There’s nothing wrong with date setting

[Done222]

Jesus made it clear in several statements that we are to watch for His return. He also said that no ones knows the day and hour of His return, and that statement is often used to silence much of the discussion concerning His return. People are often accused of “date setting” for even suggesting that the end of days is not far away.

If I look at events in the Bible and I calculate that Jesus will return on Mar 16, 2017, would that be a sin? Jesus didn’t say that we should not try and determine the day and hour of His return, but that we cannot know the day and hour of his return. We should not be like the Millerites who quit their jobs and settled their estates because they firmly believed that Jesus would return on a particular day. There is nothing wrong in trying to determine the day and hour of the return of Christ…we just need to understand that we don’t have certain knowledge.

It means that we should keep an open mind as we look for the return of Christ. We should keep an open mind, not only concerning the day and hour, but concerning every detail of the return of Christ. We should have an unshakable faith in Christ, but we should not have an unshakeable faith in our interpretation of prophecy. We will not see clear fulfillment of prophecy when we are expecting it to happen in some other way.

Date setters are often accused of weakening the faith. It is said that when people set dates and they turn out to be wrong it causes some people to lose faith. If a date setter is wrong it should cause us to lose faith in the date setter, but not in God or the Bible. If a person loses faith in God because of a date setter, I would question if that person ever had faith to begin with. Those who have faith in Christ try to do what He told them to do. One of the things He told them to do was to look for His return.

 

[ebedmelech]

Yes there is. It misleads people. Look at the people that really believed what Harold Camping was saying.

You never see date setting in scripture. We are told to serve God with the expectations of Christ return...but never told when he will return.

 

[Done222]

We shouldn’t claim to have authority like Camping or Miller. There’s nothing wrong with speculating. Actually, that’s what we are supposed to do. To look for His return implies not only looking for prophecy to be fulfilled, not only looking for signs of the times, but also trying to determine what the signs mean (which is to say trying to discuss what will happen as events unfold). Right or wrong, if we can be free to discuss the details of what will happen we should be free to discuss the timing.

 

[Interplanner]

a large part of date setting is confusingly assuming that the material about the 1st century and Judea is about now and looking for things to happen now. Bible2 does this routinely when he thinks the fleeing in Judea has something to do with the fact that there are still Gentile Christian churches in Israel now.

ie, if you don't think Mt 24A & //s have to do with our 'now' you will have fewer 'juicy' details to try to find timestamps for.

And anyway, datesetting should not become too much of a task. Nowhere close to explaining the Gospel and Christ's reign in the Gospel.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus made it clear in several statements that we are to watch for His return. He also said that no ones knows the day and hour of His return, and that statement is often used to silence much of the discussion concerning His return. People are often accused of “date setting” for even suggesting that the end of days is not far away.

If I look at events in the Bible and I calculate that Jesus will return on Mar 16, 2017, would that be a sin?

No it would not be a sin, imo. But it probably would be against forum rules.

It's an imperfect world.

Doug

 

[Douggg]

a large part of date setting is confusingly assuming that the material about the 1st century and Judea is about now and looking for things to happen now. Bible2 does this routinely when he thinks the fleeing in Judea has something to do with the fact that there are still Gentile Christian churches in Israel now.

ie, if you don't think Mt 24A & //s have to do with our 'now' you will have fewer 'juicy' details to try to find timestamps for.

And anyway, datesetting should not become too much of a task. Nowhere close to explaining the Gospel and Christ's reign in the Gospel.

Actually, "datesetting" is a misnomer. What we are actually talking about is future datesetting. As you have set dates of things happening in the past, which you have set dates as first century.


Doug

 

[Jipsah]

Jesus made it clear in several statements that we are to watch for His return.

Which has nothing to do with trying to predict when He'll be back.

He also said that no ones knows the day and hour of His return, and that statement is often used to silence much of the discussion concerning His return.

Yeah, you'd think that when the Lord Himself said "You ain't gonna know" that'd settle it.

People are often accused of “date setting” for even suggesting that the end of days is not far away.

That in itsel isn;t date setting, but date setters all say that, don't they?

If I look at events in the Bible and I calculate that Jesus will return on Mar 16, 2017, would that be a sin?

Dunno. At best it's pretty stupid. At worst it's you implicitly saying "Jesus said we wouldn't know, but He was wrong, because I know." That may not be a sin, but it sure isn't a very clever position to take.

Jesus didn’t say that we should not try and determine the day and hour of His return

Or to throw rocks at the moon. But neither practice is particularly profitable.

