Holy Spirit were done by the power of Satan.
That action, which cannot be done in ignorance, is a one-way ticket to Hell.
Jas 1:2-4 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. But let endurance have its perfect work, that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing.
Be exalted, O God, above the heavens! Let your glory be over all the earth! (Psa 57:5)
We didn't believe in order to be born again, we were born again in order to believe.