Transsexuals and Religion

[Cute Tink]

And I am the King of Siam.

Well, your majesty, you can see under my profile picture that I am. Now do keep it on topic and address posts, not posters.

 

[Jutta2]

And your evidence that people are born homosexual is.............

There are various studies from renowned universities from the Netherlands, Germany, and the United States to prove it. We not characterize all contexts, but this much is certain: The emergence of homosexuality is an interplay of genes, hormones and prenatal imprinting in the womb. By the way, homosexuality is also in nature, as also animals that are hermaphroditic (earthworms, for example).

P.S. I don't expect an answer from you because there is none. Only ideological red herrings.

Why not? An honest question deserves an honest answer. It falls to me not only in detail, because English is not my native language. Here is a little clip from the documentary "Because the Bible say it so":

And here another intersting documentary:

 

[katerinah1947]

There are various studies from renowned universities from the Netherlands, Germany, and the United States to prove it. We not characterize all contexts, but this much is certain: The emergence of homosexuality is an interplay of genes, hormones and prenatal imprinting in the womb. By the way, homosexuality is also in nature, as also animals that are hermaphroditic (earthworms, for example).



Why not? An honest question deserves an honest answer. It falls to me not only in detail, because English is not my native language. Here is a little clip from the documentary "Because the Bible say it so":

And here another intersting documentary:

Hi,

W O W! Epigenetics.

LOVE,
Mary Katie., .... .

 

[As I was saying]

There are various studies from renowned universities from the Netherlands, Germany, and the United States to prove it. We not characterize all contexts, but this much is certain: The emergence of homosexuality is an interplay of genes, hormones and prenatal imprinting in the womb. By the way, homosexuality is also in nature, as also animals that are hermaphroditic (earthworms, for example).Why not? An honest question deserves an honest answer. It falls to me not only in detail, because English is not my native language. Here is a little clip from the documentary "Because the Bible say it so":

And here another intersting documentary:

Obviously you are another one who wants to believe what you want it to be rather than how it is. I have been asking this question of militant homosexual for years (generally know as the gaystapo) and not one of them has provided any proof. If these universities you allude had proven you are born homnosexual, don't you think the militants would know as they would shout it from the rooftops.

The fact that they don't means there is no such evidence. To use an analogy. If Holden knew that Ford cars were complete rubbish and they had evidence for it, don't you think they would let the world know to boost their own sales. The fact that they don't means they know that Ford cars are not rubbish.

All common sense young man., all common sense.

 

[As I was saying]

Well, your majesty, you can see under my profile picture that I am. Now do keep it on topic and address posts, not posters.

Ditto.

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi Cute Tink,

I am always so pleased in your objectivity.

One of my favorite things about you, is that you don't judge me as being a Religious Whack-O.

You, allow me to be me, to you.

I am going to go heavily Religious here, if that is allowed. And, although it sounds crazy to me, if I was in the position of many people in this world, as you know and the staff knows, I have some God encounters, it is in fact my every day life now.

Some of those God encounters, the staff has asked me to limit to those that are approved within my church, by Religious Authorities of merit. Even my priest pastor, back then backed off when he had trouble believing what happened to me, but he had to take the proofs also.

Since then, he and even the Spiritual Director Father Matt, who is deceased now, had some trouble accepting things. For Father Matt, whom I dearly love, is that even though he is highly highly highly Spiritual, with a minimum of one miracle he exeperienced and maybe more, it was that he needed to know something, to put him in his place. He was so pleased at that happening, and I don't know why. But he was. Father John, was surprised, and would not talk to me, about the obvious implications of my situation and God's Real Feelings on Transgender Women. I don't know why he never chose to engage again, after calling me up, to hear first hand, what Father Matt had determined. Later, he would confide to all us, his inability to do something, and maybe that was it.

Today if you will allow me, I would like to post todays Psalm in easy to read language, but before I do, Cute Tink, this is my world, and it makes almost total sense to me what it means. Yes, I thank you again, for allowing me to be me, and I do allow and like the you that is you. I like you online here also:


Psalm 17New International Version (NIV)
Psalm 17
A prayer of David.
1 Hear me, Lord, my plea is just;
listen to my cry.
Hear my prayer—
it does not rise from deceitful lips.
2 Let my vindication come from you;
may your eyes see what is right.

