Trump’s hardball tactics backfire as ‘skinny repeal’ goes down

[mark kennedy]

Could someone with more knowledge of the processes in Congress explain this one to me please, because it looks to me that McCain might have been a lot more wiley in this action than first appeared?

So, he votes in favour of the bill coming to the floor for a vote, yes? He could have voted no with the others at that time and McConnell et al would have been free to draft up yet another version of the repeal...have I got that right?

Now, this bill was brought forward under what is called 'budget reconciliation' and I have been told that only ONE bill can be voted on under those conditions for the entire fiscal year.

So, by allowing the bill to come to the floor and then scuppering it, McCain has effectively prevented Trump and McConnell from bringing this bill back until this time next year...right in time for the mid-terms!

Have I understood this correctly, or am I giving that old fox too much credit...?

The first vote was a procedural vote, but McCain warned that he would not vote for it as written. McConnell wanted to bull ahead with a simple majority when McCain has long been a rogue who doesn't conform and he has been that way his entire career. I just happened to watch the drama unfold, McConnell was giddy early but when McCain came into the chamber and gave him the thumbs down he knew it was over. Pence was supposed to be the deciding vote but it never went to a tie breaker. McConnell was playing chicken with McCain thinking he would tow the party line, it was a foolish gamble after that brilliant speech about returning to the traditional order of the Senate.

All McCain want's is a chance to read the bill and debate it on the floor, he has no love for ACA, he is concerned that the process is endangering the Senate. If McConnell is smart will will simply talk to his colleague and figure out what needs to happen. Now the spending bill and tax reform is up and McConnell now knows he can't just bull this through. McCain was challenging authority as he always has, McConnell needs to appreciate that McCain is no one's puppet.

I don't think what McCain did was strategic, I don't think he is being sly or calculating. I think he is defying the party because they are wrong. It's as simple as that.

 

[Vylo]

Oh, no. Even the Fake News Media reported on his efforts.

What efforts were those? Saying bigly things with his tiny twitter fingers?

 

[lasthero]

What efforts were those? Saying bigly things with his tiny twitter fingers?

I especially loved his 'Go, Senate Republicans, Go!' tweet. Like it's a sporting event.

 

[Albion]

This would be like Alec Baldwin killing Trump.

Somewhere, in the great beyond, John Wilkes Booth is feeling plenty insulted.

 

[HereIStand]

Maybe that is because he was a presidential candidate and son of a general who volunteered to stay in a POW prison rather than desert his comrades. McCain has flaws, I've disagreed with him quite a bit, but he's no coward, that is for sure. There are plenty of hard men who would have taken that get out of jail free card, even if they weren't in the medical condition McCain was when he was offered it.

For Trump to demean that so casually was spitting in the face of POWs, and just one more reason he shouldn't be in the Oval Office.

No one is saying McCain is coward. His military service is honorable, but so is that of anyone else. Millions of people have served our country in uniform. Bob Dole was badly injured in combat and has lived without the use of one arm. Yet he never made his military service a focus of his career or his campaign for president. It's the same with George Bush senior. He too was shot down in combat, but it was never a focus of his political career.

 

[Ronald]

THE BIG IDEA: President Trump’s attacks on Republican senators are finally catching up with him, and Lisa Murkowski will not be bullied.

-- A last-ditch effort to keep the Obamacare repeal push alive went down by a vote of 51 to 49 in the wee hours of Friday morning, with three GOP members breaking ranks: John McCain, Susan Collins and Murkowski.

Mitch McConnell then pulled the legislation from consideration. “It is time to move on,” a dejected majority leader said.

-- There is nothing Trump can do any more that will get to McCain. Battling an aggressive form of brain cancer, the maverick was willing to vote “no” on the “skinny repeal” amendment so that other GOP colleagues who were also opposed to the measure could vote “yes” to save face with the conservative base. To this day, Trump has never apologized for saying that the former fighter pilot was not a war hero because he got captured in Vietnam. It gets less attention, but the president also besmirched the Arizona senator’s character by repeatedly accusing him of not taking care of other veterans. McCain has never forgotten.

Analysis | The Daily 202: Trump’s hardball tactics backfire as ‘skinny repeal’ goes down

Heroes don't get caught. What movie have you ever seen where the hero gets caught and is tortured for many years unless he breaks out and destroys the village and releases dozens of POW's? Trump is crude sometimes but he is right. Heroes win they don't lose.
McCain should retire, please. Term limits should be fixed, no one in their 80's should be allowed work in Congress, please. They can't give up their power.
Anyways, this is not Trump's failure, it is the failure of Congress ... well 3 of them. In November (if we make it that far) another election may give us a few more Republicans in the Senate and that will be enough, otherwise and flat repeal should satisfy temporarily until they replace. Who wants to replace it. We don't want the government in our business. Healthcare should be our responsibility, our personal expense whether we want it or chose to pay as we go. The big problem is the welfare state that we have created, all these free hand-outs that the rest of the working class already pays for. We don't want to anymore. Get a job you bunch of lazy people. The Bible says, "if you don't work, you don't eat." That should be are new work ethic as we once had in this country. Most people would be embarrassed and would refuse hand-outs. But now, the youth even want free education. Nothing is free.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

@Albion, exactly which part of my post was an optimistic assertion?

