Unclean Sky Watchers

[daq]

Leviticus 11:13-19 KJV
13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15 Every raven after his kind;
16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Deuteronomy 14:11-18 KJV
11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14 And every raven after his kind,
15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Source texts for the understanding which follows herein below:

Matthew 13:3-4 KJV
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

Matthew 13:18-19 KJV
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Mark 4:3-4 KJV
3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

Mark 4:14-15 KJV
14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luke 8:4-5 KJV
4 And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable:
5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

Luke 8:11-12 KJV
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

So the unclean flyers of the heavens are the Wicked, the Devil, and the Satan.

Matthew 12:43-45 KJV
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

So when the unclean spirit is cast out of the man he goes and associates unto himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they come to his former house which is the man, and enter therein, and dwell there, and thus the eighth is of the seven, (Rev 17:11), for the first which was cast out returns with seven others, and the first is therefore also the eighth, (as Tubal-Qain brings forth Qain, according to the pattern from the beginning).

 

[daq]

Henok 6–8 [some text based on Aramaic Qumran fragments (J.T. Milik)]
[01] It came to pass when the adam began to multiply on the face of the adamah, and daughters were produced of them, that the sons of Elohim saw that they were fair:
[02] And they became enamored with them, and said one to another, Let us go take wives from among the daughters of the adam, of all we choose, and produce offspring.
[03] And Shemihaza their captain said to them, I fear that perhaps you may not entirely follow through with this deed, and that I alone will suffer for so great a transgression.
[04] And they all answered, saying, Let us all swear an oath, and bind one another with execrations, that we will not change our intention and will execute this undertaking.
[05] And they all swore together, and bound one another with mutual execrations, to fully execute their intended undertaking.
[06] And they were in all two hundred, and they descended in the days of Yared upon the summit of mount Hermon.
[07] And they called the name thereof Hermon: for upon that mountain they swore the oath and bound one another with mutual execrations.
[08] And these are the names of their chiefs: Shemihaza their captain, Artakoph, Ramatel, Kokabel, Raamel, Danel, Zikel, Barakel, Tamel, Hazael, Hermoni, Matarel, Ananel, Satuwel, Shemeshel, Saharel, Tummel, Thorel, Yomel, Yharel.
[09] These are the chiefs of tens, Elim over the two hundred Watchers altogether, and the whole two hundred took unto themselves wives from all whichever they chose.
[10] And they began to enter into them, and defiled themselves with them, teaching them sorcery, and spell-binding, and splicing of roots, and secrets concerning herbs:
[11] And the daughters of the adam conceived, and produced Gibborim, and when they mounted up in flight, (4Q530), their altitude was three thousand cubits, (which is to say, upon the face of the raqiya of the shamayim, as the flyers of the shamayim).
[12] And the Gibborim began to devour all the labors of the adam: and when the eretz was no longer able to sustain them, they turned against the adam to devour them.
[13] And they began to sin against birds, and against cattle, and against the roamers, and against the sea dragons, and to consume their flesh and drink their blood.
[14] Moreover Hazael taught the making of swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and metallurgy, and the art of fabricating metals, and antimony mirrors, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the painting of the eyelids, and all manner of precious stones, and the making of coloring dyes.
[15] And the world was altered, and there was great impiety and fornication: and the adam were led astray, and all their ways became corrupted.
[16] Shemihaza taught spell binding and root cuttings: Hermoni taught the reversal of spell binding: Barakel taught the signs of thunder: Kokabel taught the signs of the stars:
[17] Zikel taught the signs of lightrays: [lightning] Artakoph taught the signs of the eretz: Shemeshel taught the signs of the sun: and Saharel taught the signs of the moon.
[18] And the eretz, being destroyed, laid accusation against the lawless: for as one part of the adam perished, they cried out, and the voice of their cry ascended to the shamayim.

In verse eight we have twenty names of the fallen Watchers, and the first one mentioned is Shemihaza, who is their leader, and each one is a captain over ten, meaning that the twenty, who are called Elim, (mighty ones), bear rule over the whole two hundred fallen Watchers, (verse nine). However another name is added in Henok 10:4, the name Azazel, which is spoken by the Most High when the Malak Raphael is commanded to "Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the [outer] darkness", (re: Matthew 22:13), and thus we have a total of twenty-one names for the fallen Watchers in Sefer Henok.

The same thing also happens with the unclean flyers of the shamayim in the two companion passages of the Torah. Leviticus contains a total of twenty kinds, and the most vicious and stealthy predators are separated by what is apparently a note in the text, the word bat or bath, (בת), which generally means a daughter, but in this case we have both male and female names mingled together in the text so that it does not appear to be signifying that the second group are female or daughters.

