Discussion Truth is Truth

[unfinishedclay]

I believe the reason you are experiencing life on this higher level is directly tied into your responsiveness to God about just these matters.

Amen. Believe me, tho. There have been too many times when I didn't sacrifice and I had to repent for disobedience. A long way to go for me in my growth. I would love to be able to say I've listened to the Lord on everything.

Correction: I HAVE to repent. All the time.

Praise God He continues to teach us and lets us learn. Praise God we change from glory to glory and are purged.

 

[Farine]

Amen. Believe me, tho. There have been too many times when I didn't sacrifice and I had to repent for disobedience. A long way to go for me in my growth. I would love to be able to say I've listened to the Lord on everything.

Correction: I HAVE to repent. All the time.

Praise God He continues to teach us and lets us learn. Praise God we change from glory to glory and are purged.

That you are checking your impulses is good. That you are praising God as you see spiritual classes and take on more wisdom is good. Just remember that since God is your good, good Father, His goodness is not weak. That's a hard concept to hold onto. A lot of people think saints are 'nice'. That's because they haven't gotten too close to one to really be in relationship. God is good... not 'nice'.. not squishy and permissive and easy to get around. And God's goodness is not harsh.. but aware of your needs or limitations. It's just right.

What that means is that whatever you are experiencing right now is blessed, even if you intensely dislike it. Somehow, there's a blessing in it. The definition of an optimist is ... if you give an optimist a bag of manure they will exclaim with delight "With that much manure, there has GOT to be a PONY around here somewhere!!" As children of GOD, even in our toughest challenges, we get to exclaim.. I KNOW there is a blessing around here somewhere!!

 

[Farine]

Fasting.

This post will not explain how to fast. And those who have greater knowledge in fasting are more than welcome to explain what you know. My views will be missing because this is a relatively new occurrence for me. So far we've been covering the empowering of the servant God sends to respond to an disinterested, disengaged audience. If that is you, fasting is one your tools in the tool box of the mature Christian.

Here's a snapshot from the Gospel.

Matthew 6:16-18
“When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. ..”

Here Jesus does not discourage fasting, but puts the focus on its unseen, spiritual nature.

From my experience, I had more clarity, more peace in my soul although I really craved pizza. All in all, a good trade. Oh yeah, side effects. The side effects of fasting include strong desires for things being excluded, irritation with others, desires to have your own way. Basically, if you have some dirt swept under the rug, a fast will bring it out in plain view.

What reward is there that Jesus mentions from your Father, who sees in secret?
One reward is power.
I'm going to the KJV for this bible reference because the NIV did not mention this remark from Jesus. In Matthew 17, when Jesus expels a demon from a boy which the disciples failed to cast out, they asked him why they failed. Here is Jesus' response. (Matthew 17:20-21)

And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

I'm confident on the empowerment response from God. Here's another benefit which I believe is why Jesus fasted 40 days prior to his launch into public ministry. I believe fasting helps you have a greater experience of the spiritual realm. If Jesus was going to be profoundly opposed and thoroughly rejected, He had to have absolute, unshakable confidence in WHO HE WAS and IS. I believe that his fasting positioned him for those experiences.

Do you know who you are in the Kingdom of Heaven?

 

[unfinishedclay]

GOT to be a PONY around here somewhere!!" As children of GOD, even in our toughest challenges, we get to exclaim.. I KNOW there is a blessing around here somewhere!!

Okay!

 

[Farine]

trials ,when endured ,prove the work of god within us that it is OF GOD and not of our doing .for that which is OF god will endure fire and come out all the more beautiful for it .
sometimes I desire to say much and then i think ,this time ,let some one else's testimony say it .

watch and see endurance at work in peace ..and see its fruit

https://www.facebook.com/

Okay. Had some suffering. Had to come back to this post of yours, Alithis. Second pass, but I hope you'll excuse me. I did not know I had this message in preparation for some significant misery.