Date setters are often accused of weakening the faith. It is said that when people set dates and they turn out to be wrong it causes some people to lose faith.

It especially makes all Christians look like the same sort of mullethead who keeps predicting the End of the World.

 

[Interplanner]

there is no comparison Doug between Camping and the scholar M. Hengel's "Was Jesus a Revolutionist?" I'm not "date setting." What a foolish comparison.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

We shouldn’t claim to have authority like Camping or Miller. There’s nothing wrong with speculating. Actually, that’s what we are supposed to do. To look for His return implies not only looking for prophecy to be fulfilled, not only looking for signs of the times, but also trying to determine what the signs mean (which is to say trying to discuss what will happen as events unfold). Right or wrong, if we can be free to discuss the details of what will happen we should be free to discuss the timing.

I believe He is coming in the heavens
out of His temple door
to call me to be gathered together unto Him, there
with the dead in Christ souls in their resurrected bodies
and the regenerated in bodies living in Christ saints, who comprise those who are "Watching and praying to be counted worthy to escape all the wrath coming on all the inhabitants of the earth"
(in the time of Jacob's trouble)
and to stand before Him as a priest of heaven's temple
dressed in my New Man "robe of righteousness" made for "Glory"
and celebrating my consecration to the priesthood of heaven
for one full week of seven days, there

and I believe He is coming in about 5 minutes.

Every day of my life, I believe He is coming and will call me "in about 5 minutes" and I will believe it until it happens or until I depart the body and go to be with Him where He is, to await my resurrected body.

Until that happens, I will "Occupy until He comes", as He said to do.

 

[keras]

No one knows the Day?
When I talk with Christian people, saying about how my studies in the prophetic Word lead me to believe that there is coming an imminent judgement of all mankind and by using times given to us with simple mathematics, we can know when this will happen, then very often they say: ‘no one knows the Day or the hour’. My reply to them is; ‘You have just opened yourself up to the accusation of quoting verses out of context’.
I ask them to read Matthew 24:35-36 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My Words will never pass away. Yet about that Day and hour, no one knows, not the angels, not the Son, no one but the Father alone.
This passage refers to the time that the ‘heaven and earth will pass away’, and as we read in Revelation 20 and Isaiah 65:17, it is the time at the end of the Millennium, ‘when all things are made new’. It is the final wrap up of God’s creation, ‘the victor’s heritage and the second death of all those who refused to obey Him’.
People who say that we cannot know God’s plans for our time, are those who have found Bible prophecy just too difficult to comprehend or to reconcile with teachings and theories they have come to believe. Some simply do not want to know, which is a very poor attitude that shows a moral laziness. The prophet Daniel 12:9, tells us the prophecies are to be kept secret until the time of the end, then there will be some wise leaders who will understand. We are very close to that time, known by the time periods given us and simply by the current state of the world. The promise of God is that anyone who makes the effort with an open mind and in faith and prayer, then God will reveal His plan to them. You deny these scriptures if you say: ‘No one knows the Day’:
Isaiah 48:16 Draw near to Me and hear this: From the beginning, I have never spoken in secret, I will be there at the time of fulfilment.
Isaiah 46:9-10 I am God, there is none like Me. From the beginning, I reveal the end.
Amos 3:7 Indeed the Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to the prophets.
Revelation 1:1 This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, to show His servants what must soon take place.

Ezekiel 12:25 The Lord says to Judah [the Jewish people] You rebellious people, what I threaten will be done within your lifetime. Luke 21:32
A lifetime: Three score and ten = 70 years. Judah came back to the Land in 1948, so before 2018, the Lord will act.
Ezekiel 12:19-20 The Lord says to the people of Jerusalem in the Land of Israel: [the Jewish people in the State of Israel] You will eat and drink in fear and horror because of your sins and ungodliness and the Land will become barren and empty. The towns will be deserted and the land will be a wasteland. [Not fulfilled as yet]
1 Thess. 5:1-6... the Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly, while they are saying: all is peaceful, all secure, then sudden destruction is upon them and there is no escape. But you, friends, are not in the dark that Day will not surprise you.
‘they, them’, refers to the godless peoples, but it also applies to those who have failed to discern the prophetic Word, who will be surprised and shocked by this event.
‘all peaceful, all secure’, If an agreement is made soon between the PLO and Israel.
Destruction is upon them’,The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied and described more than 100 times throughout the Bible, as a devastating fire, a sunstrike that will affect the whole world. Most people will survive, but of all the Middle Eastern area, only a remnant in Jerusalem. Then the rest of the prophecies will unfold.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme said in post 9:

I believe He is coming in the heavens
out of His temple door
to call me to be gathered together unto Him, there
with the dead in Christ souls in their resurrected bodies
and the regenerated in bodies living in Christ saints, who comprise those who are "Watching and praying to be counted worthy to escape all the wrath coming on all the inhabitants of the earth"
(in the time of Jacob's trouble)
and to stand before Him as a priest of heaven's temple

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (Luke 21:36).

