The Resurrection

[leftrightleftrightleft]

How does the resurrection effect my life?

If I believe in the resurrection tomorrow, how will my life be changed in any practical way?

Perhaps it is true that my "sins will be forgiven" in some abstract sense, but if that abstraction has no manifestation in my experience then how does it hold any value?

What is the value of an abstract belief that does not manifest itself in how you live, think or process information?

 

[Nails74]

Simply believing in the resurrection will not change your life.

 

[elman]

How does the resurrection effect my life?

If I believe in the resurrection tomorrow, how will my life be changed in any practical way?

Perhaps it is true that my "sins will be forgiven" in some abstract sense, but if that abstraction has no manifestation in my experience then how does it hold any value?

What is the value of an abstract belief that does not manifest itself in how you live, think or process information?

I don't belileve we can observe the spiritual realm. We believe there is a spiritual reality. We cannot prove it exists. I believe we are all born physically and spiritually alive. If we are mentally normal and reach maturity we make choices that are unloving to others which separates us from spiritual reality--God. Ezekiel 18 says our soul dies because of our sin. Then it says if we turn from wickedness to righteousness we will live and not die. This must mean God recreates us spiritually if we turn from a selfish and unloving lifestyle to being caring and compassionate toward others in need. This recreation is the resurrection from death to life of our soul. We do not see our soul and we do not observe the resurrection in this physical world. I think this recreation is what Jesus was talking to Nichodemis about when He said we must be born again. I don't believe in a physical resurrection but I do believe in a spiritual resurrection. So in answer to your question I don't know that the resurrection effects your life as much as your life effects the existence of your spiritual self--your soul.

 

[Harry3142]

How does the resurrection effect my life?

If I believe in the resurrection tomorrow, how will my life be changed in any practical way?

Perhaps it is true that my "sins will be forgiven" in some abstract sense, but if that abstraction has no manifestation in my experience then how does it hold any value?

What is the value of an abstract belief that does not manifest itself in how you live, think or process information?

Through his resurrection Jesus conquered the ultimate enemy of mankind, namely, death itself. It is also the consequence of our fallen state. But Jesus faced it himself in order to defeat its power to all:

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me - just as the Father knows me and I know the Father - and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life - only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father. (The Gospel of St. John 10:14-18,NIV)

One cannot conquer an enemy without engaging in battle with that enemy. For Jesus to conquer death itself, he had to engage it, do battle with it, and conquer it by returning via his resurrection.

 

[razeontherock]

How does the resurrection effect my life?

If I believe in the resurrection tomorrow, how will my life be changed in any practical way?

Perhaps it is true that my "sins will be forgiven" in some abstract sense, but if that abstraction has no manifestation in my experience then how does it hold any value?

What is the value of an abstract belief that does not manifest itself in how you live, think or process information?

I am currently at a crossroads in my answer to this. I have always read the Bible and experienced Christianity as being directly relevant in the here and now. I see this as being not only theologically sound, but in agreement with Judaism; so in touch with "the roots."

Then I came across the theology of Glory vs the theology of the Cross, and ... :o

back to the drawing board!

 

[ebia]

How does the resurrection effect my life?

If I believe in the resurrection tomorrow, how will my life be changed in any practical way?

Perhaps it is true that my "sins will be forgiven" in some abstract sense, but if that abstraction has no manifestation in my experience then how does it hold any value?

What is the value of an abstract belief that does not manifest itself in how you live, think or process information?

The resurrection is the beginning of God's new creation. How can that not affect how you live?

 

[aiki]

How does the resurrection effect my life?

Paul explains in detail why the resurrection of Christ is important in 1 Corinthians 15:12-58.

If I believe in the resurrection tomorrow, how will my life be changed in any practical way?

By itself, believing in the resurrection gains you nothing. It is believing in the one who was resurrected that is vital.

Perhaps it is true that my "sins will be forgiven" in some abstract sense, but if that abstraction has no manifestation in my experience then how does it hold any value?

How is being forgiven of your sins "abstract"? Without this forgiveness, your sins separate you from God and from the very real experience of His grace, love and joy. You cannot fellowship with God and delight in doing so when sin stands in the way between you and your Maker.

What is the value of an abstract belief that does not manifest itself in how you live, think or process information?

I'm not sure how you're linking up the resurrection and forgiveness in your thinking. Personally, I find neither the resurrection of Christ nor the forgiveness of my sins abstract ideas or beliefs that are divorced from my daily experience of God. Without the resurrection I cannot have fellowship with God, and without forgiveness I cannot maintain fellowship with Him.

Selah.

 

[ElijahW]

How does the resurrection effect my life?

If you believe that the resurrection of the dead will occur, then it should change your behavior in your current life; in that you should try to work towards the society (kingdom) that will bring about that resurrection. For a person of authority who believes, it should make them aware that any oppression of the people they rule over will have repercussions later; if not in this life, the next.

 

[Jamesja]

I have had a new thought on the resurrection.

Humans are hybrids half natural and half spiritual.

The natural part is our flesh, it never really changes. There is a part of us that needs training just like any animal. We learn obediance by pain and reward.

