To whom and why God gave the Sabbaths?

[SAAN]

You make no sense at all. You're ignoring what is written for your theories. Jesus was not a minister of the New Covenant because it came after His death.

More flim-flam...good luck with that.

My theories are coming right from the bible.

Flim-Flam? Those are the words of Paul himself, so the proof is right there.

 

[Cribstyl]

My theories are coming right from the bible.

Flim-Flam? Those are the words of Paul himself, so the proof is right there.

Your proof is words taken from a context that says the opposite of what you're presenting.
Try to remember that Paul is writing letters, not sound bites. Read again what the paragraph is saying: Rom3:21-31. You should have no doubt that Paul is talking about; A way to be righteous without keeping the law. And that fact was prophesied in the OT.
Rom 3:21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses[fn] and the prophets long ago.
Rom 3:28 sums up this matter saying;
Rom3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

So Rom 3:31 is saying: through faith, the requirements of the law are met.

 

[Soyeong]

Adam was given a commandment... Do not eat of...

Abraham was given commandments... Go to a land I will show you...
Circumcise your male offspring...

The children of Israel were given commandments... Keep the Sabbath...

They were not all given the same commandments as you are attempting to imply.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


.

God has always been holy, righteous, and good, so He has always had such a conduct, and His law is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) because it is based on God's holiness, righteousness, and goodness, and because it is His instructions for how to have such a conduct. This means that the way to have such a conduct existed from the beginning before God made any covenants with man, it exists independently of any covenant, and it can not change unless God's holiness, righteousness, and goodness changes first. So unless you are arguing that God's character changed when the seed should come to whom the promise was made, then the way to act in line with God's character remained the same, as it was revealed to Moses.

Genesis 26:5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”

God did not leave His people without instructions prior to Moses, but rather they knew how to do what is holy, righteous, and good because they listened to God's voice. Cain and Abel had been given instructions about how to make offerings, Noah had been given instructions in regard to clean and unclean animals, and Abraham was given commandments, statutes, and laws, which refers to a way of living that clearly covered more than two specific instructions.

The law was given to teach of the love of God for the whole of His creation until the love of God would come and remedy the sins that separated God from His creation. The law wasn't given as a trap, but to make us aware of our sin and to give us a remedy from those transgressions so that we might learn and move on to lives that bring honor on to God. Paul was certainly not saying that now that now that the seed to whom the promise was made has come that we can now feel free to dishonor God by going to back to doing what He has revealed to be sin and the lawlessness that he redeemed us from.

Hebrews 7:12 is essentially saying that an eternal High Priest could not come from the Aaronic line, not that God's holiness, righteousness, or goodness or the way to live in line with that need to be changed.

 

[BABerean2]

Paul IS NOT greater than Jesus and has ZERO authority to add or take away ANY commands in the bible. Only God or Jesus himself can do that.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Mat 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.


Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Mar_15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.


Heb_7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Peter said the same thing when dealing with the Judaisers.


Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?



Claiming there is something wrong with the Holy Spirit inspired Apostle Paul would be to go off the road and into the ditch.
It would be better not to go in that direction.

.

 

[BABerean2]

So unless you are arguing that God's character changed when the seed should come to whom the promise was made, then the way to act in line with God's character remained the same, as it was revealed to Moses.

Based on your logic we must circumcise our male children, just as Abraham did.

However, I do not have to be circumcised, because there was one who was God in human form and He was circumcised for me, on the 8th day of His life.

He owns me, because He bought me with His Blood.

He kept all of God's commandments, perfectly.

If you think you can do the same, then you do not need Him.

Gal 5:3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.
Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.


.

 

[bugkiller]

My theories are coming right from the bible.

Flim-Flam? Those are the words of Paul himself, so the proof is right there.

Yeah right.

Reconcile this with your theories -

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Rom 10

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

God has always been holy, righteous, and good, so He has always had such a conduct, and His law is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) because it is based on God's holiness, righteousness, and goodness, and because it is His instructions for how to have such a conduct. This means that the way to have such a conduct existed from the beginning before God made any covenants with man, it exists independently of any covenant, and it can not change unless God's holiness, righteousness, and goodness changes first. So unless you are arguing that God's character changed when the seed should come to whom the promise was made, then the way to act in line with God's character remained the same, as it was revealed to Moses.

