me and my gf witnessed to a man at Starbucks the other night. I handed him a tract and he ended up talking to me about his beliefs. Sometimes a tract can spark conversation. So my gf talked to him about the gospel. I decided to tape record it just incase she says anything helpful as a way of demonstrating how to witness. She doesn't claim to have special talents for evangelism but i thought i'd write down the conversation and paste it to you. this might be helpful. i dont know, but just trying. Read below
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He was just explaining his belief that we sinned from heaven where we came from. Now below is how the conversation picked up from
Her: So my question would be, how would sin be in heaven if heaven would be perfect? Like if it says, “in Adam all die” and “by one man sin entered the world,” then you believe there’s a heaven on earth or? When Adam died he was in the garden and that wasn’t on earth or in an angelic place. In Genesis, that wasn’t in an angelic place.
Man next to our table: That was in Eden right? If you study Genesis you’ll find out Eden was not of this earth.
Her: Do you know where in Genesis it says that? I’ve heard that in the Mormon background. So how did we get from heaven to here?
Man next to our table: Well as you know we are all sinners. If you are just born into this earth, we’re already sinning. Even before we’re old enough to sin physically. So where does sin come from? It comes from our spiritual being. Spiritual being is not the sinner, but we’re in sin now.
Her: In the Bible it talks about a baby in the womb neither works good nor has it worked evil, so spiritually it hasn’t done anything good or bad, it’s the actual flesh that is sinful.
Man next to our table: So where does your spirit come from? Your spirit is millions of years old.
Her: yeah I know. But if the bible is saying, in the womb, neither works good or evil. So how spiritually does that baby sin?
Man next to our table: Physically it hasn’t sin, but it was given a spirit.
Her: but it was saying spiritually, it’s not talking about the body.
Man next to our table: it is because, before we’re born into this world, we are born into a dimension. We are in a 3rd dimension. Only god can live in all the dimension.
Her: so do you know where in the bible it talks of different dimensions?
Man next to our table: In the book of Daniel. How Gabriel went to Daniel, and when Daniel finished praying….so we can travel through dimensions physically. How long does it take for us to travel from one side of the galaxy to the next, it takes millions of years right? The universe is created by god. Can you imagine, this one solar system bears 2 billion solar systems.
Her: I’ve never really heard that but thanks for sharing everything. So my question is, where do you believe you’re going when you die?
Man next to our table: I cannot say, I can only have hope. We cannot boast about whats in store for us, but we can truly do the work, works of eternal life. Nobody can say, but I am working towards it.
Her: So it’s something you can do by your deeds to get there?
Man next to our table: Exactly.
Her: So how do you think God will measure your deeds to get there?
Man next to our table: we cannot say how God is gonna measure our deeds but we can follow God as best as we can and hope for the best.
Her: so do you think it’s scary hoping you did enough? Cause for me it would be, oh my goodness I’m not assured, I better do tons of good deeds.
Man next to our table: no, you can do what you can do. Right?
Her: so if God can look down at your deeds, whats the standard? How do you know which deeds are good to do and which are bad? Because you know His ways are not our ways and His thoughts above our thoughts. Sometimes what we think is good to do, God looks down at. Sometimes the things we do, me might think is good, but when God looks, it’s not as good.
Man next to our table: That’s why we need spiritual eyes.
Her: In the bible it talks about, like in our society of morality, murder is really bad. But it also says that if you hate someone in your heart without a cause that’s also murder. It also says that if you lust after a woman in your heart it’s adultery. So some of the good deeds we do, it’s not actually good in God’s eyes. It also says, it’s not always the good things that you do either, sometimes it’s the good things that you fail to do. If you know to do good and you do it not, it’s a sin. So it’s not always in your daily life about all the good things that you’ve done. Sometimes it’s the good things that you haven’t done. God says these things do not justify us. It’s the belief in Christ and what he did on the cross.
Man next to our table: what is the greatest commandment?
Her: love God with all your heart mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. For these hangeth the whole law. But we know that we’re not justified by the works of the law. It says in James and other place in the new testament. So we’re not justified by those things, we’re only justified by the blood of Christ. So basically in God’s eyes there’s no enough deeds that are so good that’s gonna get you to heaven.
Man next to our table: What is he trying to say?