Note that Luke 21:36 doesn't require a pre-tribulation rapture, for some in the church will escape all of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 by dying before it begins (Isaiah 57:1), and others in the church will escape all of it by being physically protected on the earth during it (Revelation 12:14-16, Psalms 91). Those who will escape it by dying before it begins will stand before the Lord in heaven (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). And those who will escape it by being miraculously protected on the earth during it will stand before the Lord in the sky at the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17), which won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

yeshuasavedme said in post 9:

I believe He is coming in the heavens
out of His temple door
to call me to be gathered together unto Him, there
with the dead in Christ souls in their resurrected bodies
and the regenerated in bodies living in Christ saints, who comprise those who are "Watching and praying to be counted worthy to escape all the wrath coming on all the inhabitants of the earth"
(in the time of Jacob's trouble)
and to stand before Him as a priest of heaven's temple

"Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it" (Jeremiah 30:7).

The time of Jacob's trouble which he will be saved out of (Jeremiah 30:7) won't be the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, but only the final pillaging of the Jews in Jerusalem at the very end of the tribulation, right before Jesus returns and saves them (Zechariah 14:2-5). The church, including Gentile believers (Revelation 7:9,14), will be in the tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6).

yeshuasavedme said in post 9:

and I believe He is coming in about 5 minutes.

Note that Jesus can't come in about 5 minutes, because he won't come and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's why the marriage of the church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' 2nd coming and the bodily resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church, and the Antichrist sits in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

At Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the church will be resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and all the world's armies (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

 

[Bible2]

keras said in post 10:

. . . Luke 21:32
A lifetime: Three score and ten = 70 years. Judah came back to the Land in 1948, so before 2018, the Lord will act.

Luke 21:32 and Matthew 24:34 could indeed mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. But a temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

Also, this doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

~

The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming, for it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel that was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit, for it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman army.

 

[Bible2]

Done222 said in post 3:

Right or wrong, if we can be free to discuss the details of what will happen we should be free to discuss the timing.

Interesting point.

Matthew 24:36,42,44 refers to Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:37,42,44), which Jesus had just finished saying won't happen until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). So in Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus can mean that only if believers don't watch (stay awake, spiritually) during the tribulation, the 2nd coming will happen at an hour they don't know/think not (cf. the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). In the context of Matthew 24:36,42,44, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4).

Also, Jesus says "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), he doesn't say "of that day and hour no man will know". So it's possible that at some point in the future, some believers will come to know the date (as in the year, month, and day) of the 2nd coming before it happens. Also, if we mistakenly think that Jesus can come today or tomorrow (as is sometimes claimed by the pre-tribulation and symbolicist views), then how can we also claim that he will come when nobody thinks he will (Matthew 24:44)?

Also, compare the following: "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), "the things of God knoweth no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). If we claim that the first verse means that no man will ever know the date of the 2nd coming until it happens, then to be consistent we would have to also claim that the 2nd verse means that no man, not even believers, can know the things of God until the 2nd coming. But who would say that? For the Holy Spirit can currently reveal to believers the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13). He can currently guide them into all truth and show them what will happen in the future (John 16:13), including the date of the 2nd coming. For, again, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, what Amos 3:7 says would include the 2nd coming: Surely God the Father won't send Jesus back without having first revealed to some believers the secret of the date of the 2nd coming.

Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in a 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

 

[Done222]

Which has nothing to do with trying to predict when He'll be back.

Yeah, you'd think that when the Lord Himself said "You ain't gonna know" that'd settle it.

That in itsel isn;t date setting, but date setters all say that, don't they?

Dunno. At best it's pretty stupid. At worst it's you implicitly saying "Jesus said we wouldn't know, but He was wrong, because I know." That may not be a sin, but it sure isn't a very clever position to take.

Or to throw rocks at the moon. But neither practice is particularly profitable.

