The Duggar Scandal

[jazzflower92]

As a lot of you know the Duggars' son,Josh, has admitted to molesting his own sisters when he was younger. I believe the fact that so much people covered up for him was irresponsible and appalling. I do believe they did deserve to cancel the show because they need all the help they can get to undo the wrongs swept over the rug.

http://www.ibtimes.com/19-kids-coun...rage-sex-scandal-after-jim-bob-turned-1930280

I don't think we should excuse him but make him face the consequences. People can forgive others but the fact is that it shouldn't a get out of jail card.

 

[evoeth]

The most concerning part of the press release put out by the Duggars this week is that they are still lying about things.

The press release claims multiple times that Josh received "counseling" or "treatment." This is incorrect, as per the police report, page 29:

Det. Hignite then asked Mrs. Duggar about the training center she sent [redacted] to. She said it was not really a training center. Det. Hignite asked if the guy [redacted] talked to was a certified counselor. She said no. She said it was a guy they know in Little Rock who is remodeling a building. Det. Hignite asked if the guy was more of a mentor. She said kind of.

So as of this week the Duggars are still lying about the matter and trying to sweep it under the rug.

 

[Saricharity]

When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

John 8:7

I simply feel sorry for them. I pray they can rise above this and carry on with their lives in peace and forgiveness. They do no deserve my judgement or anyone elses. Social media is mean and opinionated.

 

[jazzflower92]

When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

John 8:7

I simply feel sorry for them. I pray they can rise above this and carry on with their lives in peace and forgiveness. They do no deserve my judgement or anyone elses. Social media is mean and opinionated.

The thing is they covered it up. Forgiveness is needed but covering up a person's actions is very wrong.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

It wasn't covered up.

He was 14 years old, a juvenile and police records for juveniles are not public record.

The website obtained them illegally if it's the actual police report.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

It wasn't covered up. He was a juvenile. He shouldn't face consequences now. It was already reported to the police and was dead. He repented. The family also doesn't need help. They've already said they dealt with it, healed, and have moved on. Who are you to say they still need help? The family is appalled that people won't listen to them when they say they have moved on and it is over.

 

[jazzflower92]

It wasn't covered up. He was a juvenile. He shouldn't face consequences now. It was already reported to the police and was dead. He repented. The family also doesn't need help. They've already said they dealt with it, healed, and have moved on. Who are you to say they still need help? The family is appalled that people won't listen to them when they say they have moved on and it is over.

However, the fact is that is they said they did. But reports are coming out that they didn't actually seek professional help. That's the problem is the fact that they are masking everything when I think some of the children haven't really gotten over it. Moving on means you addressed it and helped that person.

 

[evoeth]

However, the fact is that is they said they did. But reports are coming out that they didn't actually seek professional help. That's the problem is the fact that they are masking everything when I think some of the children haven't really gotten over it. Moving on means you addressed it and helped that person.

Precisely. The majority of the language from the Duggar family and from Josh is geared towards protecting him. And it is distorted, clearly at odds with official records. Very little is said of the victims other than, "they forgave him." Which honestly is very hard to buy. Of course a four year old or an eight year old is going to forgive her brother when her father asks it of her. The forgiveness of such a young child means very little in this context. Did the victims receive treatment or counseling? No. The Duggars don't claim that. They claim Josh, received counseling. Which is in direct contradiction to the police report.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

However, the fact is that is they said they did. But reports are coming out that they didn't actually seek professional help. That's the problem is the fact that they are masking everything when I think some of the children haven't really gotten over it. Moving on means you addressed it and helped that person.

The reports that they didn't seek counseling and covered up are coming from unreliable sources.

The main stream news networks are not reporting this.

Also, if your 14 year old son did what Josh did, would you expose him to the media?

Would the parents of the girls whom he molested by touching them inappropriately, want their daughter's names in the media ?

No parent will add negative stigma to their child's lives.

It's why the parents of teens molested by priests never prosecuted, because the stigma wasn't worth it.

They instead settled for payments to keep quiet themselves.

Jim

 

[Fantine]

Put the cart before the horse, but my oven beeper just rang and the chicken is ready.

Having seen a "Biblical counselor" in action, I have serious reservations about the adequacy of the counseling Josh Duggar (and his victims, including several sisters) received.

The "Biblical counselor" who lived in my neighborhood didn't believe in psychology. He didn't believe in neuroses. Addictions. Everything was "sin." He encouraged a bipolar man to go off his psychotropic drugs because he wasn't "sick." He was "sinful." The bipolar man's son had to leave home in his senior year of high school because of the ensuing abuse. The entire family suffered.

I once asked him what he thought of a Christian-based twelve step program as an alternative--Celebrate Recovery, a ministry begun by Saddleback Church. He said that if Christians attended that it would be a "sin" because they use a source other than the Bible--and that there is no such thing as "addiction." Just "sin."

He lived in our neighborhood for about two years and lost his congregation because of the damages created by his extremism.

