The morality of Biblical Christianity vs secular morality

[Organic]

As has been stated many times before, atheism has no basis for morality. Morality in atheism comes down to a matter of opinion. However, just because someone is a theist doesn't mean they follow the commandments of Jesus. A person can believe in God and still do immoral things. What I'm talking about is the commandments of the New Testament vs secular morality.

The majority of people in society, whether they are theists or atheists, don't follow the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. It should not surprise us then that a lot of crime, evil, and injustice happens in our society. To think secular morality is a good thing is a delusion. If I follow the teachings of the New Testament, I am to love others, not steal, not lie, not commit adultery, not murder, not mistreat the poor, help the widows, and be forgiving. Secular morality cannot and doesn't offer such a basis. Let me give an example:

If an atheist was sent to prison and he had a choice of cells: he could either share a cell with a group of unrepentant rapists and murderers, or he could share a cell with a group of born again Christians who decided to repent and follow Jesus, I'm sure that most atheists would prefer to share a cell with the Christians. The atheist would know that unrepentant rapists and murderers have no basis for their morality. Or what about the prison guards? Would an atheist prefer to live in a prison where the prison guards were born again Christians who believed in caring for their inmates, or would atheists prefer to live in a prison where the guards did as they pleased? Some of the prison guards in American prisons are brutal. They have even tortured the inmates.

This is why the commandments of Jesus are way superior to the morals of secular morality. If atheists disagree then I want them to tell me: would they prefer to share a prison cell with unrepentant criminals, or with born again Christians?

 

[IanCG]

As has been stated many times before, atheism has no basis for morality.

And has been refuted, many many times before. If you're not going to listen, why bother making yet another thread about it?

would they prefer to share a prison cell with unrepentant criminals, or with born again Christians?

That is a false dichotomy. There's nothing stopping Christians from doing bad or "backsliding" and doing bad again, and just because you're not a Christian doesn't mean you're unrepentant.

 

[Ana the Ist]

As has been stated many times before, atheism has no basis for morality. Morality in atheism comes down to a matter of opinion. However, just because someone is a theist doesn't mean they follow the commandments of Jesus. A person can believe in God and still do immoral things. What I'm talking about is the commandments of the New Testament vs secular morality.

The majority of people in society, whether they are theists or atheists, don't follow the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. It should not surprise us then that a lot of crime, evil, and injustice happens in our society. To think secular morality is a good thing is a delusion. If I follow the teachings of the New Testament, I am to love others, not steal, not lie, not commit adultery, not murder, not mistreat the poor, help the widows, and be forgiving. Secular morality cannot and doesn't offer such a basis. Let me give an example:

If an atheist was sent to prison and he had a choice of cells: he could either share a cell with a group of unrepentant rapists and murderers, or he could share a cell with a group of born again Christians who decided to repent and follow Jesus, I'm sure that most atheists would prefer to share a cell with the Christians. The atheist would know that unrepentant rapists and murderers have no basis for their morality. Or what about the prison guards? Would an atheist prefer to live in a prison where the prison guards were born again Christians who believed in caring for their inmates, or would atheists prefer to live in a prison where the guards did as they pleased? Some of the prison guards in American prisons are brutal. They have even tortured the inmates.

This is why the commandments of Jesus are way superior to the morals of secular morality. If atheists disagree then I want them to tell me: would they prefer to share a prison cell with unrepentant criminals, or with born again Christians?

At least this thread has a question....and my answer is "it depends entirely upon why the born again Christians went to jail". For example, if the born again Christians are in jail for rape and murder, then it makes no difference to me who I share my cell with.

 

[Rajni]

A re-hash of two other threads that have since been removed.
Alrighty, then...

.
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[Organic]

And has been refuted, many many times before. If you're not going to listen, why bother making yet another thread about it?



That is a false dichotomy. There's nothing stopping Christians from doing bad or "backsliding" and doing bad again, and just because you're not a Christian doesn't mean you're unrepentant.

It would be wise to pay attention to my posts before you reply. I was referring to sharing a cell with Christians who were following the teachings of Jesus. Would an atheist prefer to share a cell with unrepentant criminals?

 

[Organic]

At least this thread has a question....and my answer is "it depends entirely upon why the born again Christians went to jail". For example, if the born again Christians are in jail for rape and murder, then it makes no difference to me who I share my cell with.

You didn't pay attention to what I said. I said inmates who decided to repent--meaning people who decided to repent while they were in prison. Or would you prefer to share a cell with a group of people who were unrepentant? I myself would prefer to share a cell with people who followed the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Marius27]

It would be wise to pay attention to my posts before you reply. I was referring to sharing a cell with Christians who were following the teachings of Jesus. Would an atheist prefer to share a cell with unrepentant criminals?

