U.S. Prepares For 1,000th Execution Since 1976

[PACKY]

Does pro-life end when one is born?


I am rather conservative in my views
I detest the Death penalty.....sin besets sin
We cant make life therefore we shouldnt take it.
Like on this earth is short compared to eternity, let us not forget the words of our father in heaven "Vengeance is mine sayeth the lord".

 

[imind]

i have never read scripture that tells us to kill our sinners, and have only come across the contrary.

see romans 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

and james 4:12
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

if we need to put these people away to ensure the safety of others, fine. but we should not be killing them, period.

 

[praying]

i have never read scripture that tells us to kill our sinners, and have only come across the contrary.

Well quite simply then you have not read all of scripture.

 

[Billnew]

Maybe our prisons should look more like our dog pounds,
a chain fence around the door to the cell. they can get outside any time they want but can't harm anyone(including each other.)

Their whole world being a 10'x10' cell, with a 10'x10' chainlink fence outside.
To prevent the weak murders from being hurt by the stronger murders we could put up
concrete walls between the sides that connect.

As I stated the death penalty should be the extreme punishment limited to the worst cases.

How about we look at the other side of the story
How about a post;

U.S. morns the victims of a thousand murders, the 1200-2500 victims of these
monsters. Because the majority of murders didn't just kill once.

Oh and for those Christians that wonder how Christians can support the death penalty?
We take the old with the new, the good with the bad.
Try reading the Old testiment. Jesus didn't throw out the old testiment, He gave some new interpretations but punishing people crimes, people are responsible for their actions.
How can we execute with love? How can Jesus send one of his lambs to hell?
We choose our path, and we all face the concequences of our actions. Even when our goverment trys to limit this as much as possible.
Simple rule for death penalty:
If they kill more then one person, or take enjoyment from the killing of another person,
and more then one person not linked to the criminal witnesses the act, they should be executed. (if not witnessed, a propoderance of eveidence)IE. beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Helo]

if we need to put these people away to ensure the safety of others, fine. but we should not be killing them, period.

Then YOU pay for it

 

[praying]

Then YOU pay for it

Then you pay for the death penalty process which infinitely more expensive.

 

[Helo]

Then you pay for the death penalyt process which infinitely more expensive.

If I get to re-form it, then Ill gladly pay for it. Its so expensive now because we're too fracking squeamish and we wont just blow the guy away and be done with it

 

[praying]

If I get to re-form it, then Ill gladly pay for it. Its so expensive now because we're too fracking squeamish and we wont just blow the guy away and be done with it

Well God willing you will not get to reform with that mindset.

 

[Helo]

Well God willing you will not get to reform with that mindset.

I hope I will. My system is MUCH more effective

 

[praying]

I hope I will. My system is MUCH more effective

I am not in favor of a more effective way of killing people, faster and cheaper. I am not in favor killing people at all.

 

[PACKY]

Maybe our prisons should look more like our dog pounds,
a chain fence around the door to the cell. they can get outside any time they want but can't harm anyone(including each other.)

Their whole world being a 10'x10' cell, with a 10'x10' chainlink fence outside.
To prevent the weak murders from being hurt by the stronger murders we could put up
concrete walls between the sides that connect.

As I stated the death penalty should be the extreme punishment limited to the worst cases.

How about we look at the other side of the story
How about a post;

U.S. morns the victims of a thousand murders, the 1200-2500 victims of these
monsters. Because the majority of murders didn't just kill once.

Oh and for those Christians that wonder how Christians can support the death penalty?
We take the old with the new, the good with the bad.
Try reading the Old testiment. Jesus didn't throw out the old testiment, He gave some new interpretations but punishing people crimes, people are responsible for their actions.
How can we execute with love? How can Jesus send one of his lambs to hell?
We choose our path, and we all face the concequences of our actions. Even when our goverment trys to limit this as much as possible.
Simple rule for death penalty:
If they kill more then one person, or take enjoyment from the killing of another person,
and more then one person not linked to the criminal witnesses the act, they should be executed. (if not witnessed, a propoderance of eveidence)IE. beyond a shadow of a doubt.