The prophecies themselves will sometimes provide time periods, and these prophecies were inspired by God. So the Lord gave us a lot of clues, some of those clues include time periods, the Lord then told us to watch for signs, and to look for His return. He also said that we cannot *know* which should be interpreted to mean that we cannot *know*. This does not preclude the possibility that we can accurately determine the day and hour of His return, but it does mean that we cannot know for sure and we must keep an open mind.

By looking at signs in the heavens the wise men were able to accurately predict the place and time of the first coming of the Lord.

It especially makes all Christians look like the same sort of mullethead who keeps predicting the End of the World.

This is entirely what enrages you about eschatology. Biblical you don’t have a leg to stand on. The return of Christ is a fundamental belief on which Christianity is based. The coming of Messiah is a fundamental belief on which Judaism is based. The Old and New Testament have an abundance of text related to this future event. What you have going against that is a statement that we cannot know for sure when it will happen, and based on that one statement you believe we should ignore much of the essence of Christianity.

It’s not about the Bible or theology even if you can convince yourself that it is; your real problem with date setters is entirely about the way they make you look.

What about the Eucharist, what about baptism, what about the risen Christ? If the secularists decide that these things are stupid, will you stop them also?

To me it’s the atheists who look like mulletheads, but I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder

 

[Jipsah]

He also said that we cannot *know* which should be interpreted to mean that we cannot *know*. This does not preclude the possibility that we can accurately determine the day and hour of His return, but it does mean that we cannot know for sure and we must keep an open mind.

Still trying to weasel around what our Lord said, is what that is. Ungood.

Anyway, it's like this. If I tell you "Don't know exactly when I'll be back, just have your stuff together and ready to go when I show up", it doesn't mean "Get out your weejee board and your horoscopes and your Magic 8 Ball and try like mad to figure out when I'm gonna be back so you can pack then." does it? That's what Date Setting is all about. It's about trying to figure out, usually by some stupid form of divination or other, the Lord will return, so you can be ready then. The Lord said to be ready, not be reading tea leaves to try and figure out when to get ready.

Get ready now!

This is entirely what enrages you about eschatology. Biblical you don’t have a leg to stand on.

Other than the Words of our Lord, of course, which apparently don't impress Date Setters all that much or they'd find a less stupid hobby. No, what enrages, or at least annoys, me is the sheer idiocy of the thing, and the pious and holier-than-thou posturing of these nincompoops who are at once contradicting our Lord's Words, while at the same time bringing contempt and ridicule down on the Church and Christians as a whole. Other than that, it's great stuff, huh?\

The return of Christ is a fundamental belief on which Christianity is based.

Read me tag line, matey.

The coming of Messiah is a fundamental belief on which Judaism is based.

Not Jewish; not caring.

What you have going against that is a statement that we cannot know for sure when it will happen, and based on that one statement you believe we should ignore much of the essence of Christianity.

Ignore? Hardly! I simply think that the best policy is to: A) take our Lord at His Word (imagine that, huh?, and B) do as He said. He didn't say "count the number of letters in this and the number of new moons in that and establish the correct algorithm and calculate when I'm gonna return and then get ready", He said "get ready". Now maybe you're Just Too Smart for anything that simple, but that ain't the way I'm betting.

It’s not about the Bible or theology even if you can convince yourself that it is; your real problem with date setters is entirely about the way they make you look.

Actually they make me look fairly clever when yet another of their sure-fire, can't-miss, no-doubt, bet-the-ranch-on-this-one dates for "The Rapture" or whatever comes and goes without incident, just as I said it would. But to unbelievers, they make Christians look like a bunch of superstitious dullards, and the Faith appear to be something akin to voodoo or shamanism. Zat OK with you?

What about the Eucharist, what about baptism, what about the risen Christ? If the secularists decide that these things are stupid, will you stop them also?

Ridiculous comparison, isn't it? The things you mention actually are established by our Lord. Date Setting quite the reverse; He Himself said it's futile. Maybe it's the inability to distinguish the difference is what motivates DSs.

 

[Done222]

You didn’t deal with this statement:

By looking at signs in the heavens the wise men were able to accurately predict the place and time of the first coming of the Lord.

The vast majority of humanity did not see or did not correctly interpret the clues that must have been given by God, but the wise men did. This doesn’t mean that the wise men will be given any special consideration on the Day of Judgment, but they did get to see the birth of the Lord.

Based on the story of the wise men, very few people, by the grace of God, will solve the riddles that are given to us by God through the prophets. The vast majority of people who try to predict the time of the end will get it wrong. This is why we must keep an open mind as we try to interpret the prophecies.

