To those who support Danmark...

[Eudaimonist]

I am just here to put one thing only, and it is directed to those who support this nasty action under the title of "freedom of expression".

I would like to ask, if it is ok to anyone to express his opinion about any issue. would it be ok if anyone chose to deny the Holocoast??

Yes, this would be okay with me. I would speak out against such a false view, but I would not use the force of law or mob violence to try to prevent such speech. Bad ideas are best countered by good ideas, not guns or death threats.



eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[tanzanos]

I have not been here since long time. I am just come now to pose few lines about the issue of the abusing Karecators about our Noble Prophet Mohamed, peace be upon him.

I know that alot of people have discussed this issue, from Muslims side and non Muslims side. I know that almost everything is said in this case.

I am just here to put one thing only, and it is directed to those who support this nasty action under the title of "freedom of expression".

I would like to ask, if it is ok to anyone to express his opinion about any issue. would it be ok if anyone chose to deny the Holocoast??

we all know what heppebed, and what will happen, to those who just tried to dout in the existing of the Holocoast!!

so why it is ok to anyone to abuse Muslims, and it is not allowed to anyone to utter a word against the Jews?

I am talking about those who live in Europe and USA, which are supposed to be the lands of freedom.

if the answer of my above question is "No", and I am sure that this will be the only answer, I would like then to say one sentence to all of you:

Please, stop this HYPOCRICY!! Because it is so disgusting!!

Firstly the holocaust is an historical fact and not a religion. Secondly Denmark is a sovereign state and has its own laws which are not sharia laws. If you want to stone to death a woman for looking at a man then do it in your own country. In Europe we practice freedom of speech because we support democracy. Anyone who purports to support the idea that the holocaust never happened will be proved wrong by the overwhelming evidence against him. He will not be put to death.

It is ideas such as yours that give Islam a bad name. Just as I will have to respect the laws in your country when I am there; so will you respect the laws of other countries when you are there. You may voice your opinion against our laws but you may not threaten with bodily harm those that you disagree with because it is against the law in Europe to do so.

If you do not like how we live in Europe then don't come here. Of course if you are willing to respect our laws then you are welcome.

 

[Ramona]

If someone is spreading violent ideas and lies, you combat them through intelligent solutions and truth...not violence, and not oppression.

You will encounter people with different views from your own. Some of these views will be misguided, offensive, or just plain mean. You want to show them why they are wrong using intellect and reason if you are to convey your points. By silencing them you're just adding fuel to the fire.

Welcome back to NCR, Raja.

 

[Secundulus]

so why it is ok to anyone to abuse Muslims, and it is not allowed to anyone to utter a word against the Jews?

Muslims get off easy because most of the cowardly artists and press in the USA are afraid of them.

If you really care then speak out against the display of a crucifix in a jar of urine or a picture of the Blessed Virgin made from cow dung.

If you cannot speak out against these things also then why do you care about the abuse of Muslims?

Are you afraid also or have you simply bought into the politically correct notion that it is ok to abuse Christianity but not ok to abuse anyone else?

 

[Raja]

I have not been here since long time. I am just come now to pose few lines about the issue of the abusing Karecators about our Noble Prophet Mohamed, peace be upon him.

I know that alot of people have discussed this issue, from Muslims side and non Muslims side. I know that almost everything is said in this case.

I am just here to put one thing only, and it is directed to those who support this nasty action under the title of "freedom of expression".

I would like to ask, if it is ok to anyone to express his opinion about any issue. would it be ok if anyone chose to deny the Holocoast??

we all know what heppebed, and what will happen, to those who just tried to dout in the existing of the Holocoast!!

so why it is ok to anyone to abuse Muslims, and it is not allowed to anyone to utter a word against the Jews?

I am talking about those who live in Europe and USA, which are supposed to be the lands of freedom.

if the answer of my above question is "No", and I am sure that this will be the only answer, I would like then to say one sentence to all of you:

Please, stop this HYPOCRICY!! Because it is so disgusting!!

 

[peepnklown]

I would like to ask, if it is ok to anyone to express his opinion about any issue?

Yes. The point of freedom of speech (expression) is the freedom to express unpopular views without the tyranny of the mob. If you want to read about liberty I would recommend reading everything Thomas Jefferson wrote.

 

[Vene]

Yes, this would be okay with me. I would speak out against such a false view, but I would not use the force of law or mob violence to try to prevent such speech. Bad ideas are best countered by good ideas, not guns or death threats.



eudaimonia,

Mark

Yes. The point of freedom of speech (expression) is the freedom to express unpopular views without the tyranny of the mob. If you want to read about liberty I would recommend reading everything Thomas Jefferson wrote.

I agree with both of these. Allowing free speech for only popular ideas is not free speech.

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste Raja,

thank you for the post.

I have not been here since long time. I am just come now to pose few lines about the issue of the abusing Karecators about our Noble Prophet Mohamed, peace be upon him.

firstly i don't think that the cartoon depictions of Muhammad were abusive and, interestingly, commissioned by Muslims iirc.

I know that alot of people have discussed this issue, from Muslims side and non Muslims side. I know that almost everything is said in this case.

why do i have the feeling that you not only don't know almost everything that has been said regarding this but that such a declaration is your announcement that you actually have no interest in conversation regarding this subject even though you started it?

I am just here to put one thing only, and it is directed to those who support this nasty action under the title of "freedom of expression".

i wouldn't call it nasty and i would suggest that you investigate the term "satire".

naturally i would support someones right to express their views even if i didn't agree with those views... and to be perfectly honest with you i find it very strange that some people don't hold this view.