This is the one of the advantages of being anonymous. I can give details. I am seeing a life devolve. Soul corruption of such an advanced case that small children, dogs, nearly senile people sense it. This life is someone I care about. Seeing the effects of decades of bad.. no let's be honest EVIL .. choices.. hurts me deeply.

We've been friends for years. WHy wasn't my friendship adequate to arrest this plummeting soul a long time ago? Why is it taking all this SUFFERING and he's still a few clues short of Mrs. Green did it in the Library with the Candlestick! *facepalm* That's the problem.

"watch and see endurance at work in peace..." Prophetic. Powerful. Necessary. I wanted to come back and thank you deeply for taking the time to write that. I was too much in a hurry before. My apologies,. I get it now....

 

[Farine]

Encouraging Oneself in the LORD.

Discussing sacrifice in its many forms is a heavy topic. Our souls get weighed down even as our spirits prosper. After all, it is our feelings and thoughts that are in tune with the costs as opposed to the virtues we are obtaining.

The phrase 'Encouraging Oneself in the LORD' comes from David's life after a heavy loss. (1 Samuel 30). David and the 300 men with him had a town they had settled their wives and children in called Ziklag. Raiders had busted in, burned Ziklag and abducted all its citizens. The 300 soldiers with David were so upset about this that they considered stoning David. All of them had wept so bitterly that they had no more strength to weep. It is at this terrible moment that the Bible records that 'David encouraged himself in the Lord his God."

That's not the only instance of this practice supplied for us. In the Gospels, Jesus would go into a lonely, solitary place even from His disciples to pray. His disciples were so impressed with the responses Jesus had from these prayer times that they asked Jesus to teach them how to pray.

It's a stretch, one might honestly disagree with this, but the story about Elijah in the cave all alone before the wind and fire and the earthquake was finally met with God's still, small voice which interrupted his depressed, forlorn state.

Here's the point from all this. A massive perspective shift happened for David where he went from counting his losses to contemplating the power of God promised to help him. The costs are real. There's no point to sugarcoating that trials, loss of relationships, personal agendas are part of the cross we bear following Jesus. Look! There's also magnificent opportunities and new natures and courtside seats to see the Hand of GOD at work in our lives.

What do we focus on?

 

[Farine]

Grace.

So much has been written about this topic, that a one post blip is sure to be inadequate. Last night, my emotions got the better of me. In the debate with my almost 18 year old, self-control slipped and mistakes were made. On her side, she misunderstood what the expectations were of her. On my side, I forget she's a newly minted woman and sometimes is absent-minded by nature. Anyway, here we were on opposite sides of an issue and needed to restore our relationship.

She gave me grace. Once she understood the basic problem, she forgave me. I almost can go back in the mental reel and point to the exact point where she had figured out where we had gotten off track and forgave me then. I'm embarrassed to report it took me awhile longer to blow out the steam and focus on what she was really saying rather than what I thought I was hearing her say.

After we were done, there was an embrace and resolve to have clearer communication. She went to sleep easy, conscience clear. I did not fall asleep so easily. It seems it takes more to pardon myself. My husband noticed the disturbance in the wife. 'What's wrong, Honey?", he said. OH now I wondered,.o0(What was going to happen?) Would he understand? Would he go over this already raw territory? No, grace was there too. The tenderness behind the score of years dealing with me pointed to insecurities I barely knew but which he was long familiar. His sense of humor poked me repeatedly. Behind the jokes and clever observations was love.. "Accept this.." it seemed to say.. 'Believe it.." And then I felt it.

If you have been struggling especially after a slip, the prayer is that you find in this tiny excerpt the big and small version of grace. The BIG Grace of God forgiving and restoring us from our sins is hidden here. The small version is people opening their hearts to restore relationship after a fall. God bless you!

 

[Farine]

Angels.

