Treasongate

[vatuck]

Frankly (with apologies to Shakespeare): A pox on both their houses (the Republicans AND the Democrats)!

They don't really seem to be working for us any longer, so why keep them?

 

[Doctrine1st]

She wasn't undercover... she was not covert... her status and identity were not hidden...

Noone was outed... (by Rove) she was already out...

No laws were broken...

She may not have been on a current assignment, but her identity as an agent was very much undercover.

 

[Smoke Screen]

If any of you would like to hear the interview between Ed Schultz and Joe Wilsom (Valerie Plame's husband), click on this link. For those of you who question or discredit Valeria Plame or Joe Wilson, you may want to listen to this. Ed and Joe go right down the list of the Republican talking points with Roves treasonous scandal.

http://www.bigeddieradio.com/dailyAudio/index.asp

 

[onzaga]

If you want to talk about treasongate look at how China acquired the missiles to reach out and touch the rest of the world with nuclear warheads.

wasn't that israel?

 

[onzaga]

fascism will come to america wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross
--sinclair lewis 1930's

 

[Smoke Screen]

Here's my prediction. Now that Scooter Libby is in the picture, Rove will get off with minor bruises. Libby will then become the fall guy. Rove is valuable because he's Bush's thinktank. There's plenty of Libby's to go around.

 

[arnegrim]

She may not have been on a current assignment, but her identity as an agent was very much undercover.

No... her identity as an agent was apparently fairly common knowledge in Washington.

Toensing, a deputy assistant attorney general under President Reagan, sees hurdles for Fitzgerald and strongly believes no crime was committed. In an interview, she said she doubted Plame qualified as a "covert" operative, and she said the CIA was "cavalier" about protecting her status. Plame's CIA position was "cocktail circuit talk" around Washington, Toensing said.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...guresinrovecase

Despite the initial outrage over the outing of a covert operative for crass political purposes--which I joined in--the facts began to disprove that. Not only was Valerie Plame not an undercover operative but her identity was public knowledge well before the Novak story.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/11334

 

[Doctrine1st]

No... her identity as an agent was apparently fairly common knowledge in Washington.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...guresinrovecase

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/11334

Got anyone a little more objective then Victoria Toensing and a blog with no references?



http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/11334

 

[arnegrim]

Got anyone a little more objective then Victoria Toensing and a blog with no references?

What is wrong with Victoria Toensing?

 

[Doctrine1st]

What is wrong with Victoria Toensing?

Right wing talking head her take on the matter is pretty much predictable. There is enough first hand accounts, as well as the CIA position itself in seek prosecution to make a fair judgment without quoting partisan pundits.

 

[arnegrim]

Right wing talking head her take on the matter is pretty much predictable. There is enough first hand accounts, as well as the CIA position itself in seek prosecution to make a fair judgment without quoting partisan pundits.

Well... seeing as how she is one of the authors of the law that Rove is accused of breaking... I think her point is valid.

Can you prove that she was covert?

 

[Doctrine1st]

Well... seeing as how she is one of the authors of the law that Rove is accused of breaking... I think her point is valid.

Rove may not be guilty of breaking that law. The intent was to discredit Wilson, and not to purposely out her.

Can you prove that she was covert?

You mean undercover? Her undercover job was an consultant for a CIA front company. The CIA never changed that status. That's the job as described by her to her neighbors, and the CIA is seeking prosecution.

 

[arnegrim]

Rove may not be guilty of breaking that law. The intent was to discredit Wilson, and not to purposely out her.

So... you agree that Rove may be innocent...

You mean undercover? Her undercover job was an consultant for a CIA front company. The CIA never changed that status. That's the job as described by her to her neighbors, and the CIA is seeking prosecution.

If Rove is not guilty of breaking that law... what are they prosecuting him for?

Is the CIA seeking prosecution? Source?

If she is describing her job to her neighbors... how is that 'undercover'?

 

[Doctrine1st]

So... you agree that Rove may be innocent...

