the fig tree.. explanation please.

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

I know that the fig tree is thought by most to be a symbol of latter-day Israel, but why? The olive tree is the usual symbol for historic Israel. So why do most think the fig tree is such? I wonder because of when Jesus talked about the fig tree putting forth leaves, and knowing that as a sign for the coming of the kingdom.
I tend to think also that the fig tree is modern Israel, but I'd like to get some more opinions on the matter.

 

[Houly]

Yeah, many of the prophets related Israel to a fig tree.

http://www.heraldmag.org/literature/proph_24.htm

http://cccpastors.blogspot.com/2009/02/old-testament-fig-tree.html

The fig tree is used by the prophets as a symbol of Israel. A fruitful tree is a sign of blessing and obedience, while a tree without fruit is a sign of Israel’s poor spiritual condition (cf. Jeremiah 8:13; 29:17; Hosea 9:10, 16; Joel 1:7; and Micah 7:1-6). Furthermore, the prophets speak of the destruction of the fig tree as a metaphor for judgment upon Israel (Hosea 2:12; Isaiah 34:4).

 

[Interplanner]

Not only is it used symbolically in parables about Jesus' expectations for Israel then, he also is on his way to Jerusalem in one scene and curses an unfruitful fig tree which shrivels up. There is no explanation there, just the similarity to what he said elsewhere about Israel. The same message as the vineyard.

related to this is Lk 23, in which he assumes we know the difference between green wood and dry. The question is how much time he is refering to. If they crucify when wood is fresh cut, how traitorous will they be when it is dry? Or to keep the idea of hiding from God in calling on the mountains, 'if they hide from God, when wood is fresh cut, what weird things will they do when it is dry?'

How much time, or what things is he refering to? I think it is a choice of:
his crucifixion & the Dof J or
the DofJ and the 2nd coming

These 'main events' of Israel don't match up in actual time, of course, but I do wonder if he was thinking of what would become of that generation (in Lk 23) because of how the lament started: don't weep for me, but for what will happen at the end of this generation (when your babies are full grown).

Back to the fig tree's leaves (Lk 21), it is partly a statement that the kingdom of God has come fully on the heels of the event so of the DofJ. The expectation was that this generation would see all these things (v32), although, again the things that have to do with the end of the world were up to the father to decide. Across the page is 22:18, 29 and the kingdom of God has come by the next time the apostles have the bread and wine of the intimate supper of the new Israel. (Those who are expecting an actual public kingdom state should reread 24+. The disciples themselves had that expectation and were wrong!).

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

Yeah, many of the prophets related Israel to a fig tree.

The Fig Tree

thanks, I read the first link.

 

[Bible2]

hiscosmicgoldfish said in post 1:

the fig tree.. explanation please.

Matthew 24:32-34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

-

The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming, for it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel that was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit, for it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman army.

 

[Interplanner]

bible2, why does Rev 19:7 mark the start of a tribulation???

your restored old covenant Israel is nonsense. You have skipped the NT, that's all. The NT says its Israel has been restored, and is not going to be old, and you have really created a fantasy theology.

1948 Israel means as little prophetically as the reinstatement of Jerusalem in the 11th century or as the independence of Nigeria in 1965.

Prophecy is about the Christian mission, because the event that happened (the Gospel) is itself a mission to be taken to the nations in fulfillment of the promises to Abraham. that is why both Peter's and Paul's main sermons feature that: Acts 3:25 ('the blessing will be reckoned/accounted through the Seed') and 13:32-39 is English too plain to describe. Peter is saying the same thing (in 3's sermon) as Paul did in Gal 3, which is more essential to understand than one verse of Mt 24 & //s or the Rev.

*the science of eschatology is to know the patterns of the 2500 quotes of the OT by the NT

 

[Jipsah]

Matthew 24:32-34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel

Could, maybe, but it ain't at all likely.

 

[Mr.Waffles]

I know that the fig tree is thought by most to be a symbol of latter-day Israel, but why? The olive tree is the usual symbol for historic Israel. So why do most think the fig tree is such? I wonder because of when Jesus talked about the fig tree putting forth leaves, and knowing that as a sign for the coming of the kingdom.
I tend to think also that the fig tree is modern Israel, but I'd like to get some more opinions on the matter.

I think it would be an error to assume that the fig tree automatically equates to Israel. Well, it may or may not symbolize Israel, depends on the context...in the end it's all about context. In Matthew chapter 24, it does seem clear that Israel is not the focal point, and that the fig tree mentioned here is not in reference to Israel.

Just earlier, Christ was describing the various events that will unfold during the end times (tribulation period). To me, I see it simply as Christ telling us how immediate His return is in relation to these very events.

Essentially, Christ is telling us that the very same "generation" who will witness the end-time tribulation events will also witness His Second Coming, they will by no means pass away before everything is fulfilled.

We are being told that it will all be in quick succession.

 

[Codger]

I know that the fig tree is thought by most to be a symbol of latter-day Israel, but why? The olive tree is the usual symbol for historic Israel. So why do most think the fig tree is such? I wonder because of when Jesus talked about the fig tree putting forth leaves, and knowing that as a sign for the coming of the kingdom.
I tend to think also that the fig tree is modern Israel, but I'd like to get some more opinions on the matter.

The Fig Tree Cursed
Mark 11:12-14
12The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it.

There is a Jewish tradition that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was the fig tree. This is because Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves right after they had disobeyed God. Jesus was giving us a message that even the disciples did not seem to pick up on. They only looked at how quickly the tree withered. They didn't ask the right question because they assumed that he was just looking for something to eat - not so. The problem that a lot of us have is the fact that Jesus destroyed the tree because

it did not bear fruit out of season. This is not very fair or rational is it? This
happened just a couple days before the crucifixion.

