LDS The Strait Gate and Narrow Way: Celestial Marriage

[mmksparbud]

Yes Jesus did provide a way for proxy baptism giving us the opportunity to do that for the dead.

Great---we agree---His baptism is all that is needed for those who could not be baptized, His baptism is sufficient.

 

[He is the way]

Great---we agree---His baptism is all that is needed for those who could not be baptized, His baptism is sufficient.

We do agree, however it is done in the way the Bible says it is done, people are baptized for the dead.

 

[mmksparbud]

We do agree, however it is done in the way the Bible says it is done, people are baptized for the dead.

No, they are not. IT was a Jewish practice to wash the dead -- the immersion of anything into water is called baptism. It is what the word means---immersion. They called it baptism when they washed a dish! You've been shown this many times. What you do is a meaningless ritual. Baptism for a sinner, requires the sinner to be aware oif, and to repent from, his sins. As with babies, they can not do this. So, doing this ritual has absolutely no affect on God, except that is an abomination to him, for you reject that salvation comes from the blood of Jesus, but through a ritual that the dead can not participate in.
No ritual saves, only Jesus can do that.

 

[He is the way]

No, the7y are not. IT was a Jewish practice to wash the dead -- the immersion of anything into water is called baptism. It is what the word means---immersion. They called it baptism when they washed a dish! You've been shown this many times. What you do is a meaningless ritual. Baptism for a sinner, requires the sinner to be aware oif, and to repent from, his sins. As with babies, they can not do this. So, doing this ritual has absolutely no affect on God, except that is an abomination to him, for you reject that salvation comes from the blood of Jesus, but through a ritual that the dead can not participate in.
No ritual saves, only Jesus can do that.

I have been shown the precepts of man many times and that is not what the Bible verse about baptism for the dead is about. We need both the atonement and the baptism, and not only that we also need to repent, keep the commandments, and partake of the sacrament, but repentance comes first.

 

[mmksparbud]

I have been shown the precepts of man many times and that is not what the Bible verse about baptism for the dead is about. We need both the atonement and the baptism, and not only that we also need to repent, keep the commandments, and partake of the sacrament, but repentance comes first.

Which the dead can not do.

 

[He is the way]

Which the dead can not do.

The dead can repent especially those who weren't taught the gospel during their lives. God is a just God:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 3:19 - 22)

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:5 - 6)

5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[mmksparbud]

The dead can repent especially those who weren't taught the gospel during their lives. God is a just God:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 3:19 - 22)

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:5 - 6)

5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Psa_115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Ecc_9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Job 14:10-12 "But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

After death, the next thing we will know is the resurrection, there are 2 of them.

John 5:28-29
"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

 

[He is the way]

Psa_115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Ecc_9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Job 14:10-12 "But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

After death, the next thing we will know is the resurrection, there are 2 of them.

John 5:28-29
"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

The Body dies, the spirit doesn't. The spirit returns to God. The tabernacle returns to the earth.

 

[mmksparbud]

The Body dies, the spirit doesn't. The spirit returns to God. The tabernacle returns to the earth.

I know that is your belief. We could argue this till the cows come home. I will leave it at I don't believe that is what the scriptures say.

 

[He is the way]

I know that is your belief. We could argue this till the cows come home. I will leave it at I don't believe that is what the scriptures say.

So what about these verses:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 5:1 - 9)

1 FOR we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

 

[mmksparbud]

So what about these verses:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 5:1 - 9)

1 FOR we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

Been through these over and over with you. They do not in any wsay diminish the truth of the verses I showed you. We take all the verses together for a correct view iof their meaning, not just what we want. You are free to believe whatever you want. You choose to believe in JS over the bible, I never will.

 

[Peter1000]

Hmmm---again---LDS believe in by proxy for marriage, and by proxy for our sins through the blood of Jesus---but you refuse to believe that the baptism of Jesus, who had no sin to repent of and needed no baptism, can not be applied to those who were unable to be baptized---a very strange inconsistency there. His baptism certainly can be applied by proxy for those who could not.

If that were a true doctrine Jesus would have given that to JS instead of proxy ordinances. It sure would have been a lot easier and a lot less costly. Do you know how many millions of hours and millions of dollars we spend on temples to do this work?

The proxy work is a good work to be involved in. We get to know our ancestry and fulfill the prophecy of Malachi that the children will remember their fathers, and the fathers will remember their children, unless the whole earth is smitten with a curse.

It is also good to go to the temple to do this proxy work because we are closer to Jesus when we are in his temple, and the spirit is strong and you can feel it. When you come out of a temple you can feel the weight of the evil world that surrounds you. But the temple experience helps you face up to this evil and fight it, and gives you hope to overcome it.

You should try it some time.

 

[Peter1000]

Been through these over and over with you. They do not in any wsay diminish the truth of the verses I showed you. We take all the verses together for a correct view iof their meaning, not just what we want. You are free to believe whatever you want. You choose to believe in JS over the bible, I never will.

It is not JS vs Bible, it is Bible vs Bible.

 

[mmksparbud]

It is not JS vs Bible, it is Bible vs Bible.

To you. To me it very much is JS against the bible. He has failed the tests of a true prophet and I can not view him as anything else. You see him as a true one. All of the things that make you so very different from the Christian are the things that prove him to be a false prophet. To you they mean he is real, to me they prove he is not. Thus it will stand until the Lord Himself will set the record straight. I do not, and never will, believe his writings are anything except total fiction (except for the parts he copied straight from the KJV)

 

[Rescued One]

If that were a true doctrine Jesus would have given that to JS instead of proxy ordinances. It sure would have been a lot easier and a lot less costly. Do you know how many millions of hours and millions of dollars we spend on temples to do this work?

The proxy work is a good work to be involved in. We get to know our ancestry and fulfill the prophecy of Malachi that the children will remember their fathers, and the fathers will remember their children, unless the whole earth is smitten with a curse.

It is also good to go to the temple to do this proxy work because we are closer to Jesus when we are in his temple, and the spirit is strong and you can feel it. When you come out of a temple you can feel the weight of the evil world that surrounds you. But the temple experience helps you face up to this evil and fight it, and gives you hope to overcome it.

You should try it some time.

Jesus gave nothing to Joseph Smith.

 

[drstevej]

It is not JS vs Bible, it is Bible vs Bible.

How about RLDS vs LDS ???

 

[Peter1000]

To you. To me it very much is JS against the bible. He has failed the tests of a true prophet and I can not view him as anything else. You see him as a true one. All of the things that make you so very different from the Christian are the things that prove him to be a false prophet. To you they mean he is real, to me they prove he is not. Thus it will stand until the Lord Himself will set the record straight. I do not, and never will, believe his writings are anything except total fiction (except for the parts he copied straight from the KJV)

You are right, the Lord will set the record straight. His whole life was spent testifying that Jesus is the Christ and we must believe in him. His whole life was centered in Jesus Christ. All that he did, he did in the name of Jesus Christ. Every thing was about Jesus Christ.

 

[Peter1000]

How about RLDS vs LDS ???

What about it?

 

[Peter1000]

Jesus gave nothing to Joseph Smith.

You too will have to wait and see just what Jesus gave JS. Jesus gave JS the milk and the meat of the gospel of Jesus Christ. You reject the whole restored gospel and especially the meat that the Corinthians rejected from Paul.

 

[Rescued One]

You too will have to wait and see just what Jesus gave JS. Jesus gave JS the milk and the meat of the gospel of Jesus Christ. You reject the whole restored gospel and especially the meat that the Corinthians rejected from Paul.

I reject your false religion because God told me to do so.

Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Psalm 50
15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.