If they didn't have the morality to avoid doing the crime and ending up in prison in the first place, I have no reason to trust that they are some how incapable of committing another heinous crime just because they claim to now be Christian.

In case you aren't aware, most violent prison inmates identify as Christian.

 

[bhsmte]

As has been stated many times before, atheism has no basis for morality. Morality in atheism comes down to a matter of opinion. However, just because someone is a theist doesn't mean they follow the commandments of Jesus. A person can believe in God and still do immoral things. What I'm talking about is the commandments of the New Testament vs secular morality.

The majority of people in society, whether they are theists or atheists, don't follow the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. It should not surprise us then that a lot of crime, evil, and injustice happens in our society. To think secular morality is a good thing is a delusion. If I follow the teachings of the New Testament, I am to love others, not steal, not lie, not commit adultery, not murder, not mistreat the poor, help the widows, and be forgiving. Secular morality cannot and doesn't offer such a basis. Let me give an example:

If an atheist was sent to prison and he had a choice of cells: he could either share a cell with a group of unrepentant rapists and murderers, or he could share a cell with a group of born again Christians who decided to repent and follow Jesus, I'm sure that most atheists would prefer to share a cell with the Christians. The atheist would know that unrepentant rapists and murderers have no basis for their morality. Or what about the prison guards? Would an atheist prefer to live in a prison where the prison guards were born again Christians who believed in caring for their inmates, or would atheists prefer to live in a prison where the guards did as they pleased? Some of the prison guards in American prisons are brutal. They have even tortured the inmates.

This is why the commandments of Jesus are way superior to the morals of secular morality. If atheists disagree then I want them to tell me: would they prefer to share a prison cell with unrepentant criminals, or with born again Christians?

You are to the moral question, what Gottservant is to evolution.

You both try so desperately to make your claim and have it fit your preconceived belief, by retro fitting whatever is necessary to fit your story.

 

[bhsmte]

You didn't pay attention to what I said. I said inmates who decided to repent--meaning people who decided to repent while they were in prison. Or would you prefer to share a cell with a group of people who were unrepentant? I myself would prefer to share a cell with people who followed the teachings of Jesus.

And how do you determine whether those who decided to repent were genuine?

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

As has been stated many times before, atheism has no basis for morality.

It's bound to be said many times if you keep making sock accounts saying the same thing over and over.

If atheists disagree then I want them to tell me: would they prefer to share a prison cell with unrepentant criminals, or with born again Christians?

First, I'll set aside the fact that this is a false dichotomy and provide an answer on the terms of the question: the 'unrepentant criminal'. Given that there are disproportionately few atheists in prison, and disproportionately numerous theists, it would be nice to at least have something in common with my cellmate, namely that we don't equate 'repentance' with the appeasing of imaginary beings.

Second, it bears pointing out that in the cartoon world of Christian morality, there is no difference.

The unrepentant criminal could bludgeon me to death with a dumbell, then sincerely ask divine forgiveness. I go to hell, he goes to heaven.

The Christian could bludgeon me to death with a dumbell, then sincerely ask divine forgiveness. I go to hell, he goes to heaven.

In neither instance is the person required to make amends with anyone or anything other than the divinity. There is zero responsibility to any individuals affected by the crime or society at large. All that matters is that the divinity is appeased.

Thankfully, we live in reality, where that is not the moral system we live under.

Third, I will point out to you for at least the fifth time that your moral philosophy is epistemologically vacuous, and can therefor be dismissed out of hand.

 

[Organic]

It's bound to be said many times if you keep making sock accounts saying the same thing over and over.



First, I'll set aside the fact that this is a false dichotomy and provide an answer on the terms of the question: the 'unrepentant criminal'. Given that there are disproportionately few atheists in prison, and disproportionately numerous theists, it would be nice to at least have something in common with my cellmate.

Second, it bears pointing out that in the cartoon world of Christian morality, there is no difference.

The unrepentant criminal could bludgeon me to death with a dumbell, then sincerely ask divine forgiveness. I go to hell, he goes to heaven.

The Christian could bludgeon me to death with a dumbell, then sincerely ask divine forgiveness. I go to hell, he goes to heaven.

In neither instance is the person required to make amends with anyone or anything other than the divinity. There is zero responsibility to any individuals affected by the crime or society at large. All that matters is that the divinity is appeased.

Thankfully, we live in reality, where that is not the moral system we live under.

Third, I will point out to you for at least the fifth time that your moral philosophy is epistemologically vacuous, and can therefor be dismissed out of hand.

So you're saying that you would rather share a cell with people who were unrepentant criminals--rapists, murderers, and thieves, rather than share a cell with people who believed in following the teachings of Jesus?