Josh Duggar and his sisters needed the help of qualified psychological counselors--which could be supplemented with pastoral counseling, but not replaced by it.

 

[Saricharity]

Put the cart before the horse, but my oven beeper just rang and the chicken is ready.

Having seen a "Biblical counselor" in action, I have serious reservations about the adequacy of the counseling Josh Duggar (and his victims, including several sisters) received.

The "Biblical counselor" who lived in my neighborhood didn't believe in psychology. He didn't believe in neuroses. Addictions. Everything was "sin." He encouraged a bipolar man to go off his psychotropic drugs because he wasn't "sick." He was "sinful." The bipolar man's son had to leave home in his senior year of high school because of the ensuing abuse. The entire family suffered.

I once asked him what he thought of a Christian-based twelve step program as an alternative--Celebrate Recovery, a ministry begun by Saddleback Church. He said that if Christians attended that it would be a "sin" because they use a source other than the Bible--and that there is no such thing as "addiction." Just "sin."

He lived in our neighborhood for about two years and lost his congregation because of the damages created by his extremism.

Josh Duggar and his sisters needed the help of qualified psychological counselors--which could be supplemented with pastoral counseling, but not replaced by it.

Don't assume that every biblical counsellor is like that. There are many excellent, qualified counsellors and therapists who are biblical counsellors as well. As with anything, there are always extremists. We can't judge because we do not know. We do not know the qualifications of the counsellors involved. Pastoral counselling is very different from therapists. Therapists can be Christian and still be very well qualified.

 

[Fantine]

In cases where professional counseling is needed, it is fine to use a licensed professional counselor who has a Christian perspective. Biblical counseling which ignores the science of the mind and denies the existence of psychiatric illnesses which may require medications is inadequate for serious problems--although it certainly can be used as a supplement. When a Biblical counselor sees a situation which requires more serious intervention, it would be irresponsible not to recommend the patient get psychological help.

My feelings about Josh Duggar's situation is that, first of all, since he was a juvenile when the incidents occurred, he would have been treated as such by the courts. His record would have been sealed and expunged. He most likely would have been recommended for extensive therapy and probation.

The Duggars are politically savvy people--he was even a state legislator at one time of his life. I think they didn't report the crime because they distrust authority, and wanted to use their own type of counseling.

The director of the counseling institute Josh Duggar attended resigned last year after accusations of sexual harassment by 34 women.

http://www.people.com/article/inside-josh-duggar-treatment-

I feel sorriest for the Duggar daughters--molested because of inadequate supervision by their parents, victimized by unprofessional, inadequate "therapy," unprotected by the people who should protect them most, and now, subjected to a media circus because of the family's celebrity.

 

[Gordon Wright]

I expect it will be quite a while before the whole truth comes out. At this stage, all reports from any source are suspect.

Jeremiah 17:5- trust no one who isn't God.

 

[Red Fox]

In cases where professional counseling is needed, it is fine to use a licensed professional counselor who has a Christian perspective. Biblical counseling which ignores the science of the mind and denies the existence of psychiatric illnesses which may require medications is inadequate for serious problems--although it certainly can be used as a supplement. When a Biblical counselor sees a situation which requires more serious intervention, it would be irresponsible not to recommend the patient get psychological help.

My feelings about Josh Duggar's situation is that, first of all, since he was a juvenile when the incidents occurred, he would have been treated as such by the courts. His record would have been sealed and expunged. He most likely would have been recommended for extensive therapy and probation.

The Duggars are politically savvy people--he was even a state legislator at one time of his life. I think they didn't report the crime because they distrust authority, and wanted to use their own type of counseling.

The director of the counseling institute Josh Duggar attended resigned last year after accusations of sexual harassment by 34 women.

http://www.people.com/article/inside-josh-duggar-treatment-

I feel sorriest for the Duggar daughters--molested because of inadequate supervision by their parents, victimized by unprofessional, inadequate "therapy," unprotected by the people who should protect them most, and now, subjected to a media circus because of the family's celebrity.

I'm also concerned for Josh Duggar's own children and for his wife. It's too bad he can't be registered as a sex offender or can he?

 

[Fantine]

I expect it will be quite a while before the whole truth comes out. At this stage, all reports from any source are suspect.

Jeremiah 17:5- trust no one who isn't God.

The police reports were destroyed, but not before "In Touch" Magazine obtained them. I have seen them posted on FB several times and looked them over (the names of the victims are blacked out but the narrative makes it obvious that a few of the victims were Josh's sisters).

We will never see the records directly from the police department, but the lengthy copies of the police report I've seen on FB seem completely authentic.

• One of the sisters mentioned they had a dog named Jazmine and six cats. Only a Duggar with fifteen "J" named children would think of naming a dog Jazmine...

