The Covenant is only for Israel - Not the World

BABerean2

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Paul was not saying that God put us into bondage through what He command at Sinai,

Galatians 4:24

(CSB) These things are being taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery—this is Hagar.

(ESV) Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar.

(ESV+) Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two R9covenants. R10One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar.

(Geneva) By the which things another thing is ment: for these mothers are the two testaments, the one which is Agar of mount Sina, which gendreth vnto bondage.

(GW) I'm going to use these historical events as an illustration. The women illustrate two arrangements. The one woman, Hagar, is the arrangement made on Mount Sinai. Her children are born into slavery.

(HCSB) These things are illustrations, for the women represent the two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery—this is Hagar.

(KJV) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

(KJV+) Which thingsG3748 areG2076 an allegory:G238 forG1063 theseG3778 areG1526 theG3588 twoG1417 covenants;G1242 the oneG3391 G3303 fromG575 the mountG3735 Sinai,G4614 which genderethG1080 toG1519 bondage,G1397 whichG3748 isG2076 Agar.G28

(NKJV) which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—

(NLT) These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them.

(YLT) which things are allegorized, for these are the two covenants: one, indeed, from mount Sinai, to servitude bringing forth, which is Hagar;


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Soyeong

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Galatians 4:24

(CSB) These things are being taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery—this is Hagar.

(ESV) Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar.

(ESV+) Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two R9covenants. R10One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar.

(Geneva) By the which things another thing is ment: for these mothers are the two testaments, the one which is Agar of mount Sina, which gendreth vnto bondage.

(GW) I'm going to use these historical events as an illustration. The women illustrate two arrangements. The one woman, Hagar, is the arrangement made on Mount Sinai. Her children are born into slavery.

(HCSB) These things are illustrations, for the women represent the two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery—this is Hagar.

(KJV) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

(KJV+) Which thingsG3748 areG2076 an allegory:G238 forG1063 theseG3778 areG1526 theG3588 twoG1417 covenants;G1242 the oneG3391 G3303 fromG575 the mountG3735 Sinai,G4614 which genderethG1080 toG1519 bondage,G1397 whichG3748 isG2076 Agar.G28

(NKJV) which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—

(NLT) These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them.

(YLT) which things are allegorized, for these are the two covenants: one, indeed, from mount Sinai, to servitude bringing forth, which is Hagar;


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Again, I agree with Galatians 3:24, but disagree with how you are misconstruing it in various translations. We are children of the free woman and of Isaac and the Mosaic Covenant was made through that line, not through Hagar and Ishmael, so why do you think Paul connected it with the line of the bondswoman? Why would being children of the promise involve rejecting the promise? Why would Paul say that it is for freedom that God sets us free is God freed us in order to put us into bondage? Why are you ignoring what Paul said about the present Jerusalem and about the son of the flesh persecuting the son of the Spirit? You are ignoring major flaws of your interpretation that do not fit at all with the point Paul was making.
 
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BABerean2

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You are ignoring major flaws of your interpretation

Anyone who can read without bias can see Paul was speaking of "two covenants" and compared the one from Mount Sinai to "bondage" in Galatians chapter 4.

I am not the one who has a problem with "interpretation". Words have meaning.


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Soyeong

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Anyone who can read without bias can see Paul was speaking of "two covenants" and compared the one from Mount Sinai to "bondage" in Galatians chapter 4.

I am not the one who has a problem with "interpretation". Words have meaning.


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If you're not the one who has a problem with interpretation, then why won't you answer my questions?
 
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BABerean2

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If you're not the one who has a problem with interpretation, then why won't you answer my questions?

Any unbiased witnesses here can read what Paul said in Galatians 4:24.

I gave you the answer found in Galatians chapter 4, but you do not want to accept it.

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Soyeong

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Any unbiased witnesses here can read what Paul said in Galatians 4:24.

I gave you the answer found in Galatians chapter 4, but you do not want to accept it.

