The Trinity

[Jack Terrence]

Jesus, by stating, God is the God of the living, was proof that these souls are alive, then how would that prove of a bodily resurrection.

Because only the LIVING can indwell a body. The resurrection of the body implies that the soul is ALIVE prior to the resurrection of the body. For the soul to "die" in the sense you mean "die" would mean the end of that soul. Paul said that when our fleshly body dissolves our inner man is "unclothed" until the resurrection. Only that which is LIVING can be spoken of as being "unclothed."

I am a soul and spirit in heaven, or wherever it may be, but with no body, then that sounds like to me, I am just like an angel already, with eternal life, spirit and soul.

Who said anything about souls being in heaven before the resurrection? Jesus said that no man has ascended into heaven. Souls don't go to heaven before the resurrection. They go down to sheol ALIVE to await the resurrection. The medium of Endor called Samuel up from the earth (sheol). Solomon said that sheol swallows men ALIVE (Proverbs 1:12).

So, if what I say is so, then what could Paul mean when he says they are now at the present longing for an heavenly? What could he mean by that, if what I am saying is true. Does it mean they are alive longing? [Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.] And if they are in heaven with God, why would they be longing for something else? In fact, if they are in heaven, then why are they longing for the heavenly sphere? And if they are not in heaven, yet the Spirit has returned to God, then how are they living?

Again, I do NOT believe that men go to heaven before the resurrection. The fact that the patriarchs "NOW desire" the heavenly country proves it. They went to sheol to await the resurrection. It is from sheol that the patriarchs desire the heavenly country. Dead men in the sense you mean "dead" do not desire.

Jesus likened his death to the seed which "dies." The germ remains ALIVE and descends into the earth. Likewise, men when "die" they remain ALIVE and descend into sheol. Jesus was in sheol ALIVE as Jonah was. Jonah prayed from sheol.

 

[razzelflabben]

Not only do I believe, the God, and Father of our lord Jesus Christ, is the only true God, but He has proved to me, all other religions, and many Christian denomination are false, when He had Jesus have John pen Revelation, who wrote against the churches. Even before this He had prophecy written against the church, and foretold what would come. Even, when Moses delayed coming down from the mountain.

I Cor. 12:3 (HCSB) Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

I John 4:2-3 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.…

I John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

I John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.

II John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.


John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

I John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

Let the word of God speak for God and let all who have ears, hear with understanding.

 

[JustHisKid]

Razzelflabben said: What if it is you who are not listening to God? What if we are saying the same thing but just talking past one another? What if neither of us has it right, that both of us are missing God on this matter? See, there are lots of possibles

So Peter's and Paul's doctrine were just possibilities, they really did not know, or understand? We are not called to fellowship with them in truth? No one can really know the truth?

You can know the truth, you have to know the truth, because the truth sets us free, but the Father must first reveal the true Christ, then will the son reveal the Father. We must believe Jesus doctrine. Like, was Jesus lying when he said the Father is the ONLY true God? If he was not lying then why don't you believe him? I say, I believe him, when he says that, and you say, I'm false.

If you were to believe him then maybe, you could understand that passage in context; what Jesus meant when he said I AM, because he can't be the only true God, if the Father is the only true God. You can't be the image of God, if you are God. You can't be equal to God, if you are God. If I have five apples in my right hand, that are equal to the five apples in my lift, then the five in my right can't be the five in my left, else they would be the five in my left. It was prophesied in scripture that the church, after all the elders of the church died, another generation after them, would turn to other gods.

I don't think that anyone who believes in the Trinity denies that Jesus is God.

 

[razzelflabben]

I don't think that anyone who believes in the Trinity denies that Jesus is God.

amen...in fact, I think that those who do not believe in the trinity, deny the Lordship of Christ.

 

[donfish06]

1 Corinthians 12:4-5 KJV
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. [5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

There it is. 1 God, different administrations. Straight from his mouth. NOWHERE does it say 3 persons, but one Lord.

 

[razzelflabben]

1 Corinthians 12:4-5 KJV
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. [5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

There it is. 1 God, different administrations. Straight from his mouth. NOWHERE does it say 3 persons, but one Lord.

yet trinity agrees that there is only one Lord, and so we aren't getting to the heart of the disagreement, but rather showing where they agree.