 

[Antigone]

Fifteen year olds do stupid things. I get that. What irked me here is, as others have pointed out, the focus on how Josh needs all our help and prayers. That might very well be true but I find it impossible that his parents wouldn't ask for the same thing for the victims, particularly because some of the victims were their own daughters. I get that Josh is the one under all the media pressure now, but it's almost as if they care less about their daughters, or that they feel they've somehow led him on. I know next to nothing about their situation and I probably shouldn't draw those conclusions, but they're making it very easy.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

John 8:7

I simply feel sorry for them. I pray they can rise above this and carry on with their lives in peace and forgiveness. They do no deserve my judgement or anyone elses. Social media is mean and opinionated.

I think compassion and grace for all involved is a benevolent response, but it shouldn't be the only one we give as Christians. Criticism isn't the same as contempt, and condemning wrongdoings isn't the same as hatefully condemning people who commit them. This is a complex matter that I feels needs to be carefully and responsibly discussed in a balanced away instead of just flooding them with sympathy and support, or hurling out verbal stones. If this was a private family we likely wouldn't be having public discussions about any of this, but since they are public figures by their own choice, the 33 page police report about the molestations and other factual evidence have been made public, and this has become a topic of international interest, we have to talk about it. Because the world isn't just talking about them, they're talking about us, talking about them.

Though Josh's crimes were committed in his youth, all the ramifications of them are not confined to then. Since the Duggars have misrepresented the counseling Josh received, it's reasonable to then question whether his victims were provided with appropriate care. There are allegedly five known victims, and that includes a girl outside of the family as well as his sisters. They might have fully healed, and they might have scars on their heart he put there and still feel the repercussions of his actions. We don't know how traumatizing or otherwise impactful it was for them. Apparently one of the victims requested that Josh's record be expunged, but we don't know if she was acting on behalf of the others as well, and if she was coerced into it or did it out of her own will. According to the LA Times the investigation into the family traced back to a letter that was discovered that described Josh's sexual misconduct over a period of time. A detailed account alleging that Josh Duggar had a history of molesting young girls was published in 2007 has also been found; it was written by someone who simply used a first name. I do feel like it's very insensitive and unfair and unfortunate to the victims for this to all be made public. They should have been afforded more control over what if anything they wanted disclosed. But knowledge of this is like the contents of Pandora's Box in that it cannot be put back in once released. It has to be dealt with.

I think the way we respond as Christians to this could have an impact on other victims of abuse who are following this story. I don't know if you remember, but there was a girl at camp who talked about being molested when she was younger by her stepmom's nephew who'd been hired to babysit her and her sister. The girls were too young in the beginning to fully understand why him wanting them to "pet his snake" and let him touch them was wrong, so it persisted for a long time. Her dad was outraged when it was eventually discovered but her stepmom extinguished his fury with manipulation about how the Christian response was to forgive. It was bullcrap. What she really meant by that was she wanted to protect her image since she was a youth minister at their church. All that happened to the child molester was he didn't babysit anymore. She was instructed to not tell anyone because it was a family matter "not to be aired." She struggled to reconcile how so much forgiveness could be given to him, but there was so little grace extended to her whenever she did anything wrong. There are other kids who've been abused and compelled to keep it silent, and made to feel like forgiveness meant forgetting and never seeking justice. I think reasonable criticism of how the Duggars handled matters is necessary.

 

[Fantine]

If the family had not chosen to appear on a long-running reality TV show the police report and other documents probably would never have been widely publicized.

They chose to expose their children to media scrutiny, and it became a Pandora's box that couldn't be shut at will.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

If the family had not chosen to appear on a long-running reality TV show the police report and other documents probably would never have been widely publicized.

They chose to expose their children to media scrutiny, and it became a Pandora's box that couldn't be shut at will.

Exactly. I know some have empathy for them and feel they "live in a fishbowl" with people peering in on their lives,
but the Duggar parents elected to put their family into an enormous aquarium. Their adult children have also chosen to lead public lives. They've reaped enormous benefits both financially ($95,000 per episode in later seasons supposedly, plus book deals, paid public speaking appearances, and much more) and personally with special opportunities provided for them over the years. Josh Duggar catapulted from being a used car salesman to an executive for the Family Research Council at a very young age without the education and other qualifications typical of a position that high. It's reasonable to assume that he was hired primarily because of his family's prominent reputation. As an adult, Josh Duggar made the decision to not disclose the molestation crimes when being vetted for that position. If he was applying for an ordinary job it would be understandable to not reveal juvenile offenses, but since his personal integrity and history were so critical to the position it was relevant.

The choice to lead public lives leads to more public scrutiny. They're also receiving more support from the public than many others have. There are many people who committed crimes as juveniles and received severe punishments with little clemency, or had consequences much steeper than Josh's. There are 13 and 14 year olds who've committed non-homicide crimes and been given life sentences for them without the possibility for parole. It's been banned in some states but there are previous convictions that stand.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I'm also concerned for Josh Duggar's own children and for his wife. It's too bad he can't be registered as a sex offender or can he?

He was 14. That's ridiculous.