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I accept Galatians 4:24 and I interpret it in a way that is in accordance with Galatians 4:25-5:1 and the rest of the Bible while you interpret it in a way that is contrary to Galatians 4:25-5:1 as well as other parts of the Bible. You can't explain how your interpretation of Galatian 4:24 fits with Galatians 4:24-5:1, so you refuse to do that and offer noting but bluster in lieu of doing that.
 
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oikonomia

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I have not ignored either Jeremiah 31:32 or Galatians 3:16-29, but rather you are ignoring that I have already addressed those verses, such as in posts #118 and #140. It is bizarre that you would accuse me ignoring verses to make my position work while you are resolutely ignoring Jeremiah 31:33 in order to make your position work.


Likewise, I've already addressed this:

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts.
I warned you Soyeng. The more you exalt "the Torah, the Torah, the Torah" here the more I will speak of the new covenant of Christ Himself being imparted into man.

Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, . . . ? (2 Cor. 13:5)
Well? Do you??
However, one of the biggest reasons why Orthodox Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah is because in Christians teach that Jesus did away with the Torah, and thus the Gospel has been greatly hindered from reaching Orthodox Jews because Christians have perverted it.
They initially rejected Jesus because they disbeleived that He is God become a man.
They did not believe that the child born . . . was the incarnation of the Mighty God. (Isaiah 9:6) though He convincingly LIVED that.
They did not believe that the Son given . . . was the incarnation of the Eternal Father (Isaiah 9:6) though He persuasively lived that.

This Wonderful One is now dispensed INTO those who receive Him for a mingling of God the Spirit with thier human spirit.

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit,: (1 Cor. 6:7)
Jesus is the Jewish Messiah of Judaism, but he is not recognized by modern Orthodox Jews because he has been dressed up like a Gentile who taught his own religion that broke off from Orthodox Judaism.
You have to FIRST blame Jesus for thier rejection. Not that we Christains could not learn more about sharing the Gospel with people, including Jews. But the stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner. It is marvelous in our eyes and not grevious.

Jesus said to them, Have you never read in the Scriptures, “The stone which the builders rejected, this has become the head of the corner. This was from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes”?
Therefore I say to you that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and shall be given to a nation producing its fruit. (Matt. 21:41,42)


While it may be a grevious thing in your eyes, the Lord (quoting the prophet) said it was a marvelous sight.
1.) The first religionists could not believe that God became a man. - Orthodox Judaism.
2.) The latter religionists too often cannot believe that the Man became a life giving Spirit. - Traditional Christianity

Why not if you love the Lord Jesus believe and preach both? Especially live and preach that not the Torah but Jesus Christ HImself as the life giving Spirit now lives in the lovers of Christ. The problems is not that we do not have enough Christ. It is that we have too many things other than Christ.
In Acts 21:20, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith who were all zealous for the Torah, so Jews who were coming to faith were not ceasing to obey it,
That was them reluctant to realize the old covenant was over. It is historically realistic that they were slow to stop exalting the Torah so much.
James lingered in that attitude. Hence he boasted. You want to cling to exalting the Torah over the Son of God.

When Paul attempted to placate the suspicious Jews that he was not anti- the Law of Moses, his scheme blew up in his face.
God did not permit him to carry out that scheme. And he never again attempted to placate the Torah exalting Jews. Rather he gave us Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, Philppians. These are the heart of the New Testament. He (most likely) also authored Hebrews.
Christ is higher than Moses, the angels, Aaron, the Levitical priesthood, the Sabbath, the Law.

which means that there was a period of time estimated to be around 7-15 years between the resurrection of Jesus and the inclusion of Gentiles in Acts 10 during which all Christians were Torah observant Jews. So Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that recognized Jesus as its Messiah, which means that it is when Christianity returns to its roots and starts to practice Orthodox Judaism as followers of the Messiah that we will begin to undo centuries of damaged relations, we will be able to present Jesus to Orthodox Jews as the Messiah in a way that we will recognize, and we will once again start to see these kinds of numbers of Jews accepting the Gospel message.
From what I have seen die hard Law keeping religious Jews will not welcome you trying to mix the Torah with the new testament.
"Counter Missionary" they will cry mustering all the opposition they have. "Deception" the will cry. If anything will persuade men it is Christians LIVING Christ, manifesting this indwelling One. Some Jews will see God became a man (Isaiah 9:6) and that this blessing is "unto us." Some will not see until He comes on the clouds in power at the darkest point of the great tribulation.