What Jesus was doing was extremely important. He was cursing the fig tree as a symbol of the fall from the garden - never again would this tree be the cause of the fall of man. Jesus - the second Adam - undid the fall of Adam and Eve. This also in itself seems to confirm the Jewish tradition that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was indeed the fig tree.

 

[Interplanner]

is it how quickly, or how obviously indicated? Leaves means fruit is near. Indicators all through Judea means the DofJ is near.

 

[Knee V]

It's a simple parable: just as when you see leaves and you know it's almost summer, when you see these signs you know it's almost the end.

In fact, one of the Gospels (I think it's Luke), Jesus says, "Look at the fig tree, AND ALL THE TREES..." Do "all the trees" represent Israel? No.

There is no reason to read Israel into this parable. The only way one can see that is if one is already taught to see it and then reads it I to the text. Israel simply is not part of thst parable. The account in Luke alone should be enough to put that theory to rest.

 

[ebedmelech]

To take "the parable of the fig tree", and try to say the fig tree is Israel is incorrect based on reading the parable itself.

The point to the disciples in this parable is how to understand that when they see all the signs He has givens them...that they can know the judgment of Jerusalem is coming upon them.

This is why Jesus sums up the parable saying...Matthew 24:33:
33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

The nex passage is where people get this wrong, thinking that "this generation", is a future generation, when it's really the generation of that day...Matthew 24:34:
34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Jesus is speaking to that 1st century generation...not us today.

When you do the research on everytime the Lord said "this generation" He's speaking to that generation of the 1st century.

Check it out.

 

[Interplanner]

Well, that generation at that location...was Israel! It was his generation. It was his countrymen.

 

[Codger]

It's a simple parable: just as when you see leaves and you know it's almost summer, when you see these signs you know it's almost the end.

In fact, one of the Gospels (I think it's Luke), Jesus says, "Look at the fig tree, AND ALL THE TREES..." Do "all the trees" represent Israel? No.

There is no reason to read Israel into this parable. The only way one can see that is if one is already taught to see it and then reads it I to the text. Israel simply is not part of thst parable. The account in Luke alone should be enough to put that theory to rest.

Exactly, people with an agenda are often seeing scripture eisegetically. I would call Jesus' words a simile. you know A is to B like C is to D. There is NOTHING there about Israel.

 

[Manasseh_]

right, it wasn't about the tree, it was about signs and seasons and knowing what to do when these signs begin

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

 

[Interplanner]

Whether it is Israel depends on who "you" is in 'when you see.' As far as I can tell, it was Israel and it was that generation.

 

[Knee V]

Luke 21:29-31 (NKJV) "Then He spoke to them a parable: 'Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.'"

Show me Israel in this. If the fig tree stands for Israel, then what do "all the trees" stand for? Nothing, obviously, just like the fig tree.

 

[Interplanner]

because everything has a context. He said a lot about his country, people, generation. Would you like a list of everything--analogy, simile, methaphor, image, motif, theme--that is about Israel? For ex.:
vineyard
wedding
weather
employees
sons
children's songs in the market...

He agonized over what was going to happen to that generation. It is extremely strange that futurism is obsessed with saying he was not speaking about that generation.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

To take "the parable of the fig tree", and try to say the fig tree is Israel is incorrect based on reading the parable itself.

The point to the disciples in this parable is how to understand that when they see all the signs He has givens them...that they can know the judgment of Jerusalem is coming upon them.

This is why Jesus sums up the parable saying...Matthew 24:33:
33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

The nex passage is where people get this wrong, thinking that "this generation", is a future generation, when it's really the generation of that day...Matthew 24:34:
34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Jesus is speaking to that 1st century generation...not us today.

When you do the research on everytime the Lord said "this generation" He's speaking to that generation of the 1st century.

Check it out.

I cant see how that works; the fig tree did not put forth leaves, back in Jesus' day; Jesus cursed the fig tree as a symbolic act to say to the witnesses that the nation of Israel was fruitless, and Jesus also spoke a parable about the gardener giving the fig tree more time, before being cut down.
How could watching for the fig tree putting forth leaves, as a sign that summer is near (the kingdom) if that Israel didn't, and the kingdom didn't come?
Doesn't work.
and I have no particular schooling on this matter, with pre-conceived ideas about latter-day Israel.
but I agree that 'all the trees' is about all the nations, not just Israel.

 

[Bible2]

hiscosmicgoldfish said in post 19:

but I agree that 'all the trees' is about all the nations, not just Israel.

In Luke 21:29, the original Greek word (pas, G3956) translated as "all" doesn't have to mean absolutely all, but can mean "all manner of" (Acts 10:12). And, indeed, all trees aren't deciduous, so that Luke 21:30 wouldn't apply to absolutely all trees. Also, in prophecy, various trees can represent various nations (Ezekiel 31), so that Luke 21:29 can refer to the various nations (including Israel) that gained or regained independence shortly after World War II. Also "these things" in Luke 21:31 include the never-fulfilled, worldwide events of Luke 21:25,26,35, which must occur right before Jesus' never-fulfilled 2nd coming (Luke 21:27, Matthew 24:29-31) and his establishment on the earth of the physical aspect of the kingdom of God during the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Similarly, Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all the events of the tribulation and Jesus' 2nd coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church "immediately after" the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 didn't mean that the tribulation, 2nd coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Matthew 24:34 can include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) "immediately after" the tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).