I would like to ask, if it is ok to anyone to express his opinion about any issue. would it be ok if anyone chose to deny the Holocoast??

sure, they can express whatever view that they wish provided that it doesn't violate the laws of their country, iirc Germany has a law which makes it a crime to say that the Holocaust was not real.

many people have views which others do not agree with and are perfectly free to express them even on a topic as incontrovertible as the Holocaust. one can, if they choose, also talk about how the Mongols didn't invade Persia... but they wouldn't be correct, of course.

we all know what heppebed, and what will happen, to those who just tried to dout in the existing of the Holocoast!!

not all of us know.. can you tell me so that i can know too?

so why it is ok to anyone to abuse Muslims, and it is not allowed to anyone to utter a word against the Jews?

who said that you couldn't? i'm thinking that you really don't understand political satire very well.

I am talking about those who live in Europe and USA, which are supposed to be the lands of freedom.

if the answer of my above question is "No", and I am sure that this will be the only answer, I would like then to say one sentence to all of you:

Please, stop this HYPOCRICY!! Because it is so disgusting!!

i suppose that you were wrong about the only answer being "no" as well as several other things in this post.

change your mind.

metta,

~v

 

[Ramona]

If someone is spreading violent ideas and lies, you combat them through intelligent solutions and truth...not violence, and not oppression.

You will encounter people with different views from your own. Some of these views will be misguided, offensive, or just plain mean. You want to show them why they are wrong using intellect and reason if you are to convey your points. By silencing them you're just adding fuel to the fire that is already burning inside of their hearts.

Welcome back to NCR, Raja.

 

[ArcticKnight]

I am just here to put one thing only, and it is directed to those who support this nasty action under the title of "freedom of expression".

I would like to ask, if it is ok to anyone to express his opinion about any issue. would it be ok if anyone chose to deny the Holocoast??

I believe that everyone should have the freedom to express themself any way they want, so long as they do not phyically harm or impede anyone else.

If a person want to say that the U.S. is the most vile and evil nation on the planet, it is their right to exress themself that way. Of course, it is also my right to express myself by calling them an idiot. Neither of us has harmed anyone, nor have we impeded anyone.

As a great man once said, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it."

so why it is ok to anyone to abuse Muslims, and it is not allowed to anyone to utter a word against the Jews?

Expressing one's thoughts, ideas, beliefs, etc. through word, writing, pictures, etc. is not abuse. A person who says the Holocaust did not happen is not abusing Jews. A person who draws a caricature of Mohamed is not abusing Muslims. A person who writes a book criticizing the U.S. is not abusing Americans.

I am talking about those who live in Europe and USA, which are supposed to be the lands of freedom.

I am a citizen of the U.S. and I live in Europe. Freedom is not restrictred to being free to do/say things that other agree with, it is also the freedom to disagree. In fact, true freedom allows someone the freedom to be an idiot.

[if the answer of my above question is "No", and I am sure that this will be the only answer, I would like then to say one sentence to all of you:

Please, stop this HYPOCRICY!! Because it is so disgusting!!

It is not hypocrisy to allow everyone the same freedom to express themselves. In fact, it would be hypocrisy to allow one group of people to express themselves, no matter how controversal, while not allowing another group to express themselves in an equal manner.

 

[seekyo]

Please, stop this HYPOCRICY!! Because it is so disgusting!!

And I suppose you were against the Taleban bombing the Buddhists statues carved in the mountain. Right?

 

[anatolian]

I think the freedom of speach is a different thing, disrespect against the values of "people" is a different thing.

 

[Vene]

I think the freedom of speach is a different thing, disrespect against the values of "people" is a different thing.

Then it's not free speech.

 

[Ramona]

Then it's not free speech.

Quite certainly.

Hello Vene!

 

[anatolian]

I think the freedom of speach is a different thing, disrespect against the values of "people" is a different thing.

Then it's not free speech.

Quite certainly.

Hello Vene!

So, why did you stand against my avatar?

 

[Ramona]

So, why did you stand against my avatar?

Because this is a message board, where the rules are a lot different than they laws that are in place in places like Denmark. If you wanted to fly that flag you made your avatar in your backyard in my city, it'd be different.

Make sense?

Also FYI, I'm on LOA from staff and won't be around for a bit.

 

[Futuwwa]

So, why did you stand against my avatar?

Because it was not an expression of an opinion, but a provocation. Whatever was the message of the avatar, it could have been expressed in more serious, less offensive ways. Freedom of speech be damned; if I were the caliph, you would not be allowed to fly that flag even in your backyard.

 

[Vene]

So, why did you stand against my avatar?

I didn't. I am very much anti-censorship.

 

[anatolian]

Because this is a message board, where the rules are a lot different than they laws that are in place in places like Denmark. If you wanted to fly that flag you made your avatar in your backyard in my city, it'd be different...

So you are saying you did stand against my avatar because the forum rules are against it but it was ok according to your life view? Ok.

 

[anatolian]

Because it was not an expression of an opinion, but a provocation. Whatever was the message of the avatar, it could have been expressed in more serious, less offensive ways. Freedom of speech be damned; if I were the caliph, you would not be allowed to fly that flag even in your backyard.

I know that the flag was abusive,anyway I wasn't planning to keep it there for a long time BUT I seriously have come to conclusion that as long as we don't apply those kind of abbusive methods NOthing will change in the minds of people.