The word bath also appears in the Deuteronomy passage, at the same place in the text, which appears to mark a separation between the most rapacious predators and the remainder which follow them in the text. Some translators render the word bath in translation but most do not. I have included this word in italics to mark the separation and have separated the quotes at those verses in each passage.

In the Leviticus passage we find the six most rapacious flyers in the first group, and fourteen in the second group, for a total of twenty names. In the Deuteronomy passage we find seven names in the first group, and fourteen in the second group, for a total of twenty-one names. However when we put all the names together from the two first groups in each passage we actually have eight different names for the most powerful and vicious predatory flyers of the heavens.

Leviticus 11:13-15
13 And these shall you detest among the flyers, they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the Nesher, [1] and the Peres, [2] and the Ozniyah, [3]
14 And the Daah, [4] and the Ayah [5] after his kind,
15 Every Oreb [6] after his kind.

Leviticus 11:16-19
16 And bath the Yaanah, [1] and the Tachmas, [2] and the Shachaph, [3] and the Netz [4] after his kind,
17 And the Kos, [5] and the Shalak, [6] and the Yanshuph, [7]
18 And the Tanshemeth, [8] and the Qaath, [9] and the Racham, [10]
19 And the Hasidah, [11] the Anaphah [12] after her kind, and the Dukiphath, [13] and the Ataleph [14].

Deuteronomy 14:11-14
11 Of every clean bird you may consume:
12 But these are they from which you shall not consume: the Nesher, [1] and the Peres, [2] and the Ozniyah, [3]
13 And the Raah, [4] and the Ayah, [5] and the Dayah [6] after his kind,
14 And every Oreb [7] after his kind.

Deuteronomy 14:15-18
15 And bath the Yaanah, [1] and the Tachmas, [2] and the Shachaph, [3] and the Netz [4] after his kind,
16 The Kos, [5] and the Yanshuph, [6] and the Tanshemeth, [7]
17 And the Qaath, [8] and the Rachamah, [9] and the Shalak, [10]
18 And the Hasidah, [11] and the Anaphah [12] after her kind, and the Dukiphath, [13] and the Ataleph [14].

The First Group:

Leviticus 11:13-15
Nesher, Peres, Ozniyah, Daah, Ayah, Oreb.

Deuteronomy 14:12-14
Nesher, Peres, Ozniyah, Raah, Ayah, Dayah, Oreb.

And the Eighth is of the Seven ~ Revelation 17:11

Nesher, Peres, Ozniyah, Daah, Raah, Ayah, Dayah, Oreb.

Every Oreb after its kind ~ Legion

 

[daq]

The entire Epistle of Yhudah is a dissertation on the Watchers portion of Sefer Henok.

YHUDAH
[01] Yhudah, a servant of Ι̅Η Χ̅Ρ, and brother of Yakob:
[02] To those beloved in the Father Θ̅Ω, preserved and called of Ι̅Η Χ̅Ρ, mercy unto you, and peace and love be multiplied.
[03] Beloved, doing all diligence to write unto you concerning our common salvation, I have a necessity to write unto you, and to exhort you, that you should earnestly contend for the faithfulness that was one time delivered to the holy ones.
[04] For there are certain manfaced-ανθρωποι having entered in alongside by stealth, those of ancient time previously written unto this condemnation, [Henok 6:7, Genesis 6:4] impious ones, perverting the grace of our του Θ̅Υ into wantonness, disavowing the only Master and our τον Κ̅Ν Ι̅Η Χ̅Ρ.
[05] I am resolved therefore to put you in remembrance: for you know that at one time He who delivered His people out of the land of Mitzraim, the second time destroyed those that believed not.
[06] Also the malakim which guarded not their principality, but left their own habitation, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness to the judgment of the great day:
[07] Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and turning aside after strange flesh, having been set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of everlasting fire.
[08] However these dreamers in like manner contaminate the flesh, despise dominion, and blaspheme the glorious.
[09] Moreover Mikael the Malak Gadol, when contending with the Devil, disputing concerning the body of Mosheh, ventured not to bring against him a railing accusation, but said, Κ̅C rebuke you.
[10] But these blaspheme what they know not, and what they understand naturally, as irrational creatures: by these things they are utterly corrupted.
[11] Woe unto them: for they departed in the way of Kain, and rushed forth after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Korah.
[12] These are hidden crags feasting together with you in your love-feasts, shepherds feeding themselves without fear, clouds without water carried along by the winds,
[13] Autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots, fierce waves of the sea foaming out their own shame,
[14] Wandering stars for whom the gloom of the darkness is reserved into the olam.
[15] Moreover Henok the seventh from Adam also prophesied against these, saying,
[16] Behold, Κ̅C comes with His myriads of holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the impious for all their impious deeds they have impiously committed,
[17] And for all the fierceness which the impious sinners have spoken against Him [Henok 1:9].
[18] These are murmurers, complainers walking after their own lusts, and their mouths speaking swelling admiration unto countenances [of men] for the sake of advantage.
[19] But you, beloved, remember the sayings previously spoken by the apostles of our του Κ̅Υ Ι̅Η Χ̅Ρ.
[20] They told you that there shall be mockers in the final time, walking after their own impious lusts: the same are the ones separating naturally, not having the Spirit.
[21] But you, beloved, build up yourselves in your holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit.
[22] Guard yourselves in the love of Θ̅Υ, looking for the mercy of our του Κ̅Υ Ι̅Η Χ̅Ρ into life everlasting.
[23] And on some who are in doubt have mercy, others deliver with fear, snatching them out of the fire:
[24] And on others have mercy with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
[25] And to the One who is able to guard you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the Presence of His glory with exceeding joy:
[26] To the only Θ̅Ω, our Savior by way of Ι̅Η Χ̅Ρ our του Κ̅Υ, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, from olam and into the olamim. Amen.

