The retrial of Yeshua?

[VanillaSunflowers]

OK, that's what I imagined would be the case since there was no update. Thank you.

 

[daq]

Impossible. They would be violating the Torah. On what 2 or 3 witnesses could be used to establish the matter?

That is the key right there BukiRob: there is no need for a retrial because the Sanhedrin already acquitted Yeshua when the chief Kohen rent his garments, (Matthew 26:65, Mark 14:63), and utterly disqualified himself, (he that is anointed to be Kohen is forbidden to rend his garments, Leviticus 10:6, Leviticus 21:10). They could do nothing more than acquit because they did not have two credible witnesses whose testimony agreed. The chief Kohen saw this and "headed them off at the pass" sort of speak and preempted the acquittal by disqualifying himself and the Sanhedrin vote. That is why he says, as he rent his garments, "What need have we of witnesses?" And that is where the charges changed from "mesith", (one who misleads a city, town, village, or the people), to claiming to be a king. The claim to be a "son of the Blessed" is a title reserved for kings, such as David, and therefore they at that point had what they needed to turn him over to Pilate for claiming to be a king, (which was a very slippery interpretation of the words of Yeshua on their part and even Pilate saw through it). If Yeshua had been convicted of being a mesith the penalty is not hanging or crucifixion but rather stoning. The Sanhedrin essentially already acquitted him but turned over to Pilate with the new charges of having claimed to be king, (supposedly an affront to Caesar also, that is, if it were true: but Yeshua did not claim to be King).

 

[BukiRob]

C

That is the key right there BukiRob: there is no need for a retrial because the Sanhedrin already acquitted Yeshua when the chief Kohen rent his garments, (Matthew 26:65, Mark 14:63), and utterly disqualified himself, (he that is anointed to be Kohen is forbidden to rend his garments, Leviticus 10:6, Leviticus 21:10). They could do nothing more than acquit because they did not have two credible witnesses whose testimony agreed. The chief Kohen saw this and "headed them off at the pass" sort of speak and preempted the acquittal by disqualifying himself and the Sanhedrin vote. That is why he says, as he rent his garments, "What need have we of witnesses?" And that is where the charges changed from "mesith", (one who misleads a city, town, village, or the people), to claiming to be a king. The claim to be a "son of the Blessed" is a title reserved for kings, such as David, and therefore they at that point had what they needed to turn him over to Pilate for claiming to be a king, (which was a very slippery interpretation of the words of Yeshua on their part and even Pilate saw through it). If Yeshua had been convicted of being a mesith the penalty is not hanging or crucifixion but rather stoning. The Sanhedrin essentially already acquitted him but turned over to Pilate with the new charges of having claimed to be king, (supposedly an affront to Caesar also, that is, if it were true: but Yeshua did not claim to be King).

Thank you for the insight.... it makes sense when they were shouting to Pilot that they had no king but Ceaser.

 

[daq]

C



Thank you for the insight.... it makes sense when they were shouting to Pilot that they had no king but Ceaser.

Yes, and that is exactly why when Pilate sought to release him they say the following:

John 19:12
12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Yhudim cried out, saying, If you let this man go, you are not a friend of Caesar: whosoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar.
.
.

 

[DennisTate]

Yes, and that is exactly why when Pilate sought to release him they say the following:

John 19:12
12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Yhudim cried out, saying, If you let this man go, you are not a friend of Caesar: whosoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar.
.
.

Many influential members of the Sanhedrin at the time of John the Baptist and
Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had been appointed by King Herod the Great........
these were not men who were chosen for their piety..........
or wisdom...... or their generosity....

 

[DennisTate]

Interesting article. It sounds like the author of the article (whoever that may be) is a believer.

A retrial would be interesting but probably incendiary.

Here is another great video on this topic.....

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=684465218371121

Facing Each Other - PEACE between Judaism & Christianity

 

[Open Heart]

Here is another great video on this topic.....

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=684465218371121

Facing Each Other - PEACE between Judaism & Christianity

If you listen to what this man says about Yeshua, it is clear he is not an Orthodox Jew but a Messianic Jew.

I can't stand this sort of reasoning about letters and numbers and stuff.

 

[visionary]

On March 9, 2009 the International Nazarene Beit Din officially found errors with Yeshua's original trial, heled a new trial and overturned the prior conviction.

The following was the finding of the Beit Din:

We, the International Nazarene Beit Din find the following errors in the trial of Yeshua (“Jesus”) of Nazareth:

1. Defendant's trial was held at night. The Mishna clearly states that a capitol trial may not be held at night (m.San. 4:1)

2. Defendant was remanded to Rome for sentencing immediately. The Mishna requires sentencing to be delayed by one day in order for the judges to properly consider the case. (m.San. 5:5)

3. The trial was overseen by Caiphas. Caiphas was appointed in 18 CE by the Roman procurator who preceded Pilate, Valerius Gratus. The Torah directs that a High Priest serves for life, however, the preceding High Priest was still alive when Caiphas took office. Because Caiphas was improperly installed in the office of High Priest, his rulings were and are invalid.

Due to these errors in the original trial, the International Nazarene Beit Din rules that Defendant is entitled posthumously to a new trial.

