Two Aspects of Salvation (Believers Need to Be Concerned With):

[MaxPower]

I clarified to you that they are an unbeliever but they believe they are a believer in their own eyes because they claim to know God (even though they are an unbeliever in God’s eyes). I tried to explain it to you two times and you’re still not getting it. You are not listening to what I said and seeing you never took up my challenge in adequately explaining those verses I asked you to explain, it is time for me to move on from having any kind of discussion with you.

I get it, I even showed you how you can know, and used you and buzz as examples, Are you catholic because you responded to my response to buzz, did something i say get your attention? But anyway its been fun, thanks for all the accusations you have thrown around its been interesting, let me know if you want to answer what commandments you think you can keep that can give life? or what saves you? or what keeps you saved? Ill be around for a little bit If you want any of those things explained

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I get it, I even showed you how you can know, and used you and buzz as examples, Are you catholic because you responded to my response to buzz, did something i say get your attention? But anyway its been fun, thanks for all the accusations you have thrown around its been interesting, let me know if you want to answer what commandments you think you can keep that can give life? or what saves you? or what keeps you saved? Ill be around for a little bit If you want any of those things explained

I am not Catholic. I just believe the Bible alone.

My belief in the Bible in regards to Initial Salvation:

I believe we are first saved by a belief alone in Jesus as our Savior and believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. But then we need to enter into 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13, and Galatians 6:8-9 (Which is the next step in God’s plan of salvation).​

Catholic beliefs in regards to Initial Salvation:

Catholics believe baptism is how you initially get saved. They don’t see baptism as a work. I disagree with them strongly on this matter. Baptism is a work of faith, and it does not save (even in our Sanctification).​

My belief in the Bible regarding Sanctification:

However, God does require other things of us in our Sanctification as a part of salvation (1 John 3:23) (1 Timothy 5:8) (Luke 10:25-37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62).​

These last three pieces of Scripture you have not adequately explained using the context, and related cross references.

I am going to move on from our discussion if you don’t explain them. It’s just that simple.
I don’t have time to go back and forth if you don’t make good on your initial acceptance of my challenge.
There is no point in having any discourse with you if you won‘t properly deal with verses I believe you are rejecting.

May God bless you.

 

[MaxPower]

I just believe the Bible alone.

Well, you need to believe in the Jesus

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

My belief in the Bible in regards to Initial Salvation:

There is no such thing as initial Salvation, it is not a term in the bible, it is a term you made up because you don't know what salvation is

(Luke 10:25-37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62).
These last three pieces of Scripture you have not adequately explained using the context, and related cross references.

So you don't even want to answer basic questions, but you want a word for word commentary and cross-references including a parable on

​

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

​

​

Mathew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Luke 9:62

62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.


Do you actually have a question, or do you just want me to explain the whole bible to you ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, you need to believe in the Jesus

I believe in Jesus of the Bible just fine.
But the question you must ask yourself is:

Do you believe in the real Jesus of the Bible if you do not receive all of His words?​

I say this because most who believe as you do try to explain away the words of our Lord as applying to us in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:14-30, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, Luke 10:25-37.

Paul warns that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud, and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Right, I gave you these verses initially.
Again, if you don’t believe certain verses that Jesus told us (like the ones I mentioned above), you don’t believe in the real Jesus of the Bible.

Many believers (who no doubt thought they were saved) were told to depart from Jesus because they worked iniquity (sin) in Matthew 7:22-23. Jesus said He never knew them because they accepted a false Jesus, to begin with by the fact that they thought they could remain a sinner and be saved.

You told me that the fornicating man in 1 Corinthians 5 was saved. So this means you are one of those Christians who believe they can work iniquity or who turn God’s grace into lasciviousness (i.e., turn God’s grace into a license for immorality) (See again Jude 1:4).

But believers need to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 1:7).

There is no such thing as initial Salvation, it is not a term in the bible, it is a term you made up because you don't know what salvation is

There is no such word as the “Bible“ in the Bible. Yet you just used it. It is also a word somebody made up.