And that’s been my point from the beginning…that we must keep an open mind concerning eschatology. The date setters should keep an open mind, and as long as they do that their critics, if they are Christians, should be respectful as well. This should be the most civil forum on this board since every Christian should fully understand that the odds of correctly interpreting the prophecies are probably equal to the odds of winning the lottery. God gave us clues, and there is nothing wrong with speculating as long as we understand that is all we are doing.

By saying no man knows the day and hour, one thing Christ is telling us is that we are not going to solve the riddle unless God allows us to solve it…like the way the wise men were allowed to solve the riddle. We also are not going to solve the riddle unless we make an effort.

 

[ebedmelech]

You didn’t deal with this statement:

The vast majority of humanity did not see or did not correctly interpret the clues that must have been given by God, but the wise men did. This doesn’t mean that the wise men will be given any special consideration on the Day of Judgment, but they did get to see the birth of the Lord.

Based on the story of the wise men, very few people, by the grace of God, will solve the riddles that are given to us by God through the prophets. The vast majority of people who try to predict the time of the end will get it wrong. This is why we must keep an open mind as we try to interpret the prophecies.

And that’s been my point from the beginning…that we must keep an open mind concerning eschatology. The date setters should keep an open mind, and as long as they do that their critics, if they are Christians, should be respectful as well. This should be the most civil forum on this board since every Christian should fully understand that the odds of correctly interpreting the prophecies are probably equal to the odds of winning the lottery. God gave us clues, and there is nothing wrong with speculating as long as we understand that is all we are doing.

By saying no man knows the day and hour, one thing Christ is telling us is that we are not going to solve the riddle unless God allows us to solve it…like the way the wise men were allowed to solve the riddle. We also are not going to solve the riddle unless we make an effort.

But you still have no point. The signs told them to expect it...NOT when it would actually happen.

No one's saying there won't be signs...theiy're saying to set dates is wrong...and it is.

Always remember how Jesus answered the apostles before He ascended...they to wanted to know...Acts 1:6, 7:
6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?”
7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;

They weren't to know...and neither are you. Date setting is wrong and misleading.

 

[keras]

Would people here agree that the seven days of Creation, as per Genesis 1, are a type of the time God has planned for that Creation? That is: humankind has 7,000 years from start to finish, this is indicated by the 1000 years of the Millennium. [Sabbath rest]
We have a marker date, Luke 3:1 In the 15th year of Tiberius....Jesus was baptized, thus commencing His ministry on earth. That was in 29/30CE
Therefore before that there was 4000 years to Adam = 3970BCE
Add 2000 years to 30CE = 2030 The Return of Jesus. 17 years from now, 2013, which is about right for what must happen, starting very soon.
Add 1000 years, the Millennium = 3030 The Great White Throne Judgement of all the living and the dead.

 

[peterlindner]

Would people here agree that the seven days of Creation, as per Genesis 1, are a type of the time God has planned for that Creation? That is: humankind has 7,000 years from start to finish, this is indicated by the 1000 years of the Millennium. [Sabbath rest]
We have a marker date, Luke 3:1 In the 15th year of Tiberius....Jesus was baptized, thus commencing His ministry on earth. That was in 29/30CE
Therefore before that there was 4000 years to Adam = 3970BCE
Add 2000 years to 30CE = 2030 The Return of Jesus. 17 years from now, 2013, which is about right for what must happen, starting very soon.
Add 1000 years, the Millennium = 3030 The Great White Throne Judgement of all the living and the dead.

"knew you not that I must be about my Father's business?"

The business starts 17 years earlier.

 

[ebedmelech]

Would people here agree that the seven days of Creation, as per Genesis 1, are a type of the time God has planned for that Creation? That is: humankind has 7,000 years from start to finish, this is indicated by the 1000 years of the Millennium. [Sabbath rest]
We have a marker date, Luke 3:1 In the 15th year of Tiberius....Jesus was baptized, thus commencing His ministry on earth. That was in 29/30CE
Therefore before that there was 4000 years to Adam = 3970BCE
Add 2000 years to 30CE = 2030 The Return of Jesus. 17 years from now, 2013, which is about right for what must happen, starting very soon.
Add 1000 years, the Millennium = 3030 The Great White Throne Judgement of all the living and the dead.

I don't follow that line either. I've heard it but I think it's imposed on scripture.

There's no way for us to know. It's Jesus' good pleasure when He comes.