Ukraine is a bountiful research opportunity. (Lab Rats)

[RocksInMyHead]

Depends on your point of view.

You better look again. Or is it any country that joins the EU like Turkey that is allowed in.

See the NATO charter: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm

Turkey is considered part of Europe as it lies partly in Europe and partly in Asia.

Have you thought of the reason why Putin waited so long, diplomatic reasons perhaps? I remember the talk of neutrality way before 2022 'Russian Aggression".

What diplomatic measures did Russia take between 2014 and 2022?

 

[Hans Blaster]

You better look again. Or is it any country that joins the EU like Turkey that is allowed in.

Turkey is also in Europe. (It has tried and been rejected for decades to join the EU. There are no near-term prospect for Turkey to join the EU.)

 

[wing2000]

For peace on the globe a neutral state. We should not work with any nation on the spread of NATO if it threatens another country and next will be China.

Say, if Putin decides he want's Alaska back, should we let him have it for "world peace"?

 

[Laodicean60]

See the NATO charter: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm

Open door policy?

What diplomatic measures did Russia take between 2014 and 2022?

If NATO or the USA wanted peace and not expansion they would have negotiated with Putin on his demands before the war. We are beating a dead horse again because we disagree about NATO expansion and the tension that is created. Peace Out

 

[Hans Blaster]

If NATO or the USA wanted peace and not expansion they would have negotiated with Putin on his demands before the war. We are beating a dead horse again because we disagree about NATO expansion and the tension that is created. Peace Out

It wouldn't have mattered because Russia's motivations to finish invading Ukraine in 2022 weren't about NATO expansion. Their own internal public propaganda tells us that.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Open door policy?

The Open Door policy refers to Article 10 of the NATO treaty:

Article 10​

The Parties may, by unanimous agreement, invite any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area to accede to this Treaty. Any State so invited may become a Party to the Treaty by depositing its instrument of accession with the Government of the United States of America. The Government of the United States of America will inform each of the Parties of the deposit of each such instrument of accession.

In order to invite a country outside of Europe to NATO, the NATO treaty would first have to be amended to remove the word "European" from Article 10.

If NATO or the USA wanted peace and not expansion they would have negotiated with Putin on his demands before the war. We are beating a dead horse again because we disagree about NATO expansion and the tension that is created. Peace Out

"Peace" and "NATO expansion" are not mutually exclusive concepts. I don't disagree that NATO's expansion has caused tension with Russia - what I disagree with is the idea that we should allow Russia's insecurities to dictate our foreign policy.

 

[Laodicean60]

what I disagree with is the idea that we should allow Russia's insecurities to dictate our foreign policy.

That's why we have Ukrainian lab rats, don't forget the Chinese are next because of our insecurities.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

That's why we have Ukrainian lab rats, don't forget the Chinese are next because of our insecurities.

Yes, the Ukrainians are "lab rats" because they dared to want to break out of the Russian sphere of influence, and NATO didn't do the "responsible" thing and shove them back in. SMDH.

Again, we're back to the treatment of Ukraine as a Russian puppet rather than an independent nation. A reminder that Russia is a signatory to the UN charter, which requires members to solve disputes diplomatically and guarantees the sovereignty of nations.

 

[Hans Blaster]

That's why we have Ukrainian lab rats, don't forget the Chinese are next because of our insecurities.

Is NATO going to "surround" China too?

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

If NATO or the USA wanted peace and not expansion they would have negotiated with Putin on his demands before the war. We are beating a dead horse again because we disagree about NATO expansion and the tension that is created. Peace Out

If Russia wanted peace and not expansion they could, you know, just not invade sovereign countries.

But I guess Putin needed his lebensraum.

 

[Hans Blaster]

If Russia wanted peace and not expansion they could, you know, just not invade sovereign countries.

But I guess Putin needed his lebensraum.

The last hurdle for Sweden fell today. Hungary ratified Sweden's entry into NATO.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

The last hurdle for Sweden fell today. Hungary ratified Sweden's entry into NATO.

Wonderful. Thanks to Putin's aggression, the Baltic Sea is now completely surrounded by NATO countries

 

[Hans Blaster]

Wonderful. Thanks to Putin's aggression, the Baltic Sea is now completely surrounded by NATO countries

It's a NATO lake with a small Russian lot on the shores...

 

[BCP1928]

Depends on your point of view.

Do you have any reason to think that NATO has ever contemplated an invasion of Russia?

Have you thought of the reason why Putin waited so long, diplomatic reasons perhaps? I remember the talk of neutrality way before 2022 'Russian Aggression".

Inability to secure a puppet government in Ukraine.

 

[Gene2memE]

Not yet. Do you remember India was invited to join NATO? Their leaders are smart and want to maintain peace and stability.

No, I don't. Because India wasn't invited to join NATO.

What happened was that the US Congressional Committee on the Chinese Communist Party released a report in 2023 that said India should be invited to be a member of the NATO Plus states. A member of NATO Plus is not a formal member of the NATO alliance**.

The committee then reiterated this in a set of policy recommendations (about Taiwan/China, not India) released a month ahead of Modhi's June 2023 visit to the US.

The report and subsequent policy recommendation got lots of attention in Chinese and Indian news media. Which led to lots of ill-informed journalists asking dumb questions like "Is India going to join NATO?".

To which various Indian politicians replied "India capable of countering Chinese aggression" and "the NATO template does not apply to India". Which is understandable, as both those things are (at least somewhat) true. But the answers were inadvertently misleading, as it made it appear that India had been invited to join NATO.


**NATO Plus is a loose security arrangement, mostly involving information sharing and efforts towards equipment standardisation. Current participating members are Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Israel and Israel. NATO also has partnerships with Morocco, Pakistan, Iraq and a couple other states that I can't recall at the moment.

 

[Gene2memE]

Do you have any reason to think that NATO has ever contemplated an invasion of Russia?

Probably. That's what general staff officers do. Whether those plans are serious or are ever intended to be acted on is another matter.

I know that as of 2015, the US was still getting war college graduates to plan an invasion of Canada.

 

[BCP1928]

Probably. That's what general staff officers do. Whether those plans are serious or are ever intended to be acted on is another matter.

I know that as of 2015, the US was still getting war college graduates to plan an invasion of Canada.

I'm sure Canada regarded that as a serious threat to the neutrality of Greenland.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Probably. That's what general staff officers do. Whether those plans are serious or are ever intended to be acted on is another matter.

I know that as of 2015, the US was still getting war college graduates to plan an invasion of Canada.

Our last invasion of Canada went like it was planned by students.