 

[BobRyan]

Leviticus 11:13-19 KJV
13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15 Every raven after his kind;
16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Deuteronomy 14:11-18 KJV
11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14 And every raven after his kind,
15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

...

Luke 8:11-12 KJV
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

So the unclean flyers of the heavens are the Wicked, the Devil, and the Satan.

Mixing Lev 11 with Luke 8 is mixing contexts to an extreme level.

in Lev 11 the context is what can be eaten as food.

In Luke 8 the context is the gospel and the issue of the devil taking gospel seed away from the would-be hearers.

 

[daq]

Mixing Lev 11 with Luke 8 is mixing contexts to an extreme level.

We disagree because of what the Master himself says about it:

..."and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it"...
..."Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved"...

He is expounding the Torah.

..."And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls"...

in Lev 11 the context is what can be eaten as food.

Every flyer of the heavens/sky/air is called a living soul, (nephesh chayah), Genesis 2:19.
Honor the commandment without adding to it or diminishing from it:
Exodus 20:13 - "You shall not murder/kill", (ratsach), period.

In Luke 8 the context is the gospel and the issue of the devil taking gospel seed away from the would-be hearers.

The Gospel was preached to Yisrael, but those whose carcasses fell in the wilderness neither perceived, nor understood, nor believed it, (Hebrews 4:1-2). Why? Because the Seed, which is the Logos, (Mark 4:14), was taken from them when it fell by the wayside upon the compacted, trodden down, soil of the hardened heart, Matthew 13:4, Mark 4:4 , Luke 8:5.

To understand the spiritual and supernal way of above is to hear (understand) the Logos.

 

[BobRyan]

We disagree because of what the Master himself says about it:

..."and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it"...
..."Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved"...

Jesus was not quoting anything from Lev 11 or any OT text. He was giving a parable about spreading the gospel and the kingdom of God in that example.

Mixing contexts does not work

 

[daq]

Jesus was not quoting anything from Lev 11 or any OT text. He was giving a parable about spreading the gospel and the kingdom of God in that example.

Mixing contexts does not work

Interpretation:

I do not accept that logos-reasoning because it does not work in my paradigm.

Leviticus 11:13-15
13 And these shall you detest among the flyers, they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the Nesher, [1] and the Peres, [2] and the Ozniyah, [3]
14 And the Daah, [4] and the Ayah [5] after his kind,
15 Every Oreb [6] after his kind.

Leviticus 11:16-19
16 And bath the Yaanah, [1] and the Tachmas, [2] and the Shachaph, [3] and the Netz [4] after his kind,
17 And the Kos, [5] and the Shalak, [6] and the Yanshuph, [7]
18 And the Tanshemeth, [8] and the Qaath, [9] and the Racham, [10]
19 And the Hasidah, [11] the Anaphah [12] after her kind, and the Dukiphath, [13] and the Ataleph [14].

Deuteronomy 14:11-14
11 Of every clean bird you may consume:
12 But these are they from which you shall not consume: the Nesher, [1] and the Peres, [2] and the Ozniyah, [3]
13 And the Raah, [4] and the Ayah, [5] and the Dayah [6] after his kind,
14 And every Oreb [7] after his kind.