With regards to the 1982 Law? I have no idea, that's what this inquiry is all about. I am not privy to the testimonies, Cooper has spoke up, Miller's not talking, and we don't know what Rove or Libby testified. However, given what little we do know without these testimonies, in regards to the 1982 that forbids identifying intelligence agents, that law is so narrow to which Rove or/and Libby would have been purposely intent on exposing a agent. So they may be innocent, but then again so could OJ. I think their intent was to dig up something on Wilson to discredit him for taking a stand against erroneous statements that even CIA knew were false during the State of the Union speech. That in itself is obscene, but is exactly how this admin works. It's Nixon all over again.

If Rove is not guilty of breaking that law... what are they prosecuting him for?

It's a grand jury inquiry, no one is being prosecuted on anything....yet.

Is the CIA seeking prosecution? Source?

The CIA filed a crime report which spurred the Grand Jury investigation.

If she is describing her job to her neighbors... how is that 'undercover'?

She described her job as an analyst for Brewster Jennings in which both her position and company were used as CIA fronts.

 

[Smoke Screen]

Anyone have more to add?

 

[TheBear]

My, my....

All these 'gates'.

 

[Smoke Screen]

My, my....

All these 'gates'.

What about Gannongate? Or Bill Gates? LOL

 

[arnegrim]

With regards to the 1982 Law? I have no idea, that's what this inquiry is all about. I am not privy to the testimonies, Cooper has spoke up, Miller's not talking, and we don't know what Rove or Libby testified. However, given what little we do know without these testimonies, in regards to the 1982 that forbids identifying intelligence agents, that law is so narrow to which Rove or/and Libby would have been purposely intent on exposing a agent.

Exactly... so perhaps we should wait for all the evidence before we burn anyone at the stake.

It's a grand jury inquiry, no one is being prosecuted on anything....yet.

And until they are... he should not be fired.

The CIA filed a crime report which spurred the Grand Jury investigation.

IIRC, they filed a report to look into a possibility of a crime.

She described her job as an analyst for Brewster Jennings in which both her position and company were used as CIA fronts.

The company's identity, Brewster-Jennings & Associates, became public because it appeared in Federal Election Commission records on a form filled out in 1999 by Valerie Plame, the case officer at the center of the controversy, when she contributed $1,000 to Al Gore's presidential primary campaign.

After the name of the company was broadcast yesterday, administration officials confirmed that it was a CIA front. They said the obscure and possibly defunct firm was listed as Plame's employer on her W-2 tax forms in 1999 when she was working undercover for the CIA.

Ok... so she 'outed' the front company in '99... There is no record of her working at Brewster-Jennings (or even if the company was still around) after '99.

So how could she still be undercover?

 

[Doctrine1st]

[/color]Exactly... so perhaps we should wait for all the evidence before we burn anyone at the stake.

There's this thing called the court of public opinion. There is no stopping that branch of judiciary and as a righty I'm sure you have no problem with it.

But one more thing, just like Watergate and Clinton's blowgate, it's the obstructure of Justice and perjury that is what usually hangs people, and judging by early accounts to the FBI where Rove made statements of clean hands, he could still be looking at a noose.

IIRC, they filed a report to look into a possibility of a crime.

Well of course arnegrim, that's what the Justice Department is all about, but it should let you know how serious the CIA is about the situation and thus Valerie Plame's identity.

Ok... so she 'outed' the front company in '99... There is no record of her working at Brewster-Jennings (or even if the company was still around) after '99.

It's a front meaning it's meant to be mentioned. That's the whole point. Rather than saying "I'm a NOC for the CIA" she tells inquiring minds she's an analyst for B&J. When she was on covert assignment, that's the company she worked for and there where other CIA agents who used this front, but thanks to the leak and Novak, not no more.

So how could she still be undercover?

 

[burrow_owl]

Rove may not be guilty of breaking that law. The intent was to discredit Wilson, and not to purposely out her.

This is a distinction without a difference. His method of discrediting Wilson was through the release of information that outed an agent.