Hebrews 1:13-14
To which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

This post will also be a short one. The original concept for this discussion was that authenticated Messengers of God bearing HIS WORDS are often not received by their intended audience. I wanted this discussion to be a place of refreshing for people who have had that assignment and been rejected by people.

For those who are just joining us at this point, the last few posts have been about the empowering that God gives to be able to reach this disengaged audience. Here in Hebrews, the inspired author declares that angels serve those who will inherit salvation. We have some clues from the Bible how they serve.

From Psalm 91:11-12, they are involved in protection.
For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

Angels are involved in revelation-God sometimes uses them as messengers.
Daniel 7:15-16
“I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me. I approached one of those standing there and asked him the meaning of all this. “ So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things:

Angels are sent in response to prayers from God's People.
Acts 12:5-7
So Peter was kept in prison, but the church was earnestly praying to God for him.
The night before Herod was to bring him to trial, Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains, and sentries stood guard at the entrance. Suddenly an angel of the Lord appeared and a light shone in the cell. He struck Peter on the side and woke him up. “Quick, get up!” he said, and the chains fell off Peter’s wrists.

We, who are inheriting salvation, have a right to expect the help of angels. We may not understand how they are helping us. In praising God for Angels, we show that our faith is not focused on the earth and its ways. Our citizenship is in Heaven where we will one day join the angels in their ongoing worship of the Most High God. To God be the Glory for the things He has done!

 

[unfinishedclay]

Grace.

So much has been written about this topic, that a one post blip is sure to be inadequate. Last night, my emotions got the better of me. In the debate with my almost 18 year old, self-control slipped and mistakes were made. On her side, she misunderstood what the expectations were of her. On my side, I forget she's a newly minted woman and sometimes is absent-minded by nature. Anyway, here we were on opposite sides of an issue and needed to restore our relationship.

She gave me grace. Once she understood the basic problem, she forgave me. I almost can go back in the mental reel and point to the exact point where she had figured out where we had gotten off track and forgave me then. I'm embarrassed to report it took me awhile longer to blow out the steam and focus on what she was really saying rather than what I thought I was hearing her say.

After we were done, there was an embrace and resolve to have clearer communication. She went to sleep easy, conscience clear. I did not fall asleep so easily. It seems it takes more to pardon myself. My husband noticed the disturbance in the wife. 'What's wrong, Honey?", he said. OH now I wondered,.o0(What was going to happen?) Would he understand? Would he go over this already raw territory? No, grace was there too. The tenderness behind the score of years dealing with me pointed to insecurities I barely knew but which he was long familiar. His sense of humor poked me repeatedly. Behind the jokes and clever observations was love.. "Accept this.." it seemed to say.. 'Believe it.." And then I felt it.

If you have been struggling especially after a slip, the prayer is that you find in this tiny excerpt the big and small version of grace. The BIG Grace of God forgiving and restoring us from our sins is hidden here. The small version is people opening their hearts to restore relationship after a fall. God bless you!

Thank you for sharing this. I see that as I'm learning more about giving grace, I have to receive more grace. And see where there is grace in each part of my own situations. Accepting it and believing it. I'm learning to see where the grace is as I ponder on what the Lord shows me before I can feel it, as you're pointing out in the end of your post.

 

[Farine]

And see where there is grace in each part of my own situations.

What a great segue for today! Perspective. Or "What Does This Event Mean to Me?"

A LONG time back in the thread there was a mention of "Holy Vision" or the Kingdom Perspective (Post #64). The gist of that was that the Spirit's involvement radically changes how we see THINGS or EVENTS. In our lives, we have a shifting of our perspective. With grace, we understand that we need inner help, for example, in order to be good.