 

[7xlightray]

.

I did not know what you believed about where a soul goes, that's why I also said, “or wherever it may be,” and “And if they are not in heaven.” So, why did you focus on heaven, in the way you did?

Life is in the blood, and Abel's blood cried out to God, I guess that means blood is another eternal person. Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. - There it is, blood is eternal, and is in the grave waiting for something it will not receive.

For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him. As the image of the blood of Abel cried out to Him. Why did not God hear Abel's soul cry out to Him?

He also compared death to sleep.

 

[7xlightray]

I don't think that anyone who believes in the Trinity denies that Jesus is God.

It would be the first time I heard of that as well.

 

[JustHisKid]

1 Corinthians 12:4-5 KJV
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. [5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

There it is. 1 God, different administrations. Straight from his mouth. NOWHERE does it say 3 persons, but one Lord.

There is only one God. We are not in disagreement. You have yet to show any substantive difference between what you believe and what we believe. God is one. Jesus is God. We agree.

 

[razzelflabben]

I did not know what you believed about where a soul goes, that's why I also said, “or wherever it may be,” and “And if they are not in heaven.” So, why did you focus on heaven, in the way you did?

Life is in the blood, and Abel's blood cried out to God, I guess that means blood is another eternal person. Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. - There it is, blood is eternal, and is in the grave waiting for something it will not receive.

For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him. As the image of the blood of Abel cried out to Him. Why did not God hear Abel's soul cry out to Him?

He also compared death to sleep.

Luke 19:40 He answered, "I tell you, if they were to keep silent, the stones would cry out!"

Hab. 2:11The stones of the wall will cry out, and the beams of the woodwork will echo it.

Let the word of the Lord speak truth into our hearts and minds.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I'm not suggesting we need new evidence. I am wondering how it would impact the faith of a Christian if in fact God was not triune.

It would be a denial of the Bible. John chapters 13 thru 17, end of Matthew 29, John's First Epistle, etc.

 

[donfish06]

There is only one God. We are not in disagreement. You have yet to show any substantive difference between what you believe and what we believe. God is one. Jesus is God. We agree.

You saw on the conversation what the trinity really is. What you believe is not the trinity, that is why we agree.

 

[JustHisKid]

You saw on the conversation what the trinity really is. You do not believe in the trinity, that is why we agree.

I believe that people who believe God to be three co-equal persons still believe God is truly one God in three capacities. It's all the same thing. Semantics.

 

[razzelflabben]

I believe that people who believe God to be three co-equal persons still believe God is truly one God in three capacities. It's all the same thing. Semantics.

amen

 

[7xlightray]

Jesus was in sheol ALIVE as Jonah was. Jonah prayed from sheol.

Jonah's prayer while alive in the whale, does this prove Jesus soul did not die, and remained alive?

Jonah's body and soul remained together; also Jonah's body remained alive. Jonah's body did not die while in the whale. We know Jesus body did die. If we are going to insist Jesus soul remained alive in shoel, then we must also insist his body remained alive, and our sins not paid for.

God heard the prayer of Jesus from the grave, which Jesus prayed while he was still alive. Could we be right in this understanding? Jesus represents Abel that offered an acceptable sacrifice, and was killed by Cain who represents Jesus's Jewish bothers, who did not offer an acceptable sacrifice. It was Abel's blood that God heard crying out to him.

 

[razzelflabben]

Jonah's prayer while alive in the whale, does this prove Jesus soul did not die, and remained alive?

Jonah's body and soul remained together; also Jonah's body remained alive. Jonah's body did not die while in the whale. We know Jesus body did die. If we are going to insist Jesus soul remained alive in shoel, then we must also insist his body remained alive, and our sins not paid for.

God heard the prayer of Jesus from the grave, which Jesus prayed while he was still alive. Could we be right in this understanding? Jesus represents Abel that offered an acceptable sacrifice, and was killed by Cain who represents Jesus's Jewish bothers, who did not offer an acceptable sacrifice. It was Abel's blood that God heard crying out to him.

Ephesians 4:10 The One who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.

II Cor. 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows.