The ROOTS of the Christian faith is Christ in you the hope of glory.
The ROOTS of the Church is the living One as the anointing teaching us to abide IN HIM.

As for you, that which you heard from the beginning, let it abide in you. If that which you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. (1 John 2:24)

And as for you, the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone teach you; but as His anointing teaches you concerning all things and is true and is not a lie, and even as it has taught you, abide in Him. (v.27)


The more you proclain "Christians KEEP THE TORAH" the more I will proclaim "Christians ABIDE in Him."
. . . , Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22)
And now law of the Old Testament could do what Jesus does - Give the Divine life of God INTO man.

Is then the law against the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given which was able to give life, righteousness would have indeed been of law. (Gal. 3:21)

Now isn't that a strange verse Soyeng? No law was able to give life. Therefore righteousness that God demands could not be by TOrah keeping. But the Son of God died and rose and became a life giving Spirit in order to GIVE LIFE.

So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul”; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45)

Now do not grumble. Paul did say the law was not against the promises of God. Right?
Is then the law against the promises of God? Absolutely not! (3:2a)

But it is the Spirit that gives life. The Spirit GIVES the divine Person into our being that we may live in the new covenant.

[God]
Who has also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant, ministers not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor. 3:6)

and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers how to correctly obey the Torah by word and by example. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in the Gospel of Christ in regard to what he accomplished through his ministry and through the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20).
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor. 3:6)

We need to love Him. We need often to tell Him that we love Him.
We need in the heat of temptation to tell Him
- "Lord Jesus, I just love You. Lord I want to sin. But Lord Jesus I LOVE You. I LOVE You Lord."

The best way to follow the Lord is to LOVE the Lord.
You grit your teeth to follow the Torah. The dead letter kills. Even the dead letter of the New Testament kills without touching in love the living Person of the indwelling Christ. He is the grace.

To love Him is to unleash something like "Power Steering" within. We apply ourselves to align with Him and POWER, divine POWER of life enables us to walk as He walks.

If you continue to exalt the Torah over the Son of God Who is now the life giving Spirit you will cool down brothers and sisters love to the Lord. You may put an attitude within them "I can do it. I can obey the Torah. I, ME, MYSELF, I can be a good Torah Keeper."

How about a real new testament minister bringing believers back again and again to realize that Jesus Christ is living in them.

Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved? But I hope that you will know that we are not disapproved. (2 Cor. 13:5,6)

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. (Phil. 1:21)


He did not say here "For me to live is to keep the Torah." But him to live is Christ. His living is Christ living again.
He lives Christ. Christ lives in him. Christ is his life. It is no longer he that lives but Christ the lives within.

He does not nullify the grace of God.

I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness is through law, then Christ has died for nothing. (Gal. 2:20,21)


In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying what He has commanded, so if Jesus had done that, then Orthodox Jews who have rejected him as being the Messiah for that reason would be correctly acting in accordance with what God has instructed them to do.

I wager that if you sought more to emphasize the living Christ is IN us to be all that we need, your ministry will be more blessed and more effective. Me too. If you instead try to exalt the Torah and Torah keeping above Jesus the indwelling Lord to the reborn, the more you will have to twist and contort the New Testament. Orthodox Jews will see right through it and charge you with missionary work in a deceptive guise.

But even an improper presentation of the Gospel may by the Lord's mercy bring some to Christ.
Some Judaizers enviously competing with Paul did nonetheless make him happy that at least Christ was being announced.