The charge is that of blasphemy (Matt. 26:65) . Having reviewed the transcript of the original trial (Matt. 26:57-66) and read the transcribed testimony of the witnesses, as well as that of the Defendant, we do hereby reverse Caiaphas' ruling and exonerate Yeshua (“Jesus”) of the charge of blasphemy.

We do also find based on Caiaphas' own statement before the trial "that it was better that one man should die for the people" (John 18:14) that Caiaphas engaged in a conspiracy to use his office in order to intentionally convict Defendant without a fair trial for political gain. We the International Nazarene Beit Din do therefore posthumously find Caiaphas guilty of murder.

http://nazarenespace.com/page/yeshua-s-conviction-overturned

 

[Open Heart]

On March 9, 2009 the International Nazarene Beit Din

Who are these people? They aren't Rabbinical Jews. They aren't Christians or even your ordinary Messianic Jews since they've done some off the wall things like canonize Enoch, 3rd and 4th Maccabees. Do they claim to be the Sanhedrin? The One True Church that Christ established? If they are connected with Nazarene Judaism, that means they believe Torah observance is obligatory for all of humankind (whereas I for example keep torah out of love, not obligation). Does anyone have info on them?

 

[visionary]

The International Nazarene Beit Din is a body of Nazarene Zakenim ("Elders") formed in 1996 in accordance with the Torah (Dt. 16:18; Ex. 18:19-26). The Beit Din exists as a Rosh Beit Din (Head Beit Din) to resolve halachic issues and other matters scripturally assigned to the beit din. The beit din system is both the biblical way and the Jewish way for Nazarene Judaism to establish halacha and govern itself. The International Nazarene Beit Din operates in the biblical tradition of the ancient Nazarene Beit Din headed by Ya'akov HaTzadik (James the Just) (see Acts 15). It is our hope that the International Nazarene Beit Din will be helpful to Nazarenes everywhere as we work together to reestablish first century Nazarene halacha and endeavor to the unity of the body in the bond of peace.
Beit-Din

 

[Open Heart]

The International Nazarene Beit Din is a body of Nazarene Zakenim ("Elders") formed in 1996 in accordance with the Torah (Dt. 16:18; Ex. 18:19-26). The Beit Din exists as a Rosh Beit Din (Head Beit Din) to resolve halachic issues and other matters scripturally assigned to the beit din. The beit din system is both the biblical way and the Jewish way for Nazarene Judaism to establish halacha and govern itself. The International Nazarene Beit Din operates in the biblical tradition of the ancient Nazarene Beit Din headed by Ya'akov HaTzadik (James the Just) (see Acts 15). It is our hope that the International Nazarene Beit Din will be helpful to Nazarenes everywhere as we work together to reestablish first century Nazarene halacha and endeavor to the unity of the body in the bond of peace.
Beit-Din

This doesn't really answer who they are. It just answers what a beit din is.

What do you think about their weird canon?

Interesting that they think Acts 15 is a beit din rather than a Church council. In those days, the Sanhedrin was still functioning.

 

[ChavaK]

This doesn't really answer who they are. It just answers what a beit din is.

They are associated with James Trimm. If you look at the members of the "beit din", it looks like they are all Gentiles.
Members of the International Nazarene Beit DIn

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

They are associated with James Trimm. If you look at the members of the "beit din", it looks like they are all Gentiles.
Members of the International Nazarene Beit DIn

68 empty seats?????

 

[Open Heart]

They are associated with James Trimm. If you look at the members of the "beit din", it looks like they are all Gentiles.
Members of the International Nazarene Beit DIn

James Trimm of the Messianic Hall of Shame? The con artist?

Yes, when I saw the word Nazarene, I figured it was a group of Gentiles with nary a Jew. That's why I was asking vis if these were the Nazarenes that think all of humanity is obligated to observe Torah for salvation.

 

[visionary]

This doesn't really answer who they are. It just answers what a beit din is.

What do you think about their weird canon?

Interesting that they think Acts 15 is a beit din rather than a Church council. In those days, the Sanhedrin was still functioning.

As Jews "church council" would be a foreign concept.

 

[Open Heart]

As Jews "church council" would be a foreign concept.

Good point. I suppose it depends how far along in history. Certainly by the time Gentile churches were established they had a concept of doing things apart from Judaism. But you are right that at the beginning they considered themselves simply Judaism. You gave me something to knock around in my brain, vis!

 

[ChavaK]

James Trimm of the Messianic Hall of Shame? The con artist?

Yes, when I saw the word Nazarene, I figured it was a group of Gentiles with nary a Jew. That's why I was asking vis if these were the Nazarenes that think all of humanity is obligated to observe Torah for salvation.

Yep, that James Trimm.

 

[DennisTate]

James Trimm of the Messianic Hall of Shame? The con artist?

Yes, when I saw the word Nazarene, I figured it was a group of Gentiles with nary a Jew. That's why I was asking vis if these were the Nazarenes that think all of humanity is obligated to observe Torah for salvation.

I have only read a few of Mr. James Trimm's articles......
and the ones that I did read..... looked reasonably good to me.......

I would at the absolute minimum have to give the man credit for obviously
being interested in questions relevant to the Messianic Jewish community.......

I know essentially nothing about whatever flaws he may have........ in his
methods of promoting his seemingly rather extensive writings.

Is Mr. James Trimm working with........ Mr. Norman Willis on attempting to negotiate an agreement with the nation of Israel?

If so........ that basic idea sure does have potential.