torture

[KalithAlur]

this is a discussion concerning the ethics of torture... i'm interested in opinions and research,

concerning the nature of hell (separation from god, pit of fire/eternal torture, ect.)

and concerning whether or not you can be a good Christian and torture somebody before they die, for instance to gain information from a terrorist

 

[R3quiem]

this is a discussion concerning the ethics of torture... i'm interested in opinions and research,

concerning the nature of hell (separation from god, pit of fire/eternal torture, ect.)

and concerning whether or not you can be a good Christian and torture somebody before they die, for instance to gain information from a terrorist

I could personally never torture anyone, no matter what they did.

 

[Gukkor]

Torture violates my code of honor. Even if I thought it permissable regarding my religious beliefs (and I don't), I still would refuse to participate in it.

 

[Teufelhund]

Torture is never appropriate, and furthermore it is inneffective as a tool to gain information. There are no positive values to dehumanizing your enemy.

 

[dies-l]

Mt. 5:44. I can't see how this would even be a subject for debate. How can you love someone any torture them at the same time?

 

[R3quiem]

Mt. 5:44. I can't see how this would even be a subject for debate. How can you love someone any torture them at the same time?

According to mainstream Christianity, God does.

 

[Tavita]

Yes, that's true, R3quiem. We would never torture someone even if they're a terrorist, but God would. Sorta doesn't make any sense. Yet, there is always the argument that God isn't a man and doesn't judge or have feelings like a man. I always thought that man was made in God's image.

In the scriptures God tells us the best way to get rid of an enemy is to make friends with him. And we're also told to bless and pray for those who persecute and abuse us. In other words, we are commanded to love and forgive our enemies, but He doesn't have to.

 

[Joykins]

Torture is wrong and good only for producing lies.

 

[dies-l]

According to mainstream Christianity, God does.

Although there may be some extreme fundamentalists that believe something like that, I would hardly say that that is a normal or "mainstream" Christian belief. I mean, many Christians believe in a power of evil (i.e., Satan) that tortures people and that God allows people to reject God and choose to pursue evil (and all of its consequences) instead. But, I know very few Christians that see God as being in the torturing business.

Edit: having gone back and read the response a few posts above mine, I am reminded of why I should not try to explain the views of an entire group who may or may not be on the same page. I edit the above to refer to most I of the Christians that I have personally spoken to on the topic of hell and such and will make no attempt to categorize "mainstream" Christianity one way or the other on the issue.

 

[Hammster]

Where do you get the idea that God tortures people?

 

[R3quiem]

Although there may be some extreme fundamentalists that believe something like that, I would hardly say that that is a normal or "mainstream" Christian belief. I mean, many Christians believe in a power of evil (i.e., Satan) that tortures people and that God allows people to reject God and choose to pursue evil (and all of its consequences) instead. But, I know very few Christians that see God as being in the torturing business.

Edit: having gone back and read the response a few posts above mine, I am reminded of why I should not try to explain the views of an entire group who may or may not be on the same page. I edit the above to refer to most I of the Christians that I have personally spoken to on the topic of hell and such and will make no attempt to categorize "mainstream" Christianity one way or the other on the issue.

Christians mostly use the argument that God doesn't do the torturing- that we do it to ourselves. Instead, if we die without Christ's grace, we are eternally separated from God. (And eternal separation generally involves fire and excruciating pain.)

Mainstream Christianity believes in a literal hell. It is supported by many of Jesus' quotes.
One must ask why if God is so loving, he doesn't just kill everyone who enters hell- or is he not omnipotent? If he can do anything, he can make it so nobody suffers, yet he does not. He is either not all-loving, or not all-powerful. Or, religion in general has a very bleak understanding.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Torture is never appropriate, and furthermore it is inneffective as a tool to gain information. There are no positive values to dehumanizing your enemy.

Thats untrue. The CIA has broke over 14 top Al Qaeda agents have flipped and given accurate information after being waterboarded. khalid Sheik Muhammid flipped like a pancake. Brian Ross ABC News Chief Investigative Correspondent also believed it was untrue, until he investigated the stories. I was searching for the video and found it here on this site: just scroll down, clcik and listen.

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/09/...ntly-confirms-success-of-cia-torture-tactics/

 

[Teufelhund]

Have they? You realize that Bill O'Reilly is the same Bill O'Reilly who occused John McCain of not knowing about torture. I would not take his expert word for jacksquat in this case. I am all for interrogation, but you lie under torture, you give them the answers they want to hear, I have been under pretty strenous stuff, not nearly as strenous as torture, but pretty strenous and when under pressure you instinctively give the answers people want, so torture is not really effective not because of hate, but because of despiration.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Here is an example of waterboarding: Most don't last more then 14 seconds:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=c2Xd0Q2Auz4&mode=related&search=

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

If you watched the video it was by Brian Ross ABC news. And he is quite Liberal, unlike Bill O'reilly.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Actually the CIA has verified quite a bit of the extracted information as being true.

 

[Teufelhund]

I know. But I still don't trust torture methods, I definitely don't trust. the CIA reporting that it gains information through torture methods, I'm too deep in that world to believe anything they say at face value, and I'm not in very deep at all. I still rest on my point, answers given out of despiration are suspect. Secondly if know anything about military and goverment SOP, you'd that all information is unreliable and therefore unusable until verified, meaning that torture is in almost meaningless because the information cannot be verified to be accurate.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I was also in the US Army. 3 years active duty and I guarantee you that if you were in a secluded room and being waterboarded, you would confess where your family was hidden.

 

[Teufelhund]

The CIA has? Really, I suppose you know the CIA has to lie about methods and information in order to protect sources right?

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Like I stated, if you watch the videon by Brian Ross, he states that he unequivocally belives the statements to be true. Brian Ross was a doubter and now he is not. They got some pretty reliable stuff from Sheik Khalid Muhammid