We never really come to the place where we like to submit. It is an act of our will.

The spiritual part wants to do God's will. It longs to be good. It knows what is right and wants to do that.

The conflict Christians often feel is because of this hybrid nature that we have.

In the resurrection our bodies will be changed and we will have a body like our spirit, one that wants to do God's will. The resurrection gives me hope and courage that in the end I my body and spirit will be united in perfection.

 

[hedrick]

I have a different idea of salvation than some. I don't think it's just about getting saved from hell. It's about becoming what God wants us to be. It is, of course, based on God's forgiveness and acceptance, but that's just the start.

The resurrection has two significances. First, Paul says we die to sin with Christ and are raised with him to new life. See Rom 6:5 ff. Now I believe that God accepts us before anything we do. But our reception of this and our participation in it in faith requires a turnaround (the literal meaning of repentance), and I think that's what Paul is describing. Our repentance is dying to sin and being born again to new life, and that happens through participation in Christ's death and resurrection.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Simply believing in the resurrection will not change your life.

This has been the most intriguing response so far. What do you mean exactly?

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I don't belileve we can observe the spiritual realm. We believe there is a spiritual reality. We cannot prove it exists. I believe we are all born physically and spiritually alive. If we are mentally normal and reach maturity we make choices that are unloving to others which separates us from spiritual reality--God. Ezekiel 18 says our soul dies because of our sin. Then it says if we turn from wickedness to righteousness we will live and not die. This must mean God recreates us spiritually if we turn from a selfish and unloving lifestyle to being caring and compassionate toward others in need. This recreation is the resurrection from death to life of our soul. We do not see our soul and we do not observe the resurrection in this physical world. I think this recreation is what Jesus was talking to Nichodemis about when He said we must be born again. I don't believe in a physical resurrection but I do believe in a spiritual resurrection. So in answer to your question I don't know that the resurrection effects your life as much as your life effects the existence of your spiritual self--your soul.

And what does this have to do with Jesus' resurrection? Why was He necessary for anything which you have said?

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

The resurrection is the beginning of God's new creation. How can that not affect how you live?

How did/does this new creation manifest itself? What changed around ~30 AD when he did and rose again?

If this new creation does not manifest itself in any way then what is the use in believing in an abstract concept such as this?

Perhaps put another way, if the resurrection had never occurred, how would the world appear any different?

 

[razeontherock]

These questions are MOST valid!

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

How is being forgiven of your sins "abstract"? Without this forgiveness, your sins separate you from God and from the very real experience of His grace, love and joy. You cannot fellowship with God and delight in doing so when sin stands in the way between you and your Maker.

So why are Christians just like non-Christians in their manifest lives? Whether someone is forgiven or not does not seem obvious in any real, concrete way; hence it is just an abstract belief that has no manifestation in someone's actions. It is an ideal with no concrete existence.

What is "fellowship with God"? What does that sentence mean? Describe to me the sensations and experiences that are associated with "fellowship with God". How are these subjective experiences manifestly different than other experiences? And, more importantly, why are these experiences explicitly available only via an abstract belief in the risen Christ? How do you know that a non-Christian's experiences of God or the Divine are not identical, similar or more powerful?

Describe the sensation or experience of having your "sins forgiven". What is it about this experience that justifies such a claim? How is this phrase not just an abstraction? What grounds it in reality?

I'm not sure how you're linking up the resurrection and forgiveness in your thinking. Personally, I find neither the resurrection of Christ nor the forgiveness of my sins abstract ideas or beliefs that are divorced from my daily experience of God. Without the resurrection I cannot have fellowship with God, and without forgiveness I cannot maintain fellowship with Him.

Why not? What is stopping you from doing this? If you have some experience within your subjective mind that is concrete which you label "fellowship with God", then the next time you have this experience simply attribute it to "the way you put your socks on that day". You are still having the experience but you are attributing it to a different abstract idea. The experience will remain identical, regardless of your belief in an abstract concept, will it not? How does attributing an experience to a certain idea give the idea value in and of itself?

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

If you believe that the resurrection of the dead will occur, then it should change your behavior in your current life; in that you should try to work towards the society (kingdom) that will bring about that resurrection. For a person of authority who believes, it should make them aware that any oppression of the people they rule over will have repercussions later; if not in this life, the next.

What would this society look like? How is a non-Christian inhibited from striving towards the same ideal? What is impeding a non-Christians ability to try?

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I have a different idea of salvation than some. I don't think it's just about getting saved from hell. It's about becoming what God wants us to be. It is, of course, based on God's forgiveness and acceptance, but that's just the start.

The resurrection has two significances. First, Paul says we die to sin with Christ and are raised with him to new life. See Rom 6:5 ff. Now I believe that God accepts us before anything we do. But our reception of this and our participation in it in faith requires a turnaround (the literal meaning of repentance), and I think that's what Paul is describing. Our repentance is dying to sin and being born again to new life, and that happens through participation in Christ's death and resurrection.

Do you think that what you describe is a process or an instantaneous event?