Our perspective changes in a lot of ways as God works with us, not just from grace. Psalm 73 is one the psalms of Asaph. Asaph is disturbed that the ungodly and the proud seem to 'have it made'. It bothers him so much that he reports that he almost fell into envy. (Verse 3) And he almost spoke about it to others. (Verse 15)

Here are the chief objections that Asaph has about how God was responding to the ungodly and proud.
They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.(verse 5)
They get away with trash-talking against God and His Kingdom.. " They set their mouth against the heavens..." (Verse 9)
Oh, are they rich! "Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches." (verse 12)

What saves Asaph from despairing? Perspective. (verse 16-18)
When I thought to know this, it was too painful for me; Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end. Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction.

The people we are serving are perishing, Folks. If you could see them as God does, the inner mess would be compared to wounds and disease. Here are a couple of Bible references. Isaiah 1:4-5
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.

Psalm 64:2-7 is a longer reference, but it is an extended metaphor.
Hide me from the secret counsel of the wicked; from the insurrection of the workers of iniquity: Who whet their tongue like a sword, and bend their bows to shoot their arrows, even bitter words: That they may shoot in secret at the perfect: suddenly do they shoot at him, and fear not. They encourage themselves in an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them? They search out iniquities; they accomplish a diligent search: both the inward thought of every one of them, and the heart, is deep. But God shall shoot at them with an arrow; suddenly shall they be wounded.

It's easy to get distracted by the surface injustices of life. We're holding back from saying everything we think. Our heart's desire is to see the Will of God displayed on earth. What do we get for our efforts? Oh, it's not fun at times. And what about these individuals who we are sent to? They seem to be doing just fine.

Jonathan Edwards, the Puritan Preacher, noted this "It implies, that they were always exposed to sudden unexpected destruction. As he that walks in slippery places is every moment liable to fall, he cannot foresee one moment whether he shall stand or fall the next; and when he does fall, he falls at once without warning..." From the Sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God"

What conclusions might we finally arrive at from all of these matters? I'm wondering if you are still here after such length. We do well to consider the ultimate resolution of both godliness or wickedness. Being in the Household of God has eternal blessedness. Being without it has eternal shame and regret and distress. Our comforts may not be in material form. The joys of this life for us may be the satisfaction that we followed Jesus with the grace He provided. Let us not forget each other. If you are His Servant, then a brother or sister to me. Let me be quick to acknowledge the bond. That we cannot ENJOY the presence of another who suffers the same way is an unnecessary burden.

 

[Farine]

And what perspective do we have regarding affliction?

This is the 151 post of a topic regarding the dynamics of REAL Messengers of God to disaffected people. There is that much preparation, that much substance to the entire subject. Buried deep in this discussion is the topic of affliction.

We can define affliction as something that causes pain or suffering. There is certainly a lot of that in our world.

The Bible phrases it this way (Lamentations 3:31-33)..
For no one is cast off by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love. For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to anyone.

Ah, but God does bring affliction or grief at times. (Deut 32:39-40)
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.

If you were following this discussion in the early posts, Elijah was sent to say there would be no rain or dew except at his word. And three years went by without any moisture before the people were finally prepared to concede that only God could bring rain (which they must have to survive). That famine was extremely severe and caused a lot of suffering.

So how do we view suffering? Are we just obsessed with removing it? Psalm 119:71 mentions this: It is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes.

Now that's a tough moment-- to say that suffering had a positive result. There it is in the Bible. If we believe the Bible, we have to find a place in our thoughts for suffering that is producing [good] fruit. Solomon's wisdom in Proverbs took this concept of the positives of suffering to a whole new level. [Proverbs 20:30]
Blows and wounds scrub away evil and beatings purge the inmost being.

Really? Our empathy reels at the implications. That the self, entrenched in rebellion in love with its own ways, must be driven off the throne of its life. That affliction is there to make room for the thought that this life is bankrupt without God. Then, the real messenger of God might be received with some gladness. The thought itself is extremely painful. I wanted to be sent in due season, yes. But it seems I am to be associated with storms, with suffering, with the taste of bitterness. And yet, it is good for me that I have been afflicted, that I might learn God's ways.

If you are afflicted today, and who among us is without problems, this wounding may be like surgery done by a caring Physician. If God wounds, He will also heal this wound. He does not willingly afflict you.