I am actually wondering about your education level. Do you even know what the word “Initial” even means?

Initial is defined as:

existing or occurring at the beginning.​

Again, if you don’t believe that a Christian can GET SAVED or there is not an Initial beginning point to their salvation then there are two possibilities you would have to believe in.

#1. You would have to believe in Universalism. Some Universalists believe that everyone is saved and there was never a point where a person is not saved. All people are saved, even Hitler. Or:​

#2. You believe that you are one of God’s chosen Elect and there was never a point in your life where you were never lost. Meaning, that the day you believed in Jesus did not change your right standing with God. You would have to believe that even before you knew about Jesus, you were still saved.​

I don’t get the impression you hold to these beliefs above.
So was there ever a point in your life where you GOT SAVED or where you were INITIALLY SAVED?
There was never a point in your life where you first got saved?
Do you believe you were always saved?
That is what you would have to believe if you deny Initial Salvation.

So you don't even want to answer basic questions, but you want a word for word commentary and cross-references including a parable on

​

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

​

​

Mathew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Luke 9:62

62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.


Do you actually have a question, or do you just want me to explain the whole bible to you ?

This is ridiculous. You don't even believe these verses above apply to you today because you hold to the popular candy-coated version of Christianity that undoes these words by our Lord.

You don't believe you have to love God and love your neighbor as parting of inheriting eternal life.
You don't believe you have to preach the gospel as a part of God's plan of salvation (Which would be a part of our Sanctification).

And yes. When you give a word-for-word commentary it is giving an exposition or explanation. Pastors do it all the time.
Even Jesus explained (or expounded) the resurrection from the Scriptures to two of His disciples on the road to Emmaus.

Luke 24:27
"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."

We are told in Scripture to follow Jesus, right? (See: 1 John 2:6).
You are not doing that. You are not explaining the Scriptures In your posting of the Word.

Why? Well, again I believe you avoid explaining certain verses. After all, you simply don't know how to explain them because you have accepted a popular version of Christianity today without being a good Berean to see whether those things are so or not. You just believed your Pastor(s) or some articles without truly looking at the whole counsel of God's Word.

I say this not to wound you, but I say this to challenge you to read the Scriptures and see if what they say aligns with what the Bible says. Right now, you are not able to explain simple verses I have given to you using the surrounding context and or cross references in other parts of the Bible. You are not using your own words to support these Scripture verses that would make sense out of your belief.

Note: There is a difference between the surrounding context of a verse or passage, and other cross references for it in other parts of the Bible. This is what you are failing to provide along with an explanation that is consistent with what they say.

Anyway, I don't think this post is going to change your mind to explain the Scriptures that I asked.
Until you do so, I will strive to move on from your posts and simply ignore them.

So again, what I am asking as a part of the original challenge is this:

#1. Explain using your own words how your belief in “Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism” is consistent with all the important words or phrases found in 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:8-9, 1 Timothy 5:8, and Jude 1:4.

#2. Use the context (surrounding words in that chapter to BACK UP your explanation that is in your own words) for these verses. The point of using the context is to show how they would back up your belief and explanation. If there are no supporting verses to support your belief, I will allow an explanation using Scripture of how these words fit in your belief with cross references. For example: Most misunderstand Paul because they do not understand that he is attacking the heresy of Circumcision to be saved (See: Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, and Acts 15:24).

#3. Use cross references in other places in the Bible that would BACK UP your explanation that is in your own words) for these verses. The point of using the cross references is to show they would back your belief and explanation.

 

[MaxPower]

I believe in Jesus of the Bible just fine.
But the question you must ask yourself is:

Do you believe in the real Jesus of the Bible if you do not receive all of His words?