Philippians 1:15-18 -
Some preach Christ even because of envy and strife, and some also because of good will,
These out of love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel.
But the others announce Christ out of selfish ambition, not purely, thinking to raise up affliction in my bonds.

What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truthfulness, Christ is announced; and in this I rejoice; yes, and I will rejoice;
 
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BABerean2

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I accept Galatians 4:24 and I interpret it in a way that is in accordance with Galatians 4:25-5:1 and the rest of the Bible while you interpret it in a way that is contrary to Galatians 4:25-5:1 as well as other parts of the Bible. You can't explain how your interpretation of Galatian 4:24 fits with Galatians 4:24-5:1, so you refuse to do that and offer noting but bluster in lieu of doing that.

My interpretation of Galatians 4:24 fits perfectly with what Paul said below when he spoke of the Old Covenant written on stones in the past tense.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

It also fits perfectly with what Paul said in Galatians 3:16-29 when he revealed the temporary nature of the Old Covenant, by saying it was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "till" the seed (Christ ) could come to whom the promise was made.



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sparow

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A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming?


The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29.


Does your view of the Millennium agree with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.


Does your view agree with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.


Does your view agree with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing? The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20.


Does your view agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage? There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19.


Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness?


Does your view agree with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time? Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time.


Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth.

===============================================================================

Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order )


Christ returns one time in the future. However, there are several different visions of His return shown from different perspectives in the Book of Revelation.



Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.


He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.


The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.


The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.


He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?


He comes on a horse in chapter 19.


Chapter 20?
Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1?
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Are there wicked angels in the pit in Rev. 9:11? If the beast "ascends" from the pit in Rev. chapter 11, where was the beast before that time?
Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness?
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.


The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.

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At the beginning of the Millennium those of the first resurrection have eternal life, the rest are dead for a thousand years, no funerals in between, then the second death, still no funerals and no regrets.


2 Peter 2:4, Pits of darkness. Is this Peters time or prophesy?

Jude 1:6, Angel did not stay where they were put.

Rev 9:1-2, The main point is the fifth seal is opened.

Rev 9:11, Abaddon is also called Satan; keys to the bottomless pit, given to the wicked, is a simile of the keys to the Kingdom of God, given to the called and chosen.

Rev 9:14, River Euphrates equals people.

John 5:24, ?

John 5:28-29, There a symbolic difference between bottomless pit and grave.

Matt 25:31-46, brethren.

Rev 11:18, Rev 12

I probably read a different meaning into these scriptures than you do; beginning with different premises.
 
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BABerean2

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At the beginning of the Millennium those of the first resurrection have eternal life, the rest are dead for a thousand years, no funerals in between, then the second death, still no funerals and no regrets.


2 Peter 2:4, Pits of darkness. Is this Peters time or prophesy?

Jude 1:6, Angel did not stay where they were put.

Rev 9:1-2, The main point is the fifth seal is opened.

Rev 9:11, Abaddon is also called Satan; keys to the bottomless pit, given to the wicked, is a simile of the keys to the Kingdom of God, given to the called and chosen.

Rev 9:14, River Euphrates equals people.

John 5:24, ?

John 5:28-29, There a symbolic difference between bottomless pit and grave.

Matt 25:31-46, brethren.

Rev 11:18, Rev 12

I probably read a different meaning into these scriptures than you do; beginning with different premises.

You ignored the chains in the top two passages.

You completely ignored the angel coming down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit in Rev. 9:1-2.

There is no kingdom of God reference in Rev. 9:11.


John 5:24 If you were dead and then became alive, what would most people call that process?

(CSB) “Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

(ESV) Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

(ESV+) Truly, truly, I say to you, R18whoever hears my word and R19believes him who sent me has eternal life. He R20does not come into judgment, but R21has passed from death to life.

(Geneva) Verely, verely I say vnto you, he that heareth my worde, and beleeueth him that sent me, hath euerlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but hath passed from death vnto life.