The glioblastoma information?

The fact that two presidents were assassinated, at least two had attempts, and a bunch of them had their lives much more danger than Trump?

The fact that Trump said, "I like people who don't get captured" referencing McCain's POW history?

That McCain has a constitutional right to vote however he chooses?


Or, was it because I said Trump isn't the worst treated president - by a long shot?

I am going to hope you meant the bit about constitutionality, seeing as I misspelled "rights" above. Perhaps you thought I was talking about something else. I will wait to hear your answer before I edit my post for correction.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Heroes don't get caught. What movie have you ever seen where the hero gets caught and is tortured for many years unless he breaks out and destroys the village and releases dozens of POW's? Trump is crude sometimes but he is right. Heroes win they don't lose.
McCain should retire, please. Term limits should be fixed, no one in their 80's should be allowed work in Congress, please. They can't give up their power.
Anyways, this is not Trump's failure, it is the failure of Congress ... well 3 of them. In November (if we make it that far) another election may give us a few more Republicans in the Senate and that will be enough, otherwise and flat repeal should satisfy temporarily until they replace. Who wants to replace it. We don't want the government in our business. Healthcare should be our responsibility, our personal expense whether we want it or chose to pay as we go. The big problem is the welfare state that we have created, all these free hand-outs that the rest of the working class already pays for. We don't want to anymore. Get a job you bunch of lazy people. The Bible says, "if you don't work, you don't eat." That should be are new work ethic as we once had in this country. Most people would be embarrassed and would refuse hand-outs. But now, the youth even want free education. Nothing is free.

Holy Western Romanticism!

 

[Ygrene Imref]

The most ironic part is that Lincoln was shot by an actor.

The media literally killed Lincoln. This would be like Alec Baldwin killing Trump.

I am begging you to be responsible and don't give this entity in office any more ammunition to call someone else he knows nothing about a murderer. If this becomes a critically drawn conclusion, Alec Baldwin will either be in jail, or on a n00clear tipped ICBM headed to N. K0rea in the fall under the Patriot Act, and NDAA.

I want to say I am joking... I really do.

 

[mark kennedy]

No one is saying McCain is coward. His military service is honorable, but so is that of anyone else. Millions of people have served our country in uniform. Bob Dole was badly injured in combat and has lived without the use of one arm. Yet he never made his military service a focus of his career or his campaign for president. It's the same with George Bush senior. He too was shot down in combat, but it was never a focus of his political career.

When McCain came back from Vietnam every politician wanted to shake his hand. Being the son of such a distinguished father and family made him a celebrity. He won his first seat in the House by turning back criticisms that he was just a carpet bagger and he did it with his service record. He would go on to take Barry Goldwater's place in the Senate. Then he had two traditions backing him, his military legacy and following in the steps of one of the most famous conservative politicians in modern history.

His military service is how he got started but it's not as simple as being a distinguished service member. He has distinguished himself other ways since.

 

[Albion]

Ygrene,
You know, it took me a couple of minutes to run that matter down, since I didn't reply to one of your posts at all. Maybe my finger hit something by accident. As a matter of fact, I never use that icon since I don't think it's very clear what the meaning is supposed to be.

 

[mark kennedy]

Heroes don't get caught. What movie have you ever seen where the hero gets caught and is tortured for many years unless he breaks out and destroys the village and releases dozens of POW's? Trump is crude sometimes but he is right. Heroes win they don't lose.

You never seen Rambo, he was taken prisoner and flash backs are what caused him to go off while he was being arrested for vagrancy.

McCain should retire, please. Term limits should be fixed, no one in their 80's should be allowed work in Congress, please. They can't give up their power.
Anyways, this is not Trump's failure, it is the failure of Congress ... well 3 of them. In November (if we make it that far) another election may give us a few more Republicans in the Senate and that will be enough, otherwise and flat repeal should satisfy temporarily until they replace. Who wants to replace it. We don't want the government in our business. Healthcare should be our responsibility, our personal expense whether we want it or chose to pay as we go. The big problem is the welfare state that we have created, all these free hand-outs that the rest of the working class already pays for. We don't want to anymore. Get a job you bunch of lazy people. The Bible says, "if you don't work, you don't eat." That should be are new work ethic as we once had in this country. Most people would be embarrassed and would refuse hand-outs. But now, the youth even want free education. Nothing is free.

When you put an entitlement out there, good luck getting it back. ACA is based on a tax, the Supreme Court recognized that, and there is no such thing as a temporary tax. America is lazy and self indulgent, shame on us. But that kind of rhetoric, while reasonable enough, isn't going to solve the problem at hand.

 

[SolomonVII]

McCain is mostly a relic to a past that ceased to exist. He believes that bipartisan efforts are possible.
Republicans for their part cannot even muster a partisan effort, and Democrats define themselves as the bloc that is not Republican.