3 Though you probe my heart,
though you examine me at night and test me,
you will find that I have planned no evil;
my mouth has not transgressed.
4 Though people tried to bribe me,
I have kept myself from the ways of the violent
through what your lips have commanded.
5 My steps have held to your paths;
my feet have not stumbled.

6 I call on you, my God, for you will answer me;
turn your ear to me and hear my prayer.
7 Show me the wonders of your great love,
you who save by your right hand
those who take refuge in you from their foes.
8 Keep me as the apple of your eye;
hide me in the shadow of your wings
9 from the wicked who are out to destroy me,
from my mortal enemies who surround me.

10 They close up their callous hearts,
and their mouths speak with arrogance.
11 They have tracked me down, they now surround me,
with eyes alert, to throw me to the ground.
12 They are like a lion hungry for prey,
like a fierce lion crouching in cover.

13 Rise up, Lord, confront them, bring them down;
with your sword rescue me from the wicked.
14 By your hand save me from such people, Lord,
from those of this world whose reward is in this life.
May what you have stored up for the wicked fill their bellies;
may their children gorge themselves on it,
and may there be leftovers for their little ones.

15 As for me, I will be vindicated and will see your face;
when I awake, I will be satisfied with seeing your likeness.

New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.


LOVE, (My best remembrance of the way God actually loves. Yes, approved in that private revelation, by Father Matt, using a Gideon Fleece test, type of test. How's that for being religious and Transgendered.)

...Mary (The name I am told God calls me by) Katerina (The Transgender name I chose, but. But God The Father also spoke to me that name one day, for me, and to me, so it is dear to me.), .... .

Again. How is that for Religion, and being Transgendered. And, I am not alone in being Transgendered, and Christian. I am not.

LOVE,

 

[RileyG]

Correct, but your Church teaches that they have to force themselves to be celibate, even if not blessed with the gift.

Forced?

Homosexuality, as taught by my Church, is intrinsically disordered. It has nothing to do with "gifts".

 

[katerinah1947]

Forced?

Homosexuality, as taught by my Church, is intrinsically disordered. It has nothing to do with "gifts".

Hi,

Leaving homosexuallity out of the Transsexual and Religion Thread, is not Celibacy a gift from God, in the Roman Catholic Church's teachings?

Did not Paul, speaking in one of the very few times he spoke on his own, not have a comment about those who cannot handle celibacy?

Celibacy, is as far as I know it, a gift given to only a few.

LOVE,

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think the fact of the matter is that, biologically, the idea of sex and gender is a whole lot more complicated than what we have, culturally, assumed.

As a Christian I believe the Christian attitude toward transsexual and transgender individuals ought to be what it is toward anyone else.

I think there is a valuable point to be made, theologically, about the relationship between the body and personhood; namely that in orthodox Christian thought the body is not incidental, with "the soul" as the "real person"; human persons are, innately, bodily creatures. The body matters, as Christians believe that the body will, one day, rise and live forever. However I think that should open us up to a much larger conversation, not lead to shoving our heads into the sand like the proverbial ostrich.

Shutting the church door, literally or figuratively, upon persons who do not fit neatly into what we think is "normal" is to, at a very fundamental level, turn our backs against the heart and soul of the Christian religion: Namely the God who comes and meets the world in, through, and as the person of Jesus Christ. The Incarnation means that we have to, as the people who confess faith in the Incarnation, take the world as it is seriously, seriously enough to engage with the real world and real people who live in the real world, and actually be the people of Jesus Christ to that world.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[seekingsolace]

Catholic Cardinal Frings, who resided in Cologne many years ago, once said in the sixties that sexuality would be a good gift from God. Well, he meant heterosexuality, but this quote is not applicable to homosexuality? Especially when sexuality is lived responsibly?

No.

 

[katerinah1947]

Paul spoke in his Letter to the Romans also about what is "natural" (physin), and "unnatural" (para physin) is. Some Christians misusing these verses (Romans 1: 26-28), to judge homosexuals and condemn about them. Or about transsexuals. Here these words say something completely different! You need to look up only in the theological dictionary of the New Testament by Mr Kittel.