(GW) I can guarantee this truth: Those who listen to what I say and believe in the one who sent me will have eternal life. They won't be judged because they have already passed from death to life.

(HCSB) "I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

(KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

(KJV+) Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 (G3754) He that hearethG191 myG3450 word,G3056 andG2532 believethG4100 on him that sentG3992 me,G3165 hathG2192 everlastingG166 life,G2222 andG2532 shall notG3756 comeG2064 intoG1519 condemnation;G2920 butG235 is passedG3327 fromG1537 deathG2288 untoG1519 life.G2222

(NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

(NLT) “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

(YLT) 'Verily, verily, I say to you—He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.



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sparow

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You ignored the chains in the top two passages.

You completely ignored the angel coming down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit in Rev. 9:1-2.

There is no kingdom of God reference in Rev. 9:11.


John 5:24 If you were dead and then became alive, what would most people call that process?

(CSB) “Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

(ESV) Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

(ESV+) Truly, truly, I say to you, R18whoever hears my word and R19believes him who sent me has eternal life. He R20does not come into judgment, but R21has passed from death to life.

(Geneva) Verely, verely I say vnto you, he that heareth my worde, and beleeueth him that sent me, hath euerlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but hath passed from death vnto life.

(GW) I can guarantee this truth: Those who listen to what I say and believe in the one who sent me will have eternal life. They won't be judged because they have already passed from death to life.

(HCSB) "I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

(KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

(KJV+) Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 (G3754) He that hearethG191 myG3450 word,G3056 andG2532 believethG4100 on him that sentG3992 me,G3165 hathG2192 everlastingG166 life,G2222 andG2532 shall notG3756 comeG2064 intoG1519 condemnation;G2920 butG235 is passedG3327 fromG1537 deathG2288 untoG1519 life.G2222

(NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

(NLT) “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

(YLT) 'Verily, verily, I say to you—He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.



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I am mystified as to what the point is you are trying to make.

2 Peter 2:4. Do we know what an angel is or what kind of prison an angel could be held in. Pits of darkness seems to be a metaphor for Graves. Peter claims that the angels were tartarized (made into a solid form) in order to be put in pits, obviously no literal.

Jude 1:6, And angels that kept not their own Principality, but left their proper habitation, he hath kept in everlasting bonds under darkness unto judgement of the great day.

To be born into human bodies and then to graves, maybe the process.

Rev 9:11, Bottomless pit is an irrational concept.

Rev 9:1,2, Seems strange, Satan is given the key, and opens the pit; what comes out is harmful to Satan's followers.
Some translations have, "having the keys to the bottomless pit", and that confused me.

IF I were dead and became a live in the same body, I would call that a revival, if I became alive in a different body, such as born again, I would call that a resurrection.

John 5:24, Who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgement, but has passed out of death into life.

Could we have eternal life now, some teach that we do, or do we have the promise of eternal life; does eternal life mean a better not human body in the future?

Who heareth his word. What does that mean? Many of the lost will have heard him at the time; and what does believe the Father mean, keep the OT commandments perhaps.
 
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BABerean2

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I am mystified as to what the point is you are trying to make.

2 Peter 2:4. Do we know what an angel is or what kind of prison an angel could be held in. Pits of darkness seems to be a metaphor for Graves. Peter claims that the angels were tartarized (made into a solid form) in order to be put in pits, obviously no literal.

Jude 1:6, And angels that kept not their own Principality, but left their proper habitation, he hath kept in everlasting bonds under darkness unto judgement of the great day.

To be born into human bodies and then to graves, maybe the process.

Rev 9:11, Bottomless pit is an irrational concept.

Rev 9:1,2, Seems strange, Satan is given the key, and opens the pit; what comes out is harmful to Satan's followers.
Some translations have, "having the keys to the bottomless pit", and that confused me.

IF I were dead and became a live in the same body, I would call that a revival, if I became alive in a different body, such as born again, I would call that a resurrection.

John 5:24, Who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgement, but has passed out of death into life.

