The Grafted Branch of Israel.

[GuardianShua]

Michael, where is it recorded that Messiah said this?

If you can not find it in the scriptures I provided, then I can explain it to you.

 

[SGM4HIM]

Lulav,

It's kind of like the Rorschach ink blot test, popular among psychologist in the 60's; you either see the image or you don't.

We tried.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I see a connection being hooked up with promises given to Abraham( Rom 4:11, 16; Gal 3:7 ). He was the father of Israel and many nations.

Christians are united with MJ, not in Israel, but in the promises to Abraham and ultimately in Christ through faith.

Amazing what being a child of Abraham through faith allows..

 

[yedida]

Amazing what being a child of Abraham through faith allows..

What do you mean by that statement?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

What do you mean by that statement?

Exactly as Brother SGM4HIM noted. Why are you asking?

 

[yedida]

Exactly as Brother SGM4HIM noted. Why are you asking?

Just wanted some clarification.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Just wanted some clarification.

Got ya.

 

[GuardianShua]

Lulav,

It's kind of like the Rorschach ink blot test, popular among psychologist in the 60's; you either see the image or you don't.

We tried.

The disciples were instructed to take the message first to the Jews. The message of the New Testament is for Gentile Christians also. If anyone does not see or understand what I am saying, then they should ask questions.

 

[Lulav]

Michael, all you've given is verses that contain 'branch'.

I asked where Messiah Yeshua said this



Where does Yeshua say that gentiles are a grafted branch into Israel and that Christians are now Israel in the NT. And by Christians that very much includes the one Billion Catholics in the world of course.

None of those explicitly said that.

If you can not find it in the scriptures I provided, then I can explain it to you.

Please do explain. Am I supposed to pick a couple of words from each one to make it say what you said?

Lulav,

It's kind of like the Rorschach ink blot test, popular among psychologist in the 60's; you either see the image or you don't.

We tried.

I'll try that.

Michael said:

Yahshua said we are a grafted BRANCH into Israel;

Still waiting to see where exactly he said this.

that means that Christians are now Israel in the new covenant.

That is your interpretation of something you still have not been able to produce.

If you mean that Christians are now the Israel of Jeremiah 31, do you mean that they are the lost tribes or they have replaced the nation of Israel?

 

[Gozreht]

We, as Christians, are not grafted into Isra'el, physically. We don't become Hebrew just because we believe (although my last name is Herzog, no relation to Chaim) We are not grafted into Judaism, religiously. We do not become Jewish or sacrifice, raise altars, and have ceremonious cleansings (although some of these I think we should) We are grafted into the promises and inheritance since we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah. We believe he is the fulfillment of the law. And these promises are given to those who believe.

JCPRO,
Just because we are gentiles does not mean we are not circumcised physically. It is still a widely practiced procedure here in the US. But if all you are worried about is follwing the law, then what do you do about sacrificing? I know it is something you can not do physically today since there is no Temple. But you yourself said youhave to follow God's commands. In Leviticus chapter 16 it says athe atonement sacrifice is permanent, forever, right? But as long as you hold it in your heart and still hold all the festivals then you are okay, right? But that is the same thing with believers in Jesus as the Meshiach. He has become the sacrifice. He was God's spotless lamb. What he did, he did once for all. We (all believers, not just Christians) are the Temple. We wash ourselves, we pray, we keep ourselves holy, we still go to the Holy of Holies (in our heart) and meet with God personally. Jesus has become the High Priest. We pray through him and He makes atonements for us. In this way is still permanent.

 

[visionary]

We, as Christians, are not grafted into Isra'el. We are not grafted into Judaism. We are grafted into the promises and inheritance since we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah. Promises are given to those who believe.

JCPRO,
Just because we are gentiles does not mean we are not circumcised physically. It is still a widely practiced procedure here in the US. But if all you are worried about is follwing the law, then what do you do about sacrificing? I know it is something you can not do physically today since there is no Temple. But you yourself said youhave to follow God's commands. In Leviticus chapter 16 it says athe atonement sacrifice is permanent, forever, right? But as long as you hold it in your heart and still hold all the festivals then you are okay, right? But that is the same thing with believers in Jesus as the Meshiach. He has become the sacrifice. He was God's spotless lamb. What he did, he did once for all. We (all believers, not just Christians) are the Temple. We wash ourselves, we pray, we keep ourselves holy, we still go to the Holy of Holies (in our heart) and meet with God personally. Jesus has become the High Priest. We pray through him and He makes atonements for us. In this way is still permanent.