Eph. 1:15-23
15 This is why, since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 I never stop giving thanks for you as I remember you in my prayers. 17 I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father,would give you a spirit may be enlightened so you may know what is the hope and appointed Him as headAF)" data-cr="#cen-HCSB-29227AF" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> over everything for the church, 23 which is His body,AG)" data-cr="#cen-HCSB-29228AG" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;">the fullnessAH)" data-cr="#cen-HCSB-29228AH" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> of the One who fills all thingsAI)" data-cr="#cen-HCSB-29228AI" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> in every way.

May the word of God speak with authority to all who are led by the HS.

 

[donfish06]

I believe that people who believe God to be three co-equal persons still believe God is truly one God in three capacities. It's all the same thing. Semantics.

If Jesus said, "I can do nothing unless the Father first shows me," that would show that He was under the Father's authority. How could you be under authority, and co-equal? I never heard the Father saying he only does what the Holy Spirit tells him, or what Jesus tells him. Not co-equal. The Bible never says they are equal. Jesus made himself equal to God = He WAS God. But in what capacity? A SON can never be co-equal to his FATHER. Think about the things you trinitarians say. You completely disregard the english language when you speak of the trinity. "eternal sonship" HOW CAN A SON BE ETERNAL?? To be a son, it has to have been begotten! Thus it can not be eternal! The trinity is against scripture, and logic.

 

[JustHisKid]

If Jesus said, "I can do nothing unless the Father first shows me," that would show that He was under the Father's authority. How could you be under authority, and co-equal? I never heard the Father saying he only does what the Holy Spirit tells him, or what Jesus tells him. Not co-equal. The Bible never says they are equal. Jesus made himself equal to God = He WAS God. But in what capacity? A SON can never be co-equal to his FATHER. Think about the things you trinitarians say. You completely disregard the english language when you speak of the trinity. "eternal sonship" HOW CAN A SON BE ETERNAL?? To be a son, it has to have been begotten! Thus it can not be eternal! The trinity is against scripture, and logic.

Jesus isn't the only beggoten Son of the Father?

 

[razzelflabben]

If Jesus said, "I can do nothing unless the Father first shows me," that would show that He was under the Father's authority. How could you be under authority, and co-equal? I never heard the Father saying he only does what the Holy Spirit tells him, or what Jesus tells him. Not co-equal. The Bible never says they are equal. Jesus made himself equal to God = He WAS God. But in what capacity? A SON can never be co-equal to his FATHER. Think about the things you trinitarians say. You completely disregard the english language when you speak of the trinity. "eternal sonship" HOW CAN A SON BE ETERNAL?? To be a son, it has to have been begotten! Thus it can not be eternal! The trinity is against scripture, and logic.

something to think about...as flesh and blood, that is fully man while being fully God, Jesus was susceptible to the sins that plague us all. As flesh, He was tempted just like we all are tempted, in fact, consider the temptations of Christ. Yet He showed us how to overcome that temptation by being in submission to God, notice I said God not the Father here. There God is three but one, His role as the Christ had to be one of submission so that He could show us the way. thus He had to be 1. led by the HS, and 2. under the authority of God the Father in order to overcome the temptations of a very fleshly body as well as being our example of how to live a life free from sin.

Again, your posts show you trying to argue with the flesh what only the spirit can know and understand, that will always cause conflicts and problems with the theology and doctrine of trinity

 

[donfish06]

Jesus isn't the only beggoten Son of the Father?

That's kind of a 2 fold question. When Jesus said that, it was the case, but after he died and his Spirit came at Pentecost, then there were multiple sons of God, begotten by His Spirit. (Jesus was the firstborn among many brethren - Romans 8:29)

He IS, however, the only Son who was created 100% by God, as we are created from our physical parents ... Jesus of Nazareth was created by God. In that aspect, He is the only begotten.

Either way, there is no such thing as "eternally begotten." To have been begotten by definition means that at some point it had to have NOT been. Thus there is no such thing as "eternal sonship" that the trinitarians claim.

There is a huge difference between the true Godhead and the trinity dogma. I have not seen one person on here who would accept it, so I will not waste my time. You all are too into your creeds and dogmas to accept the Word.