 

[Farine]

Affliction Part Two, or The Dark Night Of The Soul.

For those who have never experienced this sensation, this post will not make sense to you. I prayed before writing and felt that at least one of the readers of this discussion thread needed to know more about this topic. Again, a few paragraphs does not adequately explain it. If you are having the sensation that your affliction is like unto Job's affliction, then keep on reading. The sensation of feeling darkness is so intense, not only can you not feel 'the light', it feels like even the memory of light is gone. It feels like God has left you and you don't know why. The inner darkness lingers awhile. It's not a bad day or a bad week. It could be combined with depression or be experienced as a sense of abandonment by itself.

Christianity Today wrote about this topic here. http://www.christianitytoday.com/pa...line-only/3-truths-of-dark-night-of-soul.html I liked this article because it does not imply that an error was made which resulted in this experience. Here is a helpful quote to distinguish between a 'Dark Night' experience and depression.

With a dark night of the soul, the person stays in tact, even though she is hurting. While a person in the midst of a dark night of the soul knows, on some level, there is a purpose to the pain, the depressed person is embittered and wants to be relieved immediately. “In accompanying people through dark-night experiences, I never felt the negativity and resentment I often felt when working with depressed people,” explains Dr. May. (http://www.everydayhealth.com/columns/therese-borchard-sanity-break/depression-dark-night-soul/)​

Some of the most anointed and effective servants of God were permitted to go through this 'Dark Night". We've mentioned Job at the outset. Job said this. (Job 3:23-26)
"...Why is life given to a man whose way is hidden, whom God has hedged in? For sighing has become my daily food; my groans pour out like water. What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me. I have no peace, no quietness; I have no rest,but only turmoil.”

This is the picture of the Dark Night from the inside, in the midst of deep, deep questions. King David, wrote agonizingly in Psalm 6:4-7 these troubled words,

Turn, Lord, and deliver me; save me because of your unfailing love. Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave? I am worn out from my groaning. All night long I flood my bed with weeping and drench my couch with tears. My eyes grow weak with sorrow; they fail because of all my foes.​

Martin Luther, Abraham Lincoln, Mother Theresa.. there's quite a list of people who have had this season of darkness.

Tomorrow's post will address what will help sustain you during affliction.

 

[Farine]

Great discussion guys.
I always wondered why folks limit their faith by making the scriptures too complicated. I hear a lot of the time "well, I...."

Correct me if I am wrong, but if the initial part of an argument against scriptural promises, for example, is "well, I believe this..." Does it really matter what the person believes, but what the WORD of God said?

First, welcome to the discussion. It is totally cool to carry on more than one topic in this discussion. That means when I post more content, I am not suggesting other ideas have to be left off. This question is tied to other questions. You can trace quite a few tangents from this point. As long as the focus is on what happens to genuine messengers, I am cool with it.

That said, as God is the consummate Teacher and Communicator, He meets you where you are at. That means if the Believer has, say 50% accuracy in their understanding of a Bible verse, God supports the nugget of Truth and goes to work on the remaining error. This is how it looks in real life.

Believer has a strong flocking instinct and is focused on the Belief that God loves everyone. This Believer resists the concept that there is different treatment for different people. When a Bible promise is read.. Say Phillipians 4:19 "And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus.." Will immediately apply the everybody premise and then turn around to the obvious reality that there is deep inequity and poverty and financial distress. I am using this example because I know someone like this. This is a real person.

When God responds to this person, again, working from real life, God supports the Truth that He does love everyone. The error is addressed with scripture "Many are called, few are chosen." I am going to stop here to give you an opportunity to respond.

 

[Farine]

Not sure where the bolded might be supported by scripture - that is a pretty interesting opinion.

Bolded part 2 - You are in error here as well - God shows no favoritism.