But you don't have Christ and you don't believe the first line of the Gospel and your version has nothing to do with the cross and you admit you are working to try and be saved, that has nothing to do with Jesus of the bible

Paul warns that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud, and they know nothing

Yes that's right that is why you are obsessed with explaining scriptures away, for example if you do not have Jesus you are a reprobate that is very opposed to godliness, you ignore verses like these

Right, I gave you these verses initially.
Again, if you don’t believe certain verses that Jesus told us (like the ones I mentioned above), you don’t believe in the real Jesus of the Bible.

You are not qualified to give anything, you don't know if you have Christ, that is an example of someone following the wrong Jesus like you brought up, Paul says we can know, you don't, See how out of line with scripture you are?

Many believers (who no doubt thought they were saved) were told to depart from Jesus because they worked iniquity (sin) in Matthew 7:22-23. Jesus said He never knew them because they accepted a false Jesus, to begin with by the fact that they thought they could remain a sinner and be saved.

Did you notice that group offered there works....But see you do it again you are calling believers sinners, Believers have the gift of righteousness, they are the righteousness of God in Christ, they do not sin and are not sinners, but the accuser accuses them of that day and night, you should know

You told me that the fornicating man in 1 Corinthians 5 was saved. So this means you are one of those Christians who believe they can work iniquity or who turn God’s grace into lasciviousness

We have been through this and you write like we haven't talked about it, You bring in the "may" may mean may not.... and after the guy would be dead, don't you see how silly that sounds, the verse says "that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." if you think that means he lost his salvation it has me wondering about your education level

But believers need to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy

No that is anti christ, Jesus came to save sinners, To teach believers that already have christ they have to forsake sin to obtain mercy, when Jesus has been made sin for them and died for it, is to deny The blood atonement and the new testament and what God has done in there life, you are accusing the work of God and you shouldn't do that, but I suspect that is what you work for

Here is a example of Gods salvation plan, to destroy the accuser

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Believers have received Mercy, they have the gift of righteousness, they have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus, Believers don't have any sin, they are called saints, it is you that call them sinners

I am actually wondering about your education level. Do you even know what the word “Initial” even means?

Initial is defined as:

existing or occurring at the beginning.

Don't get confused with the simplicity that is in Christ, Listen when Jesus is our salvation, you get salvation when you have receive Jesus, seen you haven't you wouldn't understand that Jesus is our salvation, you don't get an initial part of Jesus or a bit here and there, it is all or nothing, unless you put salvation on something else and then no education will help you anyway, You receive salvation when you receive Christ, you admit you are working on it so you don't have it yet

So was there ever a point in your life where you GOT SAVED or where you were INITIALLY SAVED?
There was never a point in your life where you first got saved?
Do you believe you were always saved?
That is what you would have to believe if you deny Initial Salvation.

The point when someone is saved is when they put their faith in Jesus and they receive Christ in them, you don't have that so that is where you need to start

This is ridiculous. You don't even believe these verses above apply to you today because you hold to the popular candy-coated version of Christianity that undoes these words by our Lord.

I agree that it is ridiculous, why do you keep asking to do such ridiculous things when you cant even answer basic questions, but i notice you are throwing around lots of accusations again, is that your diversion tactic, and for the record I agree with those verses why such angry miss informed accusations

You don't believe you have to love God and love your neighbor as parting of inheriting eternal life.
You don't believe you have to preach the gospel as a part of God's plan of salvation (Which would be a part of our Sanctification).

Again accusing...that nature is not loving, When you get the gift of eternal life, which is Jesus then you can show the love of God to a lost world because you have received the love of God, condemning and judging and accusing would be what the devil loves, I believe you can Love because you have God who is love in you

And I did show you the Gospel and how you didn't pass the first line and I showed you you must be born again, but if you dont have it you wouldn't understand these things that you think you have to work for to try and get..but never will

We are told in Scripture to follow Jesus, right? (See: 1 John 2:6).
You are not doing that.