Deuteronomy 14:15-18
15 And bath the Yaanah, [1] and the Tachmas, [2] and the Shachaph, [3] and the Netz [4] after his kind,
16 The Kos, [5] and the Yanshuph, [6] and the Tanshemeth, [7]
17 And the Qaath, [8] and the Rachamah, [9] and the Shalak, [10]
18 And the Hasidah, [11] and the Anaphah [12] after her kind, and the Dukiphath, [13] and the Ataleph [14].

The First Group:

Leviticus 11:13-15
Nesher, Peres, Ozniyah, Daah, Ayah, Oreb.

Deuteronomy 14:12-14
Nesher, Peres, Ozniyah, Raah, Ayah, Dayah, Oreb.

And the Eighth is of the Seven ~ Revelation 17:11

Nesher, Peres, Ozniyah, Daah, Raah, Ayah, Dayah, Oreb.

Every Oreb after its kind ~ Legion

Isaiah 34 KJV
1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.
2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. [Rev 6:13-14]
5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.
7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
11 But the cormorant [Qaath, Lev 11:18, Dt 14:17] and the bittern shall possess it; the owl [Yanshuph, Lev 11:17, Dt 14:16] also and the raven [Oreb, Lev11:15, Dt 14:14] shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.
12 They shall call the nobles thereof to the kingdom, but none shall be there, and all her princes shall be nothing.
13 And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls [bath, Lev 11:16, Dt 14:15].
14 The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr [Lev 17:7, sa'iyr he-goat (a demon)] shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl [lilith (a demon)] also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.
15 There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures [Dayah, Dt 14:13] also be gathered, every one with her mate.
16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
17 And he hath cast the lot for them, and his hand hath divided it unto them by line: [Parable of the Sower] they shall possess it for ever, from generation to generation shall they dwell therein.

In Isa 34:17, the line of their allotment is the line divided by the sower as he sows. The seed of the sower which falls by the wayside upon the compacted-trodden down soil is allotted to the unclean flyers of the heavens, (a.k.a. birds or fowls of the air). The soil is the adamah-soil of the heart, whether for the bad, as in compacted or hardened, or stony, or full of thorns and thistles: or whether for the good, as in the cleansed and tilled (virgin) soil of the heart from which the Wicked, the Devil, and the Satan cannot steal the Seed of the Logos when it is sown. The Master has expounded these things in the Parable of the Sower.

The Torah-Word of Elohim is spiritual, (Rom 7:14).

 

[BobRyan]

We disagree because of what the Master himself says about it:

..."and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it"...
..."Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved"...

Jesus was not quoting anything from Lev 11 or any OT text. He was giving a parable about spreading the gospel and the kingdom of God in that example.

Mixing contexts does not work

Interpretation:

I do not accept that logos-reasoning because it does not work in my paradigm.

looks like wishful thinking.

No Bible scholars that we know of speculate that the parable of the sowers that SAYS it is about the gospel and the kingdom of God -- is really about eating unclean birds, or about demons eating unclean animals or about people eating them. I think we all know it.

Luke 8:

Parable of the Sower​

4 Now when a large crowd was coming together, and those from the various cities were journeying to Him, He spoke by way of a parable: 5 “The sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed, some fell beside the road, and it was trampled underfoot, and the birds of the sky ate it up. 6 Other seed fell on rocky soil, and when it came up, it withered away because it had no moisture. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns; and the thorns grew up with it and choked it out. 8 And yet other seed fell into the good soil, and grew up, and produced a crop a hundred times as much.” As He said these things, He would call out, “The one who has ears to hear, let him hear.”


9 Now His disciples began asking Him what this parable meant. 10 And He said, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest they are told in parables, so that while seeing they may not see, and while hearing they may not understand.

11 “Now this is the parable: the seed is the word of God. 12 And those beside the road are the ones who have heard, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky soil are the ones who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and yet these do not have a firm root; they believe for a while, and in a time of temptation they fall away. 14 And the seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked by worries, riches, and pleasures of this life, and they bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word with a good and virtuous heart, and hold it firmly, and produce fruit with perseverance.

 

[daq]

Jesus was not quoting anything from Lev 11 or any OT text. He was giving a parable about spreading the gospel and the kingdom of God in that example.

Mixing contexts does not work

looks like wishful thinking.

No Bible scholars that we know of speculate that the parable of the sowers that SAYS it is about the gospel and the kingdom of God -- is really about eating unclean birds, or about demons eating unclean animals or about people eating them. I think we all know it.