Hold on... hold on.. Let's not be quick to stamp the 'ERROR' stamp...
Yes, I know the Bible Verse that God does not show favoritism. You asked your original question.. "Does it really matter what the person believes, but what the WORD of God said?" I'm addressing your question.

This is my understanding of your question. If someone believes something with passion, but has some variation which in some ways is different than what the WORD of God said, does God honor and respond to that person's belief? Am I correct?

 

[Farine]

Where is the Light at the End of the Tunnel?

Few Messengers of God are more important than the Light-Bearing, Serving Servants to the ones who sit in darkness. And most of us who God chooses to send to those in darkness have sat in darkness at one point ourselves. It fulfills what is said in 2 Corinthians 1:3-5:

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ.​

It is often at this point of futility, that revelation breaks in. As many different scenarios exist, so do many different responses from God. The theme is that God has not left His Child in fact. It feels that way. For many people, how they feel is their reality. To have the truth put before their hearts that feelings are not the ultimate yard-stick for reality is a shock and a release from torment.

Are you flesh or are you spirit?
What is faith?
Who are the just?

These questions are the starting point to being a spirit having a human experience. There aren't much resources on the fleshly, natural level and getting less every year. The competition for these THINGS is so fierce, some give up and go off grid. In the spiritual realm, there is great abundance. God doesn't run out of love. There is acceptance and peace and wisdom in unlimited quantity. GOd's not perplexed by the problems and challenges we have. The intangibles of the LORD are more than adequate to handle our concrete problems.

Rank and file humanity struggles to deal with intangibles. Flesh craves substance. It wants something to hold, to measure. Promises, even from a trust-worthy God, are 'not enough'. Flesh will throw away a worthy partner, rich in inner goodness for a possible connection with an outwardly beautiful or rich or powerful lover. Natural thinking will toss a God-given inspiration to trade it for a paycheck which will ultimately never provide like the future business would have.

The intensity of a 'Dark Night' experience strips all those distractions away. The life is focused on one major issue: Where did God go?

Just like Elijah in the cave discovered that God was not in the earthquake, the wind, the fire... God is not gifts, the yawn-of-another-church-service, the ministry He gave, the duties we feel we must do.... These things are secondary, useful when they are in proper order.

I know this because I have been in the basement of my soul. My marriage, as good as it was as a gift, makes a poor god. My need to understand everything was keeping me from appreciating the God who is beyond my understanding. My agenda was preventing me from being guided. What I once thought was total upheaval, I now bless. WHere is the light when you are in the dark?

It's receiving new eyes... spiritual ones.. an upgrade to your understanding and perception. Ephesians 1:17-19a.

I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, and his incomparably great power for us who believe.​

 

[unfinishedclay]

Our perspective changes in a lot of ways as God works with us, not just from grace. Psalm 73 is one the psalms of Asaph. Asaph is disturbed that the ungodly and the proud seem to 'have it made'. It bothers him so much that he reports that he almost fell into envy. (Verse 3) And he almost spoke about it to others. (Verse 15)

Here are the chief objections that Asaph has about how God was responding to the ungodly and proud.
They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.(verse 5)
They get away with trash-talking against God and His Kingdom.. " They set their mouth against the heavens..." (Verse 9)
Oh, are they rich! "Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches." (verse 12)

What saves Asaph from despairing? Perspective. (verse 16-18)
When I thought to know this, it was too painful for me; Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end. Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction.

So, here's where I am currently. The only exception for me is, instead of being encouraged about my enemies "end", I'm praying for my enemies (my husband who was once my enemy, his former mistress who made no vows to me but still acted very much as an enemy, and anyone else whom I really can't think of specifically as an enemy.)

This Psalm by Asaph helps me to feel more kinship with the people of God who went before us. And those people we read about as God's Word tells those true stories.

