Today's the day, don't get distracted: NY Civil Fraud Judgment due

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Yeshua HaDerekh

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But if he's shilling for the Democratic party, maybe you can show me where in his ruling he got the facts or the law wrong?
Already did above...as I have said before both the AG and the judge should have recused themselves because of their public comments regarding Trump IMO.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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A2SG

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Already did above...as I have said before both the AG and the judge should have recused themselves because of their public comments regarding Trump IMO.
No, you didn't. You offered your opinion, nothing more. You did not show where in Judge Engoron's ruling he got the facts or the law wrong.

And public comments are irrelevant. Those comments were not entered into evidence, so they weren't used against Trump during the trial.

This is why I've said: learn what evidence is used for in a court of law, and why it's important.

-- A2SG, and prosecutors believing defendants are guilty is pretty much a job description.....
 
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A2SG

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the judge decided he was liable for civil fraud.
Yup. Based on the evidence.

If you feel he got either the facts or the law wrong, feel free to show exactly how.

-- A2SG, assuming you're a lawyer with the same amount of experience in NY financial law as these folks.....
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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No, you didn't. You offered your opinion, nothing more. You did not show where in Judge Engoron's ruling he got the facts or the law wrong.

And public comments are irrelevant. Those comments were not entered into evidence, so they weren't used against Trump during the trial.
Well yes I did. What they did was unconstitutional. The judge had to make the call and if he and the AG were biased against Trump, it colored his ruling and judgement. AG used "I will get Trump" as her running mantra. Biased for sure. they ran everything and Trump did not stand a fair chance.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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assuming you're a lawyer with the same amount of experience in NY financial law as these folks.....
There are a ton of folks (lawyers, etc) that are and have already been commenting on it...the appeal will be interesting.
 
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A2SG

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Well yes I did. What they did was unconstitutional.
No, it wasn't.

The judge had to make the call and if he and the AG were biased against Trump, it colored his ruling and judgement.
How, exactly, did it color his judgment? Show me where in his ruling he got the facts or the law wrong.

AG used "I will get Trump" as her running mantra.
That's what prosecutors do. They prosecute people. With evidence. Which AG James had, in abundance.

Biased for sure. they ran everything and Trump did not stand a fair chance.
Of course he did. He had his own set of lawyers. The best lawyers willing to work for a guy who routinely doesn't pay the people who work for him.

-- A2SG, maybe he should have rethought that policy....
 
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A2SG

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There are a ton of folks (lawyers, etc) that are and have already been commenting on it...the appeal will be interesting.
Yup.

But, I'm sure, unless it goes Trump's way, many MAGAs will find a way to claim it is biased too.

-- A2SG, it's their go-to...Trump should not be held accountable for ANYTHING......
 
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7thKeeper

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Again, is this fine in line for others with similar judgements?
Disgorgement, but it's fine. And yes. From what I read, for the sums involved, the maximum calculated amount would have been around 380 something million, which was what the AG was asking for. The judge didn't go that high.
 
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Ana the Ist

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And that makes Trump's assessments not inflated? Or not deflated, depending on who the forms were intended for?

Face it, falsifying business records is illegal in NY.

I don't need to speak to whether or not assets were inflated. You missed the point entirely.



That's CNN buddy....not Fox News.

That finding, part of [COLOR=var(--theme-paragraph__link-color)]shocking ruling that found Trump and his adult sons liable for fraud,https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/politics/trump-organization-business-fraud/index.html was just one of multiple examples in which Judge Arthur Engoron found the Trump real estate empire to have been grossly inflated in value.[/COLOR]
But the Mar-a-Lago finding in particular is raising eyebrows among real estate and legal experts because of the metric Judge Engoron relied on: the county tax assessor’s appraisal value.

Now, you quoted the law....you dug your own hole. You made your own bed.

Appraisal fraud is based on fair market value? Right?

So either this judge is mentally impaired, corrupt, or merely unfit for the bench....but he shouldn't be going off tax assessments that have zip to do with fair market value.



That is what prosecutors do, after all.


And she found one. Well, more than one, actually.

And all without a criminal complaint. That's malicious prosecution. Obvious bias.




Yeah, and when you paraphrased her, you misrepresented her.

No I didn't....and I offered you a chance to explain her words yourself and you failed miserably.

She's not telling people who aren't breaking the law they should not worry about being prosecuted. Why would they worry about that?