Genesis 26:5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”

God did not leave His people without instructions prior to Moses, but rather they knew how to do what is holy, righteous, and good because they listened to God's voice. Cain and Abel had been given instructions about how to make offerings, Noah had been given instructions in regard to clean and unclean animals, and Abraham was given commandments, statutes, and laws, which refers to a way of living that clearly covered more than two specific instructions.

The law was given to teach of the love of God for the whole of His creation until the love of God would come and remedy the sins that separated God from His creation. The law wasn't given as a trap, but to make us aware of our sin and to give us a remedy from those transgressions so that we might learn and move on to lives that bring honor on to God. Paul was certainly not saying that now that now that the seed to whom the promise was made has come that we can now feel free to dishonor God by going to back to doing what He has revealed to be sin and the lawlessness that he redeemed us from.

Hebrews 7:12 is essentially saying that an eternal High Priest could not come from the Aaronic line, not that God's holiness, righteousness, or goodness or the way to live in line with that need to be changed.

You have a very unusual Bible. It sure isn't like mine.

bugkiller

 

[Soyeong]

Based on your logic we must circumcise our male children, just as Abraham did.

However, I do not have to be circumcised, because there was one who was God in human form and He was circumcised for me, on the 8th day of His life.

He owns me, because He bought me with His Blood.

He kept all of God's commandments, perfectly.

If you think you can do the same, then you do not need Him.

Gal 5:3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.
Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.


.

It does not follow at all that we must circumcise our male children, just as Abraham did. There are two times where the Bible commands Gentiles to be circumcised, neither of which applies to all Gentiles everywhere. You do not have to be circumcised because God never required it in the first place, and if He had required it of all Gentiles, then you should obey God instead of Paul and the Jerusalem Council because they were never given any authority to countermand God.

God's law has many purposes, but providing the means of our justification through our own effort has never been one of them. The one and only way to become justified is by faith, so Moses was justified by faith before the law was given to him, so obtaining justification was never its purpose in the first place. It does not follow that because we shouldn't obey God's law for a purpose for which it was never intended that therefore we shouldn't obey it for any of the purposes for which it was intended.

Jesus summarized the law as being about how to love God and how to love your neighbor, so saying that Jesus was circumcised so that you don't have to is like saying that Jesus loved God and his neighbor so that you don't have to. Rather, Jesus gave a perfect example of how to walk in obedience the law, and we are told to follow his example, to walk in the same way that he did, to imitate him, and to be like him.

 

[BABerean2]

It does not follow at all that we must circumcise our male children, just as Abraham did. There are two times where the Bible commands Gentiles to be circumcised, neither of which applies to all Gentiles everywhere. You do not have to be circumcised because God never required it in the first place, and if He had required it of all Gentiles, then you should obey God instead of Paul and the Jerusalem Council because they were never given any authority to countermand God.

God's law has many purposes, but providing the means of our justification through our own effort has never been one of them. The one and only way to become justified is by faith, so Moses was justified by faith before the law was given to him, so obtaining justification was never its purpose in the first place. It does not follow that because we shouldn't obey God's law for a purpose for which it was never intended that therefore we shouldn't obey it for any of the purposes for which it was intended.

Jesus summarized the law as being about how to love God and how to love your neighbor, so saying that Jesus was circumcised so that you don't have to is like saying that Jesus loved God and his neighbor so that you don't have to. Rather, Jesus gave a perfect example of how to walk in obedience the law, and we are told to follow his example, to walk in the same way that he did, to imitate him, and to be like him.

Gentiles also did not have the law of Moses. It was given to the children of Israel at Sinai.

Therefore, by your own logic above, Gentiles are not required to follow the Sinai covenant.

However, your logic is also correct in that we are to follow Him in faith and His fulfillment of the whole law.

The sacrifices, the Levitical priesthood, the Sabbaths, the curses, the whole thing was finished with His last three words on the Cross.

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Mar_15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The Apostle Peter at the Jerusalem Council and the Apostle Paul spoke for Christ, through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit from God.