Hi,

To me, when Paul speaks on his own, He is not speaking for God. Rarely did he do this, and being one of those times, it is taken by me in whole different way. It is taken by me as God told him nothing on this so he is taking a guess.

In that guess we learn something about Paul in his ways. He is not burdened by the need to be sexual, while simultaneously some others are. So, Paul has not personal reference also in saying what he said.

I see nothing flawed in saying that I think this or I think that, if I drop out of my normal capacity verbally to others by telling them. I think Paul did that there. He gave his, opinion, when that is all he had.

Yes, I could be wrong.

LOVE,

 

[Hattington]

If we're talking about a male body, then the person is male. If we're talking about a female body, the person is female. The Bible never speaks well of trying to physically or otherwise make one into the other. When the issue is within the person's mind (it is) and cutting up the body does nothing to correct the issue in the person's mind (it doesn't), I see no reason why a wise and compassionate God would be in favor of the surgery.

Gender is not defined by the anatomy, it is defined by the identity the brain dictates. Hormones and epigenetics are believed to take a great roll into this. Therefore, we can consider transexuals whatever gender they choose.
Also, the bible will not speak of this because the people who wrote were not psychologists nor surgeons. They probably didn't even consider the idea conceivable.

 

[Dave-W]

Gender is not defined by the anatomy, it is defined by the identity the brain dictates. Hormones and epigenetics are believed to take a great roll into this. Therefore, we can consider transexuals whatever gender they choose.

Grrr. I really dislike people re-defining words to suit their own agendae. "Gender" is physical male and female.

 

[Cute Tink]

Grrr. I really dislike people re-defining words to suit their own agendae. "Gender" is physical male and female.

Gender has been adapted to mean more than just another word for physical sex. Has nothing to do with an "agenda".

 

[katerinah1947]

Grrr. I really dislike people re-defining words to suit their own agendae. "Gender" is physical male and female.

Hi,

Words are also made up and redefined by two groups of people. I belong to one of those groups.

Dishonest agenditory gruops like criminals actually change the meaning of normal words so they can abuse people in their minds, without the other person knowing it.

All of the cults, who are not really trying to tell people about God do that also.

However, there is another group of people who do the opposite, to those agendic types. I am one. As an example, before I tell you what my type is, one day I am talking to a person who is not in my field. "That's Poetry."

I asked her, what do you mean by that. In my mind I did not understand. "You take the complicated, and find out what it really is, and then tell people." With lots of nice conversation, I had just been accused of being a Poet. (That is not my group, per se.)

How can a scientist, be a Poet? That is what I was thinking. A Poet? I have always been left out of the Arts. Atoms, and such are not a point of Science they are an understanding of why your and my body work, and why aluminum and such stick together well enough to put people in capsuls and lauch them into space. They were not then any part of the Arts.

I was hired and worked in places because I could make sense out of things. All I really did, was to find out what was going on, then prove it, then give them words for them to understand for real what was going on.

Words sometimes do not exist. Tintinnabulation did not exist. It was made up and it works. Many now precisely know what Tintinnabulation is. It was made up for something like this, that existed but there was not a word for it. "The tintinnabulation of the bells."

Yes, inventing words can be used for two purposes.

If you are objecting to the idea of the concept of Intersex, words are not the problem. It lies elsewhere. It is a Galileo type affair, if a science issue, is treated as a religious issue.

LOVE,

 

[Dave-W]

Gender has been adapted to mean more than just another word for physical sex.

"Sex" is the word for physical sex. (arousal, stimulation etc.)

"Gender" refers to the configuration of body parts.

I believe what you are talking about, which amounts to a mindset; cannot be properly covered by either of those terms. Then perhaps creating a NEW TERM to cover that would be in order. But don't just take an existing word with a well understood meaning and distort it to fit your new definitions.

 

[Dave-W]

If you are objecting to the idea of the concept of Intersex, words are not the problem. It lies elsewhere. It is a Galileo type affair, if a science issue, is treated as a religious issue.

I do not have a problem with inventing new words for new situations, or dredging up long forgotten words that applied to a similar situation.

What I object to is the change of use of popular existing terms to meet the need.