Bipartisanship is dead. McCain has actually outlived it, just like he outlived the Vietcong, for that matter. He is one tough dude. Most Americans know better than to disrespect such bravery, just as most Americans do not make snide remarks about a woman's menstrual flow. The uncouth do not pay homage to either.

There is possibly something that a Republican president could do to 'hardball' the fractious Republicans into line. That would take a consistent effort on behalf of a president who commits himself to a policy. Trump is not that kind of president. While every effective president knows how to play hardball, hardball requires an actual commitment to a policy that a president is determined to ram through.

Trump commits himself to no policy. His only commitment is to himself and his own image. There is no upside for any Republican to commit themselves to something like that.

 

[lasthero]

What movie have you ever seen where the hero gets caught and is tortured for many years unless he breaks out and destroys the village and releases dozens of POW's?

Shawshank Redemption
Die Another Day
Unbroken
Stalag 17
Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence
I guess Rambo if you count the flashbacks.

Off the top of my head. Regardless, it's a moot point, because real life isn't a movie.

Heroes win they don't lose.

Ever watch the first Rocky movie? Or the sixth? Or Creed?

You should. They're very good movies.

 

[mark kennedy]

McCain is mostly a relic to a past that ceased to exist. He believes that bipartisan efforts are possible.

It is possible, don't be ridicules. I don't make an claim that McCain can restore it but the fact that he still honors it means it still exists.

Republicans for their part cannot even muster a partisan effort, and Democrats define themselves as the bloc that is not Republican.

Of course they can, they just can't make it work because it doesn't work for their constituents. 22% approval isn't a formula for success.

Bipartisanship is dead. McCain has actually outlived it, just like he outlived the Vietcong, for that matter. He is one tough dude. Most Americans know better than to disrespect such bravery, just as most Americans do not make snide remarks about a woman's menstrual flow. The uncouth do not pay homage to either.

I don't believe bipartisanship is dead nor do I believe the uncouth rule. I applaud McCain's call to return to order, let's wait and see before we count the process out.

There is possibly something that a Republican president could do to 'hardball' the fractious Republicans into line. That would take a consistent effort on behalf of a president who commits himself to a policy. Trump is not that kind of president. While every effective president knows how to play hardball, hardball requires an actual commitment to a policy that a president is determined to ram through.

Aside from a pen, President Trump has little to do with it.

Trump commits himself to no policy. His only commitment is to himself and his own image. There is no upside for any Republican to commit themselves to something like that.

He is a lame duck and depending on him would be a mistake for Congressional Republicans. If the Congress can figure this out Trump can go play golf while they do the hard work of governance. Trump's ineptitude doesn't make Congress weak, in some ways it makes them stronger.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I am begging you to be responsible and don't give this entity in office any more ammunition to call someone else he knows nothing about a murderer. If this becomes a critically drawn conclusion, Alec Baldwin will either be in jail, or on a n00clear tipped ICBM headed to N. K0rea in the fall under the Patriot Act, and NDAA.

I want to say I am joking... I really do.

It should also be noted that while John Wilkes was an actor, he was continually overshadowed by his much more talented brother, Edwin Booth.

Therefore, if a Baldwin is going to assassinate Donald, it'll probably be Stephen.

 

[lasthero]

It should also be noted that while John Wilkes was an actor, he was continually overshadowed by his much more talented brother, Edwin Booth.

Therefore, if a Baldwin is going to assassinate Donald, it'll probably be Stephen.

That'd be just sad. I mean, I don't wish assassination on Trump at all, but going out because of Stephen Baldwin? A man who once got second billing to Pauly Shore? Geez.

 

[mark kennedy]

It should also be noted that while John Wilkes was an actor, he was continually overshadowed by his much more talented brother, Edwin Booth.

Therefore, if a Baldwin is going to assassinate Donald, it'll probably be Stephen.

John Wilkes Booth was part of a larger conspiracy of Confederates that wanted revenge. South Carolina swore if that man was elected they would succeed, when Lincoln won 8 states had succeeded. The out going President said I hope you like coming into this office as much as I enjoy leaving it. It was a devastating war and Booth wanted revenge, it was quite a chase but they eventually caught the conspirators. His VP would be impeached for trying to protect the civil rights of the Confederates in the south. When he tried to replace the minister of war with someone who would follow his policies the articles of impeachment followed.

He would have been alright but he had shot his mouth off a couple of times and it hurt him in the interim election and he lost vital support. Those who don't learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Ygrene,
You know, it took me a couple of minutes to run that matter down, since I didn't reply to one of your posts at all. Maybe my finger hit something by accident. As a matter of fact, I never use that icon since I don't think it's very clear what the meaning is supposed to be.

And honestly, I have seen your posts before, including your ratings.

It did seem odd to me, which is why I actually meant what I said: it was a genuine question (even the part about the mispelling.)

 

[Ygrene Imref]

It should also be noted that while John Wilkes was an actor, he was continually overshadowed by his much more talented brother, Edwin Booth.

Therefore, if a Baldwin is going to assassinate Donald, it'll probably be Stephen.

I think I would have to agree. You are right about the motif: it is the same reason I think Melania is the real "spy."