Luke 8:

Parable of the Sower​

4 Now when a large crowd was coming together, and those from the various cities were journeying to Him, He spoke by way of a parable: 5 “The sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed, some fell beside the road, and it was trampled underfoot, and the birds of the sky ate it up. 6 Other seed fell on rocky soil, and when it came up, it withered away because it had no moisture. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns; and the thorns grew up with it and choked it out. 8 And yet other seed fell into the good soil, and grew up, and produced a crop a hundred times as much.” As He said these things, He would call out, “The one who has ears to hear, let him hear.”


9 Now His disciples began asking Him what this parable meant. 10 And He said, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest they are told in parables, so that while seeing they may not see, and while hearing they may not understand.

11 “Now this is the parable: the seed is the word of God. 12 And those beside the road are the ones who have heard, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky soil are the ones who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and yet these do not have a firm root; they believe for a while, and in a time of temptation they fall away. 14 And the seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked by worries, riches, and pleasures of this life, and they bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word with a good and virtuous heart, and hold it firmly, and produce fruit with perseverance.

Strange that you are not able to recognize that the passage you quote says the same I have said.

Luke 8:5
..."as he sowed, some fell beside the road, and it was trampled underfoot, and the birds of the sky ate it up"...

Luke 8:11
..."those beside the road are the ones who have heard, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart"...

You cannot see-perceive that in this discourse the devil corresponds to the birds of the sky? It's right there in front of you but you chose to focus on something else. However this is really not all as relevant concerning the argument against your position since you side-stepped what was already posted concerning Exodus 20:13, one of the Ten Commandments, which as far as I know, all SDA's claim to uphold and observe.

Again, every flyer of the heavens is called a living soul, (נפש חיה, nephesh chayah), and the same exact terminology is used concerning the first man in Gen 2:7 as is used in Gen 2:19 for "every fowl of the air", (KJV), and they were not formed from the eretz but from the adamah-soil, just as the first man in Gen 2:7.

Genesis 2:7 KJV
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul [נפש חיה].

Genesis 2:19 KJV
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, [נפש חיה] that was the name thereof.

It doesn't matter if your translation changes living soul to living creature, like the KJV quote above, in order to make it more palatable for you: it still says what it says in the Hebrew text, living soul. So then, are you saying that it is okay to murder/kill living souls as long as they are not human living souls and rather only animals and birds that are living souls?

Again: please explain your scripture reasoning for adding that stipulation into what is written in Exodus 20:13 if that is what you believe. What scripture do you know of that says it is okay for you to override Exodus 20:13, and insert your stipulation into it, since as an SDA you surely claim that you keep and observe the Ten Commandments. It says what it says, and you know full well that the Most High spoke those words and added no more: (I've seen you quote that passage before), what therefore gives you the right to add more to it? Where does it say, "You shall not murder/kill humans"? or "You can murder/kill birds and animals for food: but you shall not murder/kill humans"?

The closest you may whittle it down is to perhaps say that in Exo 20:13, ratsach, (רצח), only means murder and not killing, but then you still have the same problem because you can only murder something that is a living soul: for to kill a living soul is to extinguish a living breathing intellect with a beating heart, (and the soul is in the blood), regardless of how inferior that intellect may be to the human mind. It isn't murder to kill a plant, or a fruit, or a vegetable. This moreover is what tells us, (and Noah), which animals are clean or unclean: unclean animals and birds typically kill and eat other animals and birds for food.

This is all common sense but it all refutes your paradigm and what you have been taught by men, and yet there it is, right there in the Ten Commandments which you claim to uphold and observe: You shall not murder/kill. Period. No adding or subtracting permitted. And if that commandment disqualifies your theory about animal sacrifices and the so-called dietary laws then the sacrifices and dietary laws do not pertain to what you have imagined them to be. I have the Torah, Prophets, Psalms, and the Testimony of the Meshiah and his Apostles in their writings in support of what I believe regarding the sacrifices and their meaning. You have the Torah, Prophets, Psalms, and the Testimony of the Meshiah and his Apostles in their writings refuting your doctrine regarding those same sacrifices.

 

[Terri Dactyl]

And if that commandment disqualifies your theory about animal sacrifices and the so-called dietary laws then the sacrifices and dietary laws do not pertain to what you have imagined them to be

What?

 

[daq]

What?

The commandment in Exodus 20:13, לא תרצח׃.

What does ratsach (רצח) mean?

I see that you are an SDA, so of course I fully understand that you profess to uphold and keep at least the Ten Commandments, and I know that you know this is one of them: so then, please explain this word and the commandment according to the scripture, without adding to it or diminishing from it.