Her: so the standard is, there is none good, no not one. All have sinned, me, you, Herbert (that’s my name), everyone here are all in the same boat. And nothing you can do can earn us to salvation. None of our good works, it’s all good and band before God. What you can do is believe on Jesus Christ, believe on his death, burial and resurrection and have hope and faith in that. It’s not based on what you can do and what you can’t do.
Man next to our table: Its based on God’s will, from the time of the Israelites, from the many times how the Israelites did good. What is bad in the eyes of God? Not keeping the Sabbath
Her: But it also says its good to do good in the Sabbath day. One of the Pharisees were telling him, why do you do these things in the Sabbath day? He said, if one of your lambs falls into a well and you go and get it in the Sabbath day, is that a sin? He said it’s good to do good on the Sabbath day. He said, is the Sabbath day made for man or man for the Sabbath? Meaning, the Sabbath is just a shadow of things to come, and it was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Anything we can do for the Sabbath day is not gonna justify us.
Man next to our table: Why did man create the Sabbath?
Her: It was made for shadow of things to come. The Pharisees messed up because they thought they could be justified by it, and they would get off on technicalities but all of these things would not justifiy us, they are a shadow of things to come.
Man next to our table: But what is the covenant? Why would He bring in the physical man, the sinner’s flesh, and making Himself lower than the angels to come to this world and sacrifice Himself?
Her: that’s a really good question, and the bible answers it. It says to destroy the works of the devil.
Man next to our table: how exactly did He do that?
Her: By nailing our sins to the cross.
Man next to our table: Exactly.
Her: so if you just have faith in that
Man next to our table: actually there’s faith in that. To have faith in that, you have to do what He says. He made a standard right? On the cross, using His blood as a standard. Many churches use communion as bread and wine as Passover. Actually God gave us the Passover in His blood and then later was chained. Because Satan knows that we can be saved by the Passover. But many churches do not take the Passover but take communion, eucharist, sacrament in place of the Passover. Then how is Satan leading us astray. Jesus came all the way to this world right? From heaven, the son of man to give us salvation through His blood, taking away the works of Satan. But if we only use our minds to say, “thank you” but do not to “as I say,” then how can we obey Him?
Her: so you’re saying that’s doing it out of obedience to Christ?
Man next to our table: exactly. Cause Christ is lord, son of man, son of God. Who is he really? Do we really know who He is?
Her: Thanks for sharing that. I would just say, the Bible does say we can know where we go when we die. We trust in the blood of Christ, you can know where you’ll go, you’ll pass from death into life if you’re in the son. Just continue to read your bible and take an interest. Its really cool you’re reading. Its really scary to sit there say, “I don’t know where I’m going when I die.” Its covered with “I can know.”
Man next to our table: will I really know? Will I stay in faith till the end?
Her: so if you died now, where would you go? That’s a really huge question.
Man next to our table: I believe that I took the Passover and His blood. There is also unknowing sins we do everyday. So that’s why we take the blood, so we can have spiritual eyes. The lord gave us certain day to take the blood. Only in that day can the blood become his in his flesh.
Her: so say somebody doesn’t believe in Christ, if they took that blood, if they took the communion, does that automatically mean that they’re going to heaven?
Man next to our table: No. There’s a difference between Passover and communion. Communion is man-made.
Her: So if somebody took the Passover but didn’t believe, will it save them?
Man next to our table: No cause it would be in vain.
Her: So the Passover is just symbolic right? It doesn’t save.
Man next to our table: It does.
Her: so then a person that doesn’t believe and takes it, how does it get them into heaven?
Man next to our table: they have to believe.
Her: so you believe that saves you.
Man next to our table: Its everything. It cannot be one or the other.
Her: So what would you say about, you know there was a thief on the cross next to Jesus. And you know he didn’t take the Passover because he shortly died after believed and Jesus said, “today you will be with me in paradise.”
Man next to our table: That’s the Word of God. If God was here with you and he says “you will be with me in paradise,” will you believe Him or will you just scoff and laugh?
Her: I will believe Him. But what I’m just saying is that the Passover is just an act of obedience……
Man next to our table: we don’t have that, but we have His Passover. And we take it the way He wants it. But we do it our way, we do it on Sundays, “I don’t work on that day so its convenient.” But He said do it on this day.
END OF CONVERSATION-the man had to go. We kept in touch with him so hopefully next time!