The Fifteen

[JohnDB]

#fifteen has been a tag line for a group inside the SBC.

Where I can agree with some of the things that they are about i don't like everything they are promoting.

What say you?

 

[JLR1300]

Who are they and what kinds of things are they teaching?

 

[JohnDB]

They are a group of Calvinists inside the SVC complaining about the literature that Lifeway has been putting out. From the study guides to the schlock they sell in the retail stores .

And i would happen to agree.

Baptist is not Presbyterian or Church of Christ or Methodist or even Catholic.
They have left the practice of teaching hermeneutics and wandered into the realm of pop culture. The lessons focus so hard on morality that scripture has become an after thought.
Also so many principles of other denominations are being introduced that its impossible to refute them all in any lesson.

Also Lifeway has shifted and is now focused on brand-name pastors writing the materials...as if those guys actually had the time to prepare them. (They are all ghost written)

So the "brand-name" Calvinists of the SBC are whining.

 

[bushinoki]

Can you provide a link with more information please?

As for the pop fluff that has been featured more and more in Christian stores, I do agree, it's getting out of hand. I don't need spiritual milk, I need meat.

Last time I was in Barne's and Noble's, I was so tempted to do the smart-alecky thing and move all Joel Osteen's books to the "New Age" section. It took everything I had to restrain myself.

 

[JohnDB]

Simply put "#the15 baptists" your google and see what pops up.

 

[bushinoki]

Well, I ended up at their own website, and I find myself wondering why they aren't Independent Fundamentalists. They have valid complaints, but they aren't getting too far because of some of their less valid complaints. They don't like Batterson, got it. Also, one person's comment about C. S. Lewis really stood out to me as to how narrow minded these people are.

 

[Hupomone10]

Would someone post the website for this? My search led mostly to snippits from people, but I feel I am missing the main thing that started this.


I found this from my search though, a comment from a person who admits he is not a calvinist:

"It seems that #the15 gang condemns LifeWay for the heresy sold on its shelf. Their agenda has little to do with their Calvinism, and I couldn’t agree with them more."
here

This was a comment by Dr. Randy White, who says he is a dispensationalist but not a calvinist.

He also said this:
"I’m not a Calvinist, but I’m one of #the15. When LifeWay trustees do the work they need to do, I may be back. My desire is to be a Southern Baptist. I’ve invested so much in them, and they in me. But I cannot be bought, and I will stand on my convictions."

Interesting. Haven't been in Lifeway much lately and didn't realize this.

Maybe it's time to listen to what they're saying rather than worrying about what theological camp they are in, at least as far as the Calvinism thing goes.

Blessings,
H.

 

[JohnDB]

That's why i find it interesting.

Valid complaints by an invalid group.

 

[Hupomone10]

Would someone post the website for this? My search led mostly to snippits from people, but I feel I am missing the main thing that started this.

 

[twin1954]

Would someone post the website for this? My search led mostly to snippits from people, but I feel I am missing the main thing that started this.

I am not the least bit concerned about the SBC as I am not of the SBC but here is what my search came up with:
Is this the WORST book Lifeway sells? UPDATED 1 and 2 |

 

[mikedsjr]

They are a group of Calvinists inside the SVC complaining about the literature that Lifeway has been putting out. From the study guides to the schlock they sell in the retail stores .

And i would happen to agree.
......snip......
Also Lifeway has shifted and is now focused on brand-name pastors writing the materials...as if those guys actually had the time to prepare them. (They are all ghost written)

So the "brand-name" Calvinists of the SBC are whining.

I'm actually surprised it has taken this long for Lifeway to be called out by anyone. However I'm not surprised Christian leaders of Lifeway are showing their own muscle by dismissing this a "Calvinists" whining. I mean, this is really about capitalism over spiritual walks.

 

[MrJim]

We have a Lifeway in our town~surprised at the selections actually~guy that runs it is a deacon at the SBC I used to attend...do carry a few Roman Catholic titles in the "Classics" section:

Dark Night of the Soul/St John of the Cross
Confessions/Augustine
Imitation of Christ/Thomas à Kempis
The Practice of the Presence of God/Brother Lawrence

..and a boatload of Charismatic titles...

..used to be a Christian Light Bookstore but after Lifeway took it over the "Church History" section was demolished and the "kitsch" level was kicked up a notch but I still stop in every couple months to look around.

 

[JohnDB]

I'm actually surprised it has taken this long for Lifeway to be called out by anyone. However I'm not surprised Christian leaders of Lifeway are showing their own muscle by dismissing this a "Calvinists" whining. I mean, this is really about capitalism over spiritual walks.

I'm not a leader of anything except for the rubber duck in my bathtub.
And I'm guessing as far as motives for those whining.

But it possibly could have started back when Mr. Mims was in charge of Lifeway. I'm not sure of that either.

 

[Vigilant]

Would someone post the website for this? My search led mostly to snippits from people, but I feel I am missing the main thing that started this.

I'm not sure there IS a reason for this group, other than to complain about LifeWay. Sure, LifeWay has some studies that I wouldn't take part in, but good grief! What denominationally-owned publisher does everything exactly according to the wishes of everyone in the denomination?

Seems to me they're just a bunch of IFBs who think they've got to remain stuck in the SBC to "change" it. They could fix that. Find an IFB church and join it!

 

[mikedsjr]

Vigilant,

Seriously?

Lutheran's Concordia Publishing House for one. Name me one item in their store that goes against their theology?

Catholic Book Publishing for another. Name me one item in their store that goes against their theology?

So i would ask you to recant your strawman.

 

[MrJim]

Vigilant,

Seriously?

Lutheran's Concordia Publishing House for one. Name me one item in their store that goes against their theology?

Catholic Book Publishing for another. Name me one item in their store that goes against their theology?

So i would ask you to recant your strawman.

Most Catholics I've met like CS Lewis so no surprise...

The Catholic Company - Search Results for CS Lewis

 

[Vigilant]

Vigilant,

Seriously?

Very.

Lutheran's Concordia Publishing House for one. Name me one item in their store that goes against their theology?

Try Googling "Lutheran political ethics in the 'new protestantism" and see what you get.

Catholic Book Publishing for another. Name me one item in their store that goes against their theology?

Ever hear of Fr. Andrew Greeley?

So i would ask you to recant your strawman.

No. In light of the fact it is no "straw man."

And by the way, just because I wouldn't take part in some LifeWay studies doesn't mean I distrust the theology. It means I don't venture into some of the arenas LifeWay takes care for, that's all.

 

[mikedsjr]

Vigilant....so you want me to google Lutheran stuff instead of find something non-lutheran in the Publishing house website?

So as far as Catholic Publishing you want me to google Fr. Andrew Greeley instead, because he isn't in the publishing house that i saw?

Your straw man is there. still. Your attacking something not specifically in question.

Question so i'm clear on your background: Do you respect what Ed Stetzer does and support his missional stance?

I've met Ed. He came to my previous church many times. Nice guy. Don't agree with his missional angle.

My issue in this how thing is this is a SBC owned company that is not in the business of Spiritual growth. I would rather go online to Amazon and buy from there than enter a business claiming to be Christian and have the false theology Lifeway carries. They don't give a rip about spritual growth. Just a capitalist company striving to make money. The money changers of our day.