You had your chance...I paraphrased her perfectly.
 
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A2SG

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I don't need to speak to whether or not assets were inflated. You missed the point entirely.
Considering that was one of the things Trump was charged with, it does seem pertinent.


That's CNN buddy....not Fox News.

That finding, part of [COLOR=var(--theme-paragraph__link-color)]shocking ruling that found Trump and his adult sons liable for fraud,https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/politics/trump-organization-business-fraud/index.html was just one of multiple examples in which Judge Arthur Engoron found the Trump real estate empire to have been grossly inflated in value.[/COLOR]
But the Mar-a-Lago finding in particular is raising eyebrows among real estate and legal experts because of the metric Judge Engoron relied on: the county tax assessor’s appraisal value.
Funny, but you missed the very next line of that piece:

But it’s widely known that the tax assessor valuation is typically, though not always, less than what a property would command on the open market.

And therein lies the problem. Mar A Lago cannot command an "open market" price, due to easements.

As I pointed out earlier.

See, the easements on Mar A Lago means there are restrictions on the property, such as how it can be used and what it can be used for, which affect its market value. Meaning it cannot be sold for the figures Trump alleges it's worth...so it's not actually worth that.


Now, you quoted the law....you dug your own hole. You made your own bed.
Not at all. The assessor's appraisal value is what Trump paid taxes on. It's "fair market value" is limited, due to the easements Trump got for the tax breaks. So the value Trump continues to attribute to it isn't based on what the property can actually be sold for.

Appraisal fraud is based on fair market value? Right?

So either this judge is mentally impaired, corrupt, or merely unfit for the bench....but he shouldn't be going off tax assessments that have zip to do with fair market value.
Or he knew about the easements, and you didn't.

Even though I mentioned them before.

And all without a criminal complaint. That's malicious prosecution. Obvious bias.
There was a complaint, issued by the AG's office. In civil court, not criminal.


If you see bias in that, feel free to point out exactly where it is.

No I didn't....and I offered you a chance to explain her words yourself and you failed miserably.
Are you somehow under the impression I'm her press secretary or her spokesperson?

I'm not.

And neither are you.

She can speak for herself.

She's not telling people who aren't breaking the law they should not worry about being prosecuted. Why would they worry about that?

You had your chance...I paraphrased her perfectly.
Nope, you mischaracterized her. Read her own words again, she didn't say what you pretended she said.

-- A2SG, you are, of course, free to believe whatever you wish...but she's not beholden to your imagination.....
 
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Ana the Ist

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Considering that was one of the things Trump was charged with, it does seem pertinent.

We did this already.

You embarrassed yourself when you described the crime as being based off fair market value.

Were you aware that the AG and judge didn't go off fair market value in their politically motivated attack?


Funny, but you missed the very next line of that piece:

But it’s widely known that the tax assessor valuation is typically, though not always, less than what a property would command on the open market.

And therein lies the problem.

Less than the property would command on the open market.




Mar A Lago cannot command an "open market" price, due to easements.

Easements can, but don't always, affect open market value. The idea that the property doesn't have a "fair market value" doesn't even make sense.

Is this confusing? Do you need a nap?
As I pointed out earlier.

See, the easements on Mar A Lago means there are restrictions on the property, such as how it can be used and what it can be used for, which affect its market value.
Easements....which affect it's market value.....

So we agree it has a market value.

Why did the dumb politically motivated judge decide to use the tax assessment value instead of the market value?

No real estate expert in the US has been able to explain that....so I'm definitely going to want more than your meager explanation.

Not at all. The assessor's appraisal value is what Trump paid taxes on.

Right, as the link I provided earlier explained....this is often a assessment that is a fraction of the market value.
There was a complaint, issued by the AG's office. In civil court, not criminal.

Right....malacious prosecution. A man no other citizen accused of crime was investigated for a crime by an AG trying to make a name for herself.
If you see bias in that, feel free to point out exactly where it is.

You've basically admitted it.


Are you somehow under the impression I'm her press secretary or her spokesperson?

No no no....lol no.

No I promise....I don't think you'd be able to interpret her English into English.

If you're going to insist my paraphrasing is wrong though....you'll need to provide a sensible and rational explanation of the bizarre statement she made.

Otherwise your opinion means nothing to me.
 
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HARK!

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MOD HAT ON

DUE TO MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS


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MOD HAT OFF
 
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