An Eye for an Eye

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[PACKY]

Let us ask this question....
Would jesus inject the lethal cocktail into a mans arms?
Would he pull the trigger?
would he pull the lever on the gallows?
Christians=the pursuit of christlike behavior.

WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?

 

[ChrisB803]

I personally am a proponent of the death penalty. I believe it should ONLY be used if irrefutable proof is in evidence and there is no doubt of the person's guilt. To allow the death penalty in cases where there can be any reasonable doubt of the person's guilt allows for the potential for the executioners to become guilty of murder themselves.

I also believe that Jesus, as well as the apostles, believed in the death penalty. The Bible story often used by people against the death penalty (John 7:52-8:12) does not hold up against review of the rest of scripture. While there is often times both in the old and new testament where mercy was shown to people guilty of sins punishable by death, that alone is not evidence that corporal punishment was not advocated by Jesus. In fact, he COULD NOT have sentenced the woman to death, because he would have broken Roman law. The Pharisees were trying to set a trap for Jesus by requesting that he pass judgement. Also, Jesus was not sent to condem the world, but that the world might be saved through him. It was not his time to be a judge, but it will be soon enough.

So what WAS Jesus' view on the death penalty? While he didn't clearly state that he was for or against it, one can draw a pretty clear picture from the following two verses:

Matthew 5:17
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matthew 26:52
52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

The apostles Paul and Peter also made clear statements regarding the established authority and their power to judge on this earth...

Romans 13:1-5
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience

1 Peter 2:13-14
13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

Without earthly punishment, chaos would reign. Certainly God is the ultimate judge, and in the end all will face Him. However, my point remains that the death penalty, if properly used, would reduce both crime and the costs involved in prosecuting them.

Which do you think is the more inhumane punishment: To determine a man or woman's unimpeachable guilt, then to execute them in a quick and painless manner? Or to sentence that same man or woman to a lifetime of living in a hellish and violent cage, with little to no hope of seeing freedom again?

 

[ChrisB803]

P.S. - Much of the verses and logic here can be found much better put and more in depth at the following web address:
http://web.telia.com/~u15509119/ny_sida_6.htm

 

[ChrisB803]

An Eye for an Eye

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

These principles apply, and SHOULD be followed, in the life of a typical person. Once someone has gone beyond this point, however, and either taken the life of another person, or ruined the innocence of someone else, then it is incumbent upon the legal system to rid society of that menace. The easiest and most dramatic way to do that is to eliminate that life entirely.

*POOF* No chance of that person re-committing another offence if released.

 

[Jacob4Jesus]

So what WAS Jesus' view on the death penalty? While he didn't clearly state that he was for or against it, one can draw a pretty clear picture from the following two verses:

Matthew 5:17
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matthew 26:52
52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

How do these verses say that Jesus supported the death penalty? It's not as clear as you think it is.

The first verse seems to be one that different people interpret differently. I have my own opinions, and I rarely see people agree on it. I won't give my opinions, but it in no way supports the death penalty.

The second verse does not say "If you kill someone, you should be killed." Because if you think about it from that perspective, then the people who are performing the executions are also living by the sword, so why shouldn't they die too? I think that verse is simply telling you not to live by violence, lest you die by it. Pure and simple, I go off to war and I get killed. It's more of a way of telling people not to be violent, because violent things could happen to you.

If you're going to say that Jesus was pro death penalty, you'll need stronger evidence than that.

 

[ChrisB803]

How do these verses say that Jesus supported the death penalty? It's not as clear as you think it is.

The first verse seems to be one that different people interpret differently. I have my own opinions, and I rarely see people agree on it. I won't give my opinions, but it in no way supports the death penalty.