For a purely linguistic example: I have over the past couple of decades been very annoyed at the use of phrases like "Third month anniversary;" which in turn requires the use of other phrases like "Five year anniversary" to distinguish one from the other. That last one is double speak as "anniversary" ALREADY has "year" in it from the Latin Anno. The first phrase entirely misses that fact. And indeed there is a word (which dates back to the 1500s) in English that covers a monthly mark and it is (again from the Latin) Mensiversary.

 

[Cute Tink]

"Sex" is the word for physical sex. (arousal, stimulation etc.)

Among other things. Dictionary:

1
: either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures
2
: the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of organisms that are involved in reproduction marked by the union of gametes and that distinguish males and females

"Gender" refers to the configuration of body parts.

Among other things. Dictionary:

the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

Even if you disagree with it, it is the accepted definition of gender by society.

I believe what you are talking about, which amounts to a mindset; cannot be properly covered by either of those terms. Then perhaps creating a NEW TERM to cover that would be in order. But don't just take an existing word with a well understood meaning and distort it to fit your new definitions.

You mean like whether things are masculine or feminine? That's been in use for a long time.

 

[katerinah1947]

I do not have a problem with inventing new words for new situations, or dredging up long forgotten words that applied to a similar situation.

What I object to is the change of use of popular existing terms to meet the need.

For a purely linguistic example: I have over the past couple of decades been very annoyed at the use of phrases like "Third month anniversary;" which in turn requires the use of other phrases like "Five year anniversary" to distinguish one from the other. That last one is double speak as "anniversary" ALREADY has "year" in it from the Latin Anno. The first phrase entirely misses that fact. And indeed there is a word (which dates back to the 1500s) in English that covers a monthly mark and it is (again from the Latin) Mensiversary.

Hi,

Oh! Thanks.

LOVE,

Hi again,

Now that hopefully I have set the tone, for both of us emotionally, and since you are similar to me is some ways academically, I am fascinated by liguistic types. I need some help though, from them.

Well maybe not. It seems you get just as upset over what is incorrect in language, as I get when someone who is solving a problem for the world in my field, (supposedly), but adheres to an incorrect scientific point.

As an example of my personality. It is essentially tender and mild, but not to the extreme. I never never never do certain things, except in the third week of every month and I am hoping one day not to be that way, but it looks hopeless. Yes, this is the third week, and I am trying to not be that way.

However as nice and calm and respectful as I am to almost everyone all of the time, I have looked back at my scientific work world. And there, I am the same also even in the third week of every month, except. Except when I am right and everyone else is wrong Scientifically.

You sound like that. Maybe I am worse. You judge. One day, and months to years later, I found out why they sent me to 7 habits of highly effective people.

Now, "Of all the arrogance, Of all the subtle condescending ways, Of all the dishonest ways of asking me to morph to your dishonest ways, this is it. "You pay me to solve problems you cannot solve. It is your dishonesty in your own lives that is blocking you. I solve everything so far that you have put before me. I don't listen to you guys, because you have proven that you are wrong. Now, you are upset that my correctly detemined research ways using Controlled Experiments and rigid controls on my own thinking, are right, but your incorrect thoughts and ways are not listened to? You want me to take time out of my day, to listen to your wrong ideas, just so I can reject them later. Why? Why? No. If you knew what you were talking about, and were not wrong I would. I am not listening to your wrong ideas, just to make you feel good. This is work. This is not home"

Pretty harsh right. I have even come out yelling correctly and screaming correctly at errant individuals in science. Only, I am the opposite when they are right, and I am wrong, and I am the opposite, when they who should know and do know, are not manipulating others, using science as their control and bludgeoning tool. Yes, some people do that with science.

And if any grace or mercy is to be granted to me for those actions, Yes, I was all they had to do that work for them. Thus to me, it was too important for them to further hurt themselves and others. I was it. I was solo. By the time I left, they started to find other research types to plug in. Only then, it was me like a mother, protecting errant children from their bad actions.

Wow, the duality in that, is scary. It is scary to me. I throttle that here. At least I think I do.

LOVE,

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed. While the OP is okay, the discussion regarding homosexuality is not. Nor is the profanity.

So clean up will be done as well.