Could we have eternal life now, some teach that we do, or do we have the promise of eternal life; does eternal life mean a better not human body in the future?

Who heareth his word. What does that mean? Many of the lost will have heard him at the time; and what does believe the Father mean, keep the OT commandments perhaps.

You can revive a person who is unconscious. You cannot revive a dead person. A person who is dead must be resurrected from the dead, in the same way Lazarus was resurrected from the dead. John 5:24 is speaking of a spiritual resurrection from the dead, when we are "born again" of the Spirit of God as found in Eph. 1:12-13.

Rev. 9:1-2 does not say the angel that comes down from heaven with the key to unlock the pit is Satan.

The word "grave" is not in 2 Pet. 2:4, or Jude 1:6.

The ultimate bottomless pit is a black hole in outer space. A black hole is not an irrational concept to modern astronomers.


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sparow

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You can revive a person who is unconscious. You cannot revive a dead person. A person who is dead must be resurrected from the dead, in the same way Lazarus was resurrected from the dead. John 5:24 is speaking of a spiritual resurrection from the dead, when we are "born again" of the Spirit of God as found in Eph. 1:12-13.

Rev. 9:1-2 does not say the angel that comes down from heaven with the key to unlock the pit is Satan.

The word "grave" is not in 2 Pet. 2:4, or Jude 1:6.

The ultimate bottomless pit is a black hole in outer space. A black hole is not an irrational concept to modern astronomers.


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Biblically a person or animal that stops breathing is dead. Out side of religious jargon there is little difference between revive and resurrect, to resurrect uses new materials.

John 11:4, Jesus said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the son of God be glorified by it.

This was not a normal death, but undoubtedly he had stopped breathing. He was in the tomb for four days, smelled bad. But when he came out he did not leave his carcass behind.

Spiritual is a word I like to stay away from, it is too Latinish and Romanish. John doesn't know what form he will take after the resurrection; neither do I.

I don't see much use arguing semantics; a black hole, or secret hole or maybe lightless hole; for it to be called a hole it would need to be a hole in something, like a hole in space, assuming space is not a hole itself, there cannot be a hole in a hole.

The original black hole theory was a place where the gravity was so great light could not escape from it, invisible. Today what is called a black hole emits light, but not visible light; we can see them when telescopes/computers translate invisible light into visible light; so we have photos of black holes, but still a lot of wonky theories; my telephone just told me a Catholic priest pioneered the Big bang theory.
 
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BABerean2

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The original black hole theory was a place where the gravity was so great light could not escape from it, invisible. Today what is called a black hole emits light, but not visible light; we can see them when telescopes/computers translate invisible light into visible light; so we have photos of black holes, but still a lot of wonky theories; my telephone just told me a Catholic priest pioneered the Big bang theory.

No. A black hole does not emit light, because not even light can escape the gravity of a black hole.

However, a star close to a black hole can have its gases pulled into the black hole like a giant vacuum cleaner. As these gases spiral toward the black hole like the water in a sink swirling around the sink drain, these gases are accelerated to high velocity right before they enter the black hole and emit light which we can see here on earth.

At one time I taught Astronomy as one of the topics of my science class, and I was also a member of the local Astronomy club.


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Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God isn't making a covenant with the world, He is only making the covenant with the House of Israel/the Twelve Tribes. If the world does not change citizenship to become part of Israel, they will not be given the Holy Spirit. Also when Christ returns, he's not coming to save the world, He is returning to save Israel--and Israel only.

Jeremiah 16:14-15 “Therefore behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “that it shall no more be said, ‘The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ but, ‘The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north and from all the lands where He had driven them.’ For I will bring them back into their land which I gave to their fathers.'

Matthew 24:22; Ezekiel 37:16-24

The Exodus and End Times are book ends. The entire Bible is Israel-centric; it only ever has to do with Israel and nations that come in contact with Israel. But just like during the Exodus, a great mixed multitude came out with Israel.