The second verse does not say "If you kill someone, you should be killed." Because if you think about it from that perspective, then the people who are performing the executions are also living by the sword, so why shouldn't they die too? I think that verse is simply telling you not to live by violence, lest you die by it. Pure and simple, I go off to war and I get killed. It's more of a way of telling people not to be violent, because violent things could happen to you.

If you're going to say that Jesus was pro death penalty, you'll need stronger evidence than that.

I did clarify and say that the Bible does not clearly define his view. Likewise, however, there is no clear evidence to say that he was against the death penalty either. His law was grace, which to me means that while even a mass murdered on death row can repent and go to Heaven, the law still is in effect as it pertains to his punishment here on this earth. Remember Jesus also said if anyone caused a child to stumble, it would be better that a millstone be hung around his neck and he be cast in the sea (not an unusual form of punishment in the Roman and Greek world). One could easily see that statement supporting the death penalty.

I think when it comes down to it an objective person would have to fall on the side of supporting the death penalty. I will reiterate, however, that it should only be for either violent offenders, or sexual predators, and only when their guilt is known without a doubt (IE, confession, incontrovertable witnesses or hard and fast physical evidence).

Christ did preach humility and grace, but when it came down to it even he submitted himself to the death penalty, which was the law at the time. If he was completely against the death penalty, why would he have allowed himself to be subjected to it? That might seem a spurreous argument, but it's as good as anything I've seen from the anti-death penalty people on this thread.

 

[MaryS]

It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many posters here who are vehemently pro-life when it comes to abortion, and anti-life when it comes to capital punishment. There's a word for that, y'know. Hypocrisy.

It's a state's rights issue, just like abortion should be.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/state/
states without the death penalty:

Alaska
Hawaii
Iowa
Maine
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
North Dakota
Rhode Island
Vermont
West Virginia
Wisconsin

ALSO
- Dist. of Columbia

The New York (6/24) and Kansas (12/17) death penalty statutes were declared unconstitutional in 2004.

----------------------------------------

The first Supreme Court ruling that altered states' rights regarding the death penalty was in 1972 and not all of it was overturned in 1976, so the court's decision was partially upheld. I also noticed that Justice Byron White, one of the two original dissenters on the Roe v. Wade decision was among the five judges involved in setting strict limits on the death penalty in 1972.

1972, 5 to 4 decision
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furman_v._Georgia
The arbitrary and inconsistent imposition of the death penalty violates the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendment, and constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.

1976, 7 to 2 decision
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_v._Georgia
The imposition of the death penalty does not, automatically, violate the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendment, lower court's judgement is affirmed.

 

[praying]

It's a state's rights issue, just like abortion should be.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/state/
states without the death penalty:

Alaska
Hawaii
Iowa
Maine
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
North Dakota
Rhode Island
Vermont
West Virginia
Wisconsin

ALSO
- Dist. of Columbia

The New York (6/24) and Kansas (12/17) death penalty statutes were declared unconstitutional in 2004.

----------------------------------------

The first Supreme Court ruling that altered states' rights regarding the death penalty was in 1972 and not all of it was overturned in 1976, so the court's decision was partially upheld. I also noticed that Justice Byron White, one of the two original dissenters on the Roe v. Wade decision was among the five judges involved in setting strict limits on the death penalty in 1972.

1972, 5 to 4 decision
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furman_v._Georgia
The arbitrary and inconsistent imposition of the death penalty violates the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendment, and constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.

1976, 7 to 2 decision
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_v._Georgia
The imposition of the death penalty does not, automatically, violate the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendment, lower court's judgement is affirmed.

What does states rights have to do with the moral dichotomy of many pro-life (abortion) pro-death (death penalty) advocates?

 

[MaryS]

What does states rights have to do with the moral dichotomy of many pro-life (abortion) pro-death (death penalty) advocates?

I think it's quite hypocritical that the Supreme Court ruled against states' death penalties in 1972 and then ruled against any states' limits on abortion in 1973.
I wonder how that court would have ruled if someone had challenged God in our pledge or on our currency?