You would have to take that specific accusation to Jesus, when you receive Jesus you receive life, then in sanctification you are conformed into the image of his son, but not until you receive the son, and you admit you haven't done that, so I have to accept you as not Gods, reprobate and quite an accuser at that

Right now, you are not able to explain simple verses I have given to you using the surrounding context and or cross references in other parts of the Bible. You are not using your own words to support these Scripture verses that would make sense out of your belief.

You cant even pass the first line of the Gospel, You don't have Christ, salvation or any assurance and that is all from your own words, you should stop trying to be a bible corrector and listen to what the scriptures say, the devil was the first one that tried to be a bible corrector

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But you don't have Christ and you don't believe the first line of the Gospel and your version has nothing to do with the cross and you admit you are working to try and be saved, that has nothing to do with Jesus of the bible

Yes that's right that is why you are obsessed with explaining scriptures away, for example if you do not have Jesus you are a reprobate that is very opposed to godliness, you ignore verses like these

Let god be true and every man a liar, to be honest i don't accept anything you have to say because you are not qualified, you you don't know if you have Christ, that is an example of someone following the wrong Jesus like you brought up, Paul says we can know, you don't, See how out of line with scripture you are?

Did you notice that group offered there works....But see you do it again you are calling believers sinners, Believers have the gift of righteousness, they are the righteousness of God in Christ, they do not sin and are not sinners, but the accuser accuses them of that day and night, you should know

We have been through this and you write like we haven't talked about it, You bring in the "may" may mean may not.... and after the guy would be dead, don't you see how silly that sounds, the verse says "that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." if you think that means he lost his salvation it has me wondering about your education level


No that is anti christ, Jesus came to save sinners, To teach believers that already have christ they have to forsake sin to obtain mercy, when Jesus has been made sin for them and died for it, is to deny The blood atonement and the new testament and what God has done in there life, you are accusing the work of God and you shouldn't do that, but I suspect that is what you work for

Here is a example of Gods salvation plan, to destroy the accuser

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Believers have received Mercy, they have the gift of righteousness, they have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus, Believers don't have any sin, they are called saints, it is you that call them sinners

Don't get confused with the simplicity that is in Christ, Listen when Jesus is our salvation, you get salvation when you have receive Jesus, seen you haven't you wouldn't understand that Jesus is our salvation, you don't get an initial part of Jesus or a bit here and there, it is all or nothing, unless you put salvation on something else and then no education will help you anyway, You receive salvation when you receive Christ, you admit you are working on it so you don't have it yet

The point when someone is saved is when they put their faith in Jesus and they receive Christ in them, you don't have that so that is where you need to start

I agree that it is ridiculous, why do you keep asking to do such ridiculous things when you cant even answer basic questions, but i notice you are throwing around lots of accusations again, is that your diversion tactic, and for the record I agree with those verses why such angry miss informed accusations

Again accusing...that nature is not loving, When you get the gift of eternal life, which is Jesus then you can show the love of God to a lost world because you have received the love of God, condemning and judging and accusing would be what the devil loves, I believe you can Love because you have God who is love in you

And I did show you the Gospel and how you didn't pass the first line and I showed you you must be born again, but if you dont have it you wouldn't understand these things that you think you have to work for to try and get..but never will

You would have to take that specific accusation to Jesus, when you receive Jesus you receive life, then in sanctification you are conformed into the image of his son, but not until you receive the son, and you admit you haven't done that, so I have to accept you as not Gods, reprobate and quite an accuser at that

You cant even pass the first line of the Gospel, You don't have Christ, salvation or any assurance and that is all from your own words, you should stop trying to be a bible corrector and listen to what the scriptures say, the devil was the first one that tried to be a bible corrector

Tchau, Tchau.

May…

 

[MaxPower]

Tchau, Tchau.

Let me know if you are ready to answer any questions!

 

[FredVB]

Salvation is actually real with repentant faith, coming to Christ through whom there is atonement for restoration to God, with the way shown for us. Without the faith for that with repentance, that there would be change in life, what there is to show for it is not real. The promises in scriptures about it that address how believers are sealed, and have everlasting life, pertain to those in whom it is real.