 

[Organic]

If they didn't have the morality to avoid doing the crime and ending up in prison in the first place, I have no reason to trust that they are some how incapable of committing another heinous crime just because they claim to now be Christian.

In case you aren't aware, most violent prison inmates identify as Christian.

As I said to the other atheist, please pay attention to what I said. I was referring to people who repented while in prison, not before

 

[Organic]

And how do you determine whether those who decided to repent were genuine?

You're evading the point. Which cell would you choose?

 

[bhsmte]

So you're saying that you would rather share a cell with people who were unrepentant criminals--rapists, murderers, and thieves, rather than share a cell with people who believed in following the teachings of Jesus?

Anyone who goes through life maiming others and then decides to find Jesus and repent only after getting caught, is more mentally deranged then the criminal who chooses not to play this pretend game, for effect.

 

[Organic]

Anyone who goes through life maiming others and then decides to find Jesus and repent only after getting caught, is more mentally deranged then the criminal who chooses not to play this pretend game, for effect.

You keep evading the question. Yes, I know it will choke you admitting that you would prefer to live in a cell with born again Christians, rather than a cell of hardcore criminals, but this is one of the main reasons why I'm so opposed to atheism--because atheists are hardly ever honest. Atheists are the ones who have convinced me that atheism can never offer a moral basis. Atheists are the ones who have strengthened my faith.

 

[bhsmte]

You keep evading the question. Yes, I know it will choke you admitting that you would prefer to live in a cell with born again Christians, rather than a cell of hardcore criminals, but this is one of the main reasons why I'm so opposed to atheism--because atheists are hardly ever honest. Atheists are the ones who have convinced me that atheism can never offer a moral basis. Atheists are the ones who have strengthened my faith.

Any convicted murder, rapist etc. is in the same boat with me. Declaring they are born again would mean zero to me when it came to morality.

Does that answer your question? Put me wherever, it wouldn't matter with the crowd you have identified.

 

[jayem]

You didn't pay attention to what I said. I said inmates who decided to repent--meaning people who decided to repent while they were in prison. Or would you prefer to share a cell with a group of people who were unrepentant? I myself would prefer to share a cell with people who followed the teachings of Jesus.

Of course I would prefer my cellmate be a person committed to reforming himself, who has renounced violence, and is respectful of others. But do only followers of your concept of Jesus meet those criteria? Honestly I would much rather share a cell with someone who became an Ethical Humanist, or a Quaker, or a Buddhist. They have moral codes every bit as worthy as an Evangelical Christian. (And IMO, they're better, since they're not as legalistic, sanctimonious, and won't likely be constantly trying to convert me.)

So just you won't say I'm evading your question, I would chose the Biblical Christian over the violent sociopath. But I'd chose lot of others above him.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

So you're saying that you would rather share a cell with people who were unrepentant criminals--rapists, murderers, and thieves, rather than share a cell with people who believed in following the teachings of Jesus?

If we are actually living under a system of Christian morality, the answer is 'the unrepentant criminal'.

The unrepentant criminal could beat me to death at 8am, ask divine forgiveness at 9am and die of a heart-attack at 10am. He goes to heaven, I go to hell.

The Christian could beat me to death at 8am, ask divine forgiveness at 9am and die of a heart-attack at 10am. He goes to heaven, I go to hell.

But at least with the unrepentant criminal, I don't have to listen to him blather about Jesus. If there's anything more annoying than tattooed 'tough guy' Christians, I have yet to find it.

If we are not actually living under a system of Christian morality (also known as reality), the answer is still 'the unrepentant criminal'.

Again, because I wouldn't have to hear born-again-yesterday sermons.

Also because I don't accept the false dichotomy that 'unrepentant' and 'Christian' equates to 'bad' and 'good'.

Also, your moral philosophy is epistemologically vacuous. Are you going to address this fact some day?

 

[bhsmte]

Of course I would prefer my cellmate be a person committed to reforming himself, who has renounced violence, and is respectful of others. But do only followers of your concept of Jesus meet those criteria? Honestly I would much rather share a cell with someone who became an Ethical Humanist, or a Quaker, or a Buddhist. They have moral codes every bit as worthy as an Evangelical Christian. (And IMO, they're better, since they're not as legalistic, sanctimonious, and won't likely be constantly trying to convert me.)

So just you won't say I'm evading your question, I would chose the Biblical Christian over the violent sociopath. But I'd chose lot of others above him.

In this case, I believe all the possibilities would be sociopaths.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You didn't pay attention to what I said. I said inmates who decided to repent--meaning people who decided to repent while they were in prison. Or would you prefer to share a cell with a group of people who were unrepentant? I myself would prefer to share a cell with people who followed the teachings of Jesus.

They can claim to be repentant or follow Jesus all they liked. I'm not inclined to believe a bunch of rapists and murderers.