If you cannot agree with Peter or Paul, you have gone into the ditch.

.

 

[SAAN]

Gentiles also did not have the law of Moses. It was given to the children of Israel at Sinai.

Therefore, by your own logic above, Gentiles are not required to follow the Sinai covenant.

However, your logic is also correct in that we are to follow Him in faith and His fulfillment of the whole law.

The sacrifices, the Levitical priesthood, the Sabbaths, the curses, the whole thing was finished with His last three words on the Cross.

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Mar_15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The Apostle Peter at the Jerusalem Council and the Apostle Paul spoke for Christ, through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit from God.

If you cannot agree with Peter or Paul, you have gone into the ditch.

.

Ephesians 2:11-13
Brought Near by His Blood
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.


Before Gentiles could be grafted into the convent, the bible clearly states they had no hope, so there is no such thing as Jew or Gentiles commands, we are all one in Christ and have the same set of laws to follow.

 

[BABerean2]

we are all one in Christ and have the same set of laws to follow.

Correct.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


Not this...

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?


Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

.

 

[bugkiller]

Ephesians 2:11-13
Brought Near by His Blood
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.


Before Gentiles could be grafted into the convent, the bible clearly states they had no hope, so there is no such thing as Jew or Gentiles commands, we are all one in Christ and have the same set of laws to follow.

Gentiles aren't graft into the covenant given at Sinai.

bugkiller

 

[Cribstyl]

It's fruitless trying to correct some people by showing them what the scriptures say on a matter that they bring up. They will ignore the truth because their false teaching depends on spin.

 

[BABerean2]

It's fruitless trying to correct some people by showing them what the scriptures say on a matter that they bring up. They will ignore the truth because their false teaching depends on spin.

They are immersed in doctrines of ignorance.
I do not mean they are of low intelligence.
I mean they are somehow able to ignore the scripture that proves their doctrine is not correct.

This is what the Judaisers did in Paul's time.
They kept trying to keep the Law of Moses and circumcision.
They are still with us today, making the very same arguments.
There are some here who even dare to say that the words of Peter and Paul are wrong, and cannot see the error of corrupting the New Testament.

However, we cannot give up on them, because He did not give up on us.

Thank you for speaking the truth in love.

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[EastCoastRemnant]

Let the Sinai covenant of bondage go. The yoke has served its purpose.

If the 10 Commandments were such a galling burden, why do we read...

Psalm 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 40:8
I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Psalm 119:142
Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psalm 119:172
My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Isaiah 42:21
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

You make no sense at all. You're ignoring what is written for your theories. Jesus was not a minister of the New Covenant because it came after His death.

Nothing could come after the covenant was sealed with Christ's blood... if it wasn't codified before His death, then it's not binding after. Lesson on contracts 101...

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

If Sabbath was given to Adam, then all men would comply to God or God has no control over His created beings.

That doesn't even make sense Crib, even for you. Your saying that all God had to do was prove Sabbath was given to Adam and all would have right in the world? Did it occur to you that the rebellion of Adam and Eve may have had something to do with it? The same rebellion that is being promulgated today?

 

[Travis93]

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Leviticus 24:22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.
Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
Isaiah 56:6 And the sons of the stranger that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, everyone that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isaiah 56:7 Even them I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for my house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

 

[BABerean2]

If the 10 Commandments were such a galling burden, why do we read...

Psalm 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 40:8
I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Psalm 119:142
Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psalm 119:172
My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Isaiah 42:21
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Peter said it was a yoke, because they could not keep it.

Write the 10 commandments on a 100 pound piece of metal and then put a log chain on it.
There will be nothing wrong with the commandments, but if you put the chain around your neck and try to wear it like a necklace, you will find out what a yoke is.

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?


The galling will occur on the skin of your neck, in the process.

.

 

[Travis93]

The unbearable yoke is the oral law/tradition of the elders, not God's own law. The Apostles did not have the authority to take away God's law (Deuteronomy 4:2), and if that's what they were actually doing they'd be false prophets (Deuteronomy 13:1-5, Isaiah 8:20). Luckily that isn't what they did, they gave them those four laws to get started and recommended attending the synagogue to learn the rest every sabbath (Acts 15:21).