 

[unfinishedclay]

What conclusions might we finally arrive at from all of these matters? I'm wondering if you are still here after such length. We do well to consider the ultimate resolution of both godliness or wickedness. Being in the Household of God has eternal blessedness. Being without it has eternal shame and regret and distress. Our comforts may not be in material form. The joys of this life for us may be the satisfaction that we followed Jesus with the grace He provided. Let us not forget each other. If you are His Servant, then a brother or sister to me. Let me be quick to acknowledge the bond. That we cannot ENJOY the presence of another who suffers the same way is an unnecessary burden.

The burden of the messengers that we are wherever God placed us. And of course, these don't encompass all the burdens and senses of urgency we have as we spread the gospel. But it so defines what I experience when I write and even when I teach those little children in Sunday School.

 

[unfinishedclay]

So how do we view suffering? Are we just obsessed with removing it? Psalm 119:71 mentions this: It is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes.

Now that's a tough moment-- to say that suffering had a positive result. There it is in the Bible. If we believe the Bible, we have to find a place in our thoughts for suffering that is producing [good] fruit. Solomon's wisdom in Proverbs took this concept of the positives of suffering to a whole new level. [Proverbs 20:30]
Blows and wounds scrub away evil and beatings purge the inmost being.

Really? Our empathy reels at the implications. That the self, entrenched in rebellion in love with its own ways, must be driven off the throne of its life. That affliction is there to make room for the thought that this life is bankrupt without God. Then, the real messenger of God might be received with some gladness. The thought itself is extremely painful. I wanted to be sent in due season, yes. But it seems I am to be associated with storms, with suffering, with the taste of bitterness. And yet, it is good for me that I have been afflicted, that I might learn God's ways.

If you are afflicted today, and who among us is without problems, this wounding may be like surgery done by a caring Physician. If God wounds, He will also heal this wound. He does not willingly afflict you.

I honestly believe that many of us within modern day Christianity (which typically does not embrace God's truth to the point of loving it, as proven by the fruits of actions among us in today's Christendom) have a hard time with affliction. So much so that it is too common among us to hear people say or imply: "It's okay to be angry with God." Something is seriously wrong with that. Hebrews 11:6 says without faith, it's impossible to please Him. (We can't have faith being angry with Him.) And Isaiah 45:9 warns us not to strive with our Makers.

I understand the flesh gravitates to getting angry or disappointed with God. From there, we are to repent. I don't think it makes sense to ever think we should forgive God. Forgiving someone indicates they did something wrong. God is NEVER wrong.

I think it is okay to ask God, "Why?" because James tells us if any man lacks wisdom (on any issue), let him ask of God Who gives to all men liberally.

Having said that, when I found out about my husband, it was so tempting to get angry with Him for allowing it. It was a hard blow to my heart to find out about 2+ years of betrayal and deception to me and our 4 children. And listening to the sermons out there that imply it's okay to be angry with God or that I should forgive God would have set me back even further than I already was toward my journey of my own repentance, healing, and embracing His Word more as my very life (and life support through my internal injury).

Anyway, this is how I see we tend to deal with affliction. There's this gravitation toward promoting anger with God and challenging Him in messages that are shabbily delivered to appease itching ears.

 

[unfinishedclay]

The sensation of feeling darkness is so intense, not only can you not feel 'the light', it feels like even the memory of light is gone. It feels like God has left you and you don't know why. The inner darkness lingers awhile. It's not a bad day or a bad week. It could be combined with depression or be experienced as a sense of abandonment by itself.

yes

 

[Farine]

So, here's where I am currently. The only exception for me is, instead of being encouraged about my enemies "end", I'm praying for my enemies

There's glory in seeing you grow. It's not a 'natural' reaction to pray for your enemies, or even people who casually ignore you. The distance between what we are displaying and God's vision for us can be daunting. The one thing you see in these true stories is God's triumph. People counted out the Hebrews time and again. They're still a people. The Christian faith has weathered so much persecution. We're still here. Outlasting your opponents is a very real strategy for victory. No, the miracle of endurance isn't very flashy. It does get the job done.