Where is your judeo-christian faith?

 

[Gozreht]

What do you mean? By the way I added more stuff to my last post and then I saw this post by you.

 

[visionary]

What do you mean? By the way I added more stuff to my last post and then I saw this post by you.

Promises are contingent that you believe in Yeshua, as the king of Judah whose kingdom you want to be a part of.

 

[Gozreht]

The Father said that David's throne will always be. Jesus now sits on that throne. So I do believe he is the king of kings.

 

[visionary]

The Father said that David's throne will always be. Jesus now sits on that throne. So I do believe he is the king of kings.

And where do you find His kingdom explained? Where do you do locate this government laws of the land?

 

[Gozreht]

His kingdom is not of this world. He even said that himself. We are citizens of his kingdom, you and I. This world is not our home. Now if you are asking me where would Jesus be sitting if he were here on earth, then off the top of my head...I would say...Jerusalem????? But we all know that his kingdom is not earthly, John 18:36.

 

[visionary]

His kingdom is not of this world. He even said that himself. We are citizens of his kingdom, you and I. This world is not our home. Now if you are asking me where would Jesus be sitting if he were here on earth, then off the top of my head...I would say...Jerusalem????? But we all know that his kingdom is not earthly, John 18:36.

And He gave you no instructions as to where to learn of His kingdom? He left no people who live according to His rule? He gave you no clue as to how He is going to rule His kingdom with an iron rod? How His priests and temple services were not examples on how to see his body?

 

[Gozreht]

I am not quite for sure why you are asking me all these things. I will try and put all my beliefs here as short as possible for you.

I believe the Torah was a covenant. It was meant for those who God chose as a people and for those who deisred to be with God who were not chosen. One for the physical world.
I believe the B'rit Hadashah is a new covenant. It was meant to fulfill the Torah, not as a total replacement. But where Yeshua completed then we are no longer bound. One for the spiritual world.

Yeshua is the Son of God, born of a virgin, the promised Meshiach of the Tanakh. He came and lived a spotless life. He is a reflection of God the Father. He gave up his life to be the spotless lamb, once for all.

His kingdom is a heavenly kingdom. His laws are spiritual, although he left leaders to teach about what to do in both physical and spiritual realms.

His people is made up of anyone who believes he was the spotless lamb, both Jews and Gentiles.

He will return for those people.

I am not quite for sure where we disagree. I hope you have no quarrel with me. I feel Christians have thrown away their Jewish roots and have become "exclusive" in their own manner thinking they are the new chosen, I do not believe that as stated in my first post here.

I hope that is enough information. I would like to hear what you think. If you disagree I am willing to accept that and want to learn more.

 

[visionary]

I am not quite for sure why you are asking me all these things. I will try and put all my beliefs here as short as possible for you.

I believe the Torah was a covenant. It was meant for those who God chose as a people and for those who deisred to be with God who were not chosen. One for the physical world.
I believe the B'rit Hadashah is a new covenant. It was meant to fulfill the Torah, not as a total replacement. But where Yeshua completed then we are no longer bound. One for the spiritual world.

Yeshua is the Son of God, born of a virgin, the promised Meshiach of the Tanakh. He came and lived a spotless life. He is a reflection of God the Father. He gave up his life to be the spotless lamb, once for all.

His kingdom is a heavenly kingdom. His laws are spiritual, although he left leaders to teach about what to do in both physical and spiritual realms.

His people is made up of anyone who believes he was the spotless lamb, both Jews and Gentiles.

He will return for those people.

I am not quite for sure where we disagree. I hope you have no quarrel with me. I feel Christians have thrown away their Jewish roots and have become "exclusive" in their own manner thinking they are the new chosen, I do not believe that as stated in my first post here.

I hope that is enough information. I would like to hear what you think. If you disagree I am willing to accept that and want to learn more.

I highlighted where I believe a key missing ingredient is.. Fulfilling and requiring us to do like wise... see the spiritual depth to that which was written on stone to be written on your heart.. Now that is the new covenant.

 

[Gozreht]

I like it.