How does this set with people who are against the Hebrew Roots movements, or those from the past who accused Christians of Judaizing and persecuted them for it? If you're not Israel, you won't be rescued. You don't have to be blood Israel anymore, but how does one know your citizenship, except by your culture and behavior? You can't continue in man-made traditions and the culture of the world if you're an Israelite by birth or adoption. If the world doesn't recognize you as an Israelite, a Spiritual Jew, or a "Judaizer", as some mock, then it's unlikely God does as well.

Israel is a means to an end, not the end in itself. All the families of earth shall be blessed through Abraham's legacy: Christ. The mistake is similar to thinking one is saved by the cross instead of the one whose death gives life.

God's desire and love is for humanity (Adam). Abraham, Isreal, the customs and ways, the scriptures, the doctrines are all of one piece: a means to God. The moment we make any of those means essential to God's will, we begin to turn away from End/God (telos) into idolatry. God (Trinity) is one. There are no competitors in God's economy. The only true remedy is judgment and death to the self that turns away. Jesus did that and enables us to do the same. In my opinion, everyone will go through death to resurrection. The only difference about followers is they willingly do it now. Now is the day of salvation, always.
 
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sparow

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No. A black hole does not emit light, because not even light can escape the gravity of a black hole.

However, a star close to a black hole can have its gases pulled into the black hole like a giant vacuum cleaner. As these gases spiral toward the black hole like the water in a sink swirling around the sink drain, these gases are accelerated to high velocity right before they enter the black hole and emit light which we can see here on earth.

At one time I taught Astronomy as one of the topics of my science class, and I was also a member of the local Astronomy club.


.

There are hypothesises, theories, facts and stories. Science needed a theoretical black hole to explain it's observations, so the black hole theory was invented. Since then objects is space have been photographed and the black hole theory has been appended to them. NASA has photographed phenomena the centre of the milky way, and labelled it Black Hole; I imagine the old theories will be superseded or evolved over time.

Back to the topic, Is the Covenant only for Israel, and not the world. It seems to be a matter of context; in the beginning Israel was the descendants of Jacob who overcame, at the end Israel are those who have successfully completed the covenant or contract. The covenants were made with Israel, as a light for the rest of the world.
 
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BABerean2

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There are hypothesises, theories, facts and stories. Science needed a theoretical black hole to explain it's observations, so the black hole theory was invented. Since then objects is space have been photographed and the black hole theory has been appended to them. NASA has photographed phenomena the centre of the milky way, and labelled it Black Hole; I imagine the old theories will be superseded or evolved over time.

Back to the topic, Is the Covenant only for Israel, and not the world. It seems to be a matter of context; in the beginning Israel was the descendants of Jacob who overcame, at the end Israel are those who have successfully completed the covenant or contract. The covenants were made with Israel, as a light for the rest of the world.

Black holes were mathematically predicted long before the gases being sucked off the star Cygnus X1 were detected. Why? Astronomers had already confirmed the fact that light is curved by massive objects like stars.


The King of Israel is found below.

Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.


I am not a subject of Charles III of the British Commonwealth, who is said to be the head of the Church of England.

I am a subject of King Jesus, because I have been covered by His blood. When God sees me, He sees the King of Israel's blood.

The King of Israel is the Head of the Church. He is the Head, and we are His Body. The two cannot be separated.


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sparow

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Black holes were mathematically predicted long before the gases being sucked off the star Cygnus X1 were detected. Why? Astronomers had already confirmed the fact that light is curved by massive objects like stars.


The King of Israel is found below.

Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.


I am not a subject of Charles III of the British Commonwealth, who is said to be the head of the Church of England.

I am a subject of King Jesus, because I have been covered by His blood. When God sees me, He sees the King of Israel's blood.

The King of Israel is the Head of the Church. He is the Head, and we are His Body. The two cannot be separated.


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What you say is a truism, but not all who claim to be his body are; some DO lawlessness, others DO NOT wear the garments provided.
 
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