So many Christians seem to describe this "turnaround" (aka repentance) as an instantaneous event which suddenly magically "lifts the veil" and you become this magical person who is living in the Spirit. They imply that this person is suddenly given new direction and a totally new worldview summarized by "accepting the Holy Spirit" into your heart at one discrete moment in time. I find this description to be naive. I find that this instantaneous description of conversion neglects life. It neglects that life has ups and downs; it neglects that people are constantly learning, growing and changing; it neglects that people are prone to selfishness regardless of their belief systems and therefore abiding by God's will in all instances is an impossibility.

I am much more inclined to think of life as a process. I reject both the Buddhist idea of "sudden" Enlightenment as well as the Christian idea of "sudden" conversion. I feel like life is more complex than that and my learning curve is never complete. I think I (and many others) have had "ah-ha" moments of quiet realization or revelation but these discrete events are only pieces of the puzzle and never does one define me more fully than any other. Never has one defined me completely. I am rather defined by the sum of all these "ah-ha" moments in a constantly evolving process. Is that so bad?

 

[ElijahW]

What would this society look like? How is a non-Christian inhibited from striving towards the same ideal? What is impeding a non-Christians ability to try?

A society that has figured out how to live in harmony, without oppressing each other and figured out a way around the whole dying issue.

Nothing prevents or inhibits a non believer from working towards the kingdom. Ironically, it’s actually one of the common reasons people reject Christianity, because they see religion as being divisive in our society and if we didn’t have it then that help unify humanity and bring about the same kingdom the religion they are rejecting is trying to bring about by unifying humanity around Christ.

 

[aiki]

So why are Christians just like non-Christians in their manifest lives?

I don't think they are - at least some of them, anyway. This is most evident in circumstances that are painful, or tragic, or frightening. THe mature Christians I've seen walking through such circumstances with God do so with a stability, peace, and even joy, that dumbfounds onlookers. .

Whether someone is forgiven or not does not seem obvious in any real, concrete way; hence it is just an abstract belief that has no manifestation in someone's actions. It is an ideal with no concrete existence.

Oh, I don't know...The knowledge that I am forgiven by God and at peace with Him imparts to me a peace and joy that doesn't come any other way. This might not seem "concrete" to you, but the experience of joy and peace is very real to me.

What is "fellowship with God"? What does that sentence mean? Describe to me the sensations and experiences that are associated with "fellowship with God".

Fellowship with God is a unique thing. It can be described in terms of other things, but in the end these only approximate what fellowship with Him is like. Fellowship with God is a joyful experience; it is marked by peace, and contentment, and love for God; it is characterized by a sense of fulfillment, and gratefulness, and a profound awareness of one's dependence upon God; it is a communion that provokes one toward greater and greater holiness.

How are these subjective experiences manifestly different than other experiences?

Well, stubbing my toe on a chair, for instance, is manifestly different from fellowship with God in that fellowship with God does not cause my toe to throb. Experiencing God is different from getting a hair cut, or washing the dishes, or any number of other experiences I have -- and it is not. This is because, ideally, my fellowship with God continues through all the mundane events of daily living. In any case, communion with God is not identical in nature to getting a cavity filled, or washing my socks, or whatever; I can separate out fellowship with God from all the other experiences I have.

And, more importantly, why are these experiences explicitly available only via an abstract belief in the risen Christ?

I'm not sure what you mean by "abstract belief in the risen Christ." My belief in his resurrection is quite concrete unlike, say, my belief in honor or beauty. As far as I'm concerned, Christ's resurrection is a historical fact, not a vague idea.

Fellowship with God is predicated upon one's belief in the risen Christ. If Christ is not raised I am yet in my sins and thus cut off from fellowship with my perfectly holy Maker. Paul explains this in the chapter from 1 Corinthians I mentioned in my last post.

How do you know that a non-Christian's experiences of God or the Divine are not identical, similar or more powerful?

I believe the Bible when it tells me that no one can truly know or fellowship with God apart from the mediatorial work of Christ.

1 Timothy 2:5-6
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.


All those who have not from their heart confessed Christ as their Saviour and Lord are "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1) What spiritual experiences they think they are having are, according to Scripture, deceiving counterfeits of the real thing.

THe strength of what I feel is not the litmus test of the reality of my faith. I believe as I do because I believe the Bible tells me the truth, not because I have some powerful sensations about it. People of other faiths have powerful emotional and sensory experiences, too. If strength of feeling was what decided the truth of a thing, we'd all be in terrible trouble!

Describe the sensation or experience of having your "sins forgiven".

It's much the same sensation or experience as being told by someone that they love you, or they think you're smart, or attractive, or a good athlete, etc.

What is it about this experience that justifies such a claim? How is this phrase not just an abstraction? What grounds it in reality?

"My sins are forgiven" is a statement that is grounded in reality by the Ultimate Source of Reality from which it comes: God Himself. I believe the Bible is the Word of God and so, when God tells me in Scripture that my confession of my sin to Him results in His forgiveness of that sin, I am confident that it is so.

Selah.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

I believe the crucifixion is a symbol as much as anything. There are a lot of layers of meaning.

I believe Christ died to show us how to live, b/c no good can enter the world without self-sacrifice.