The Church and Israel

[Guojing]

Galatians 1 6-8

6I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is not even a gospel. Evidently, some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.

8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse!

Given the audience that Peter James and John agreed to let Paul go to in Galatians 2:9, who do you think consist of the "you" in this passage?

Is it the circumcised or the uncircumcised?

 

[DaveM]

Given the audience that Peter James and John agreed to let Paul go to in Galatians 2:9, who do you think consist of the "you" in this passage?

Is it the circumcised or the uncircumcised?

given that God wrote the bible with his Holly spirit through man, to give all men his word I think he was speaking to everyone who reads it.

 

[Ligurian]

[...]
That's not actually what it says, though... (you added some stuff of your own, and then gave the Pharisees' answer)... because the Son's answer is the real deal.

Matthew 21:44-45 says the chief priests and Pharisees ARE the husbandmen, and implies that they will be broken to powder... Daniel 2:34.

It gets worse. Because Matthew 22:7 says the King "sent forth His armies, and destroyed those murderers and burned up their city."

And worse. Matthew 23:34 and some of them ye shall kill and crucify, and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: Acts 26:10-11
[...]

And they were. The Stone came and crushed them, exactly as prophesied. We're not still waiting for this to take place.



You do realize Jesus is the Stone of Matthew 21:40-45, right?

The stone hasn't crushed the ten toes of Daniel... or crushed the Pharisees yet.

Zechariah 4:7-9 Who are you great mountain before [the] face of Zerubbabel to set up? And I will bring forth the stone of the inheritance, of His favor equaling My favor.[8] And came to pass [the] word of [the] Lord to me, saying,[9] The hands of Zerubabbel laid the foundation of this house and his hands shall complete it, and you shall recognize that [the] Lord almighty has sent me to you.ABP ... (His inheritance, Matthew 21:37-39)

John 1:16-17 And of His fulness have all we received, and favor upon favor.[17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.KJV

Psalms 118:22-26 The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner.[23] This has been done of the Lord and it is wonderful in our eyes.LXX

Isaiah 8:13-16 Sanctify ye the Lord Himself and He shall be thy fear.[14] And if thou shalt trust in Him, He shall be to thee for a sanctuary: and ye shall not come against Him as against a stumbling-stone, neither as against the falling of a rock. But the houses of Jacob are in a snare and the dwellers in Jerusalem in a pit.[15] Therefore many among them shall be weak and fall and be crushed, and they shall draw nigh and men shall be taken securely.[16] Then shall those who seal themselves that they may not learn the Law be made manifest.LXX

Matthew 21:42-46 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?[43] Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.[45] And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they perceived that He spake of them.KJV ... ([43] Matthew 9:35-38, Matthew 10:5-7)

 

[Guojing]

given that God wrote the bible with his Holly spirit through man, to give all men his word I think he was speaking to everyone who reads it.

If that is the case, why do you think Paul specifically wanted us to rightly divide the word of truth?

You do that too, that is why you don’t sacrifice animals now, nor do you undergo physical circumcision. You are clearly aware that genesis 17:14 is not written to you.

 

[Ligurian]

given that God wrote the bible with his Holly spirit

Are all of these \/ ways of speaking done via the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

Is knowledge a Holy-Spirit-only gift? Is it different than the wisdom which the Greeks seek?

Is doctrine entirely-Holy-Spirit-driven? If so, then why does Jesus say to beware the doctrine of the Pharisees? Why were the multitudes astonished at the doctrine of Jesus which wasn't like that of the scribes at the end of the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7:28-29?

Man made the canon, and bible canon changed back and forth.
So, which books are "inspired"... and which books are not "inspired"... is subject to change?

 

[Ligurian]

Galatians 1 6-8 [...]
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse!

Galatians 1:9 εἴ τις ὑμᾶς εὐαγγελίζεται παρ’ ὃ παρελάβετε, ἀνάθεμα ἔστω.TR

If you turn away from Paul, (2 Timothy 1:15) did you actually receive that gospel? And would you care whether or not you were excommunicated by him?

 

[DaveM]

If that is the case, why do you think Paul specifically wanted us to rightly divide the word of truth?

You do that too, that is why you don’t sacrifice animals now, nor do you undergo physical circumcision. You are clearly aware that genesis 17:14 is not written to you.

I appreciate your response, I really do not understand how you divide the word of God as you do. It seems that way you can leave out what you do not want and accept what you do. I say that respectfully because I know a lot of people teach to look at the bible like that. But the Bible is for everyone. Yes, certain parts of the bible have been fulfilled and no longer apply directly to us, but that's not to say there is not something we can not learn from those parts of the bible.

For instance, you bring up animal sacrifices, a great point..... but we have to realize that just because it has been fulfilled and is no longer required. The word of God about animal sacrifice is for everyone to see that blood is required for the atonement of sin, and this all points to Jesus. So yes Genesis was written to anyone and everyone that is looking to God.

So yes the bible is written TO all believers FOR all believers.

If that is the case, why do you think Paul specifically wanted us to rightly divide the word of truth?

I think the most common word has handled the word, only a few translations use to divide the word, but never the less the original language says cut straight the word. But I am sure you know all that already

 

[Ligurian]

Matthew 4:12-17 [17] From that time Jesus began to preach and to say: Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
Matthew 9:8-13 [13] But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Hosea 6:6)
Matthew 11:39-41 [41] The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Matthew 21:28-31 [32] For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Revelation 3:1-3 [3] Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent.
Revelation 9:20-21 [21] Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me and I was chastened. I as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord my God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to me, for because My words are in him I will surely remember him. Therefore I made haste to help him, I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.LXX

Paul in Rom 5:11 is speaking about RECONCILATION as the Gentiles were the ONES that had to be RECONCILED as Israel to be BAPTIZED for their FORGIVENESS of Sins to be KINGS and PRIESTS in the MILLNELLIAL KINGDOM .[...]
ATONEMENT ended in Heb 9:15 as Christ PAID for all sins that were committed under the FIRST TESTAMENT means the OLD COVENANT .

Reconciled means "to reestablish a close relationship between"... that doesn't apply to the gentiles, since they had no relationship with the God of Sion. Sins committed under the First Covenant doesn't apply to people who were never under the Law, either.

The Old Covenant

Matthew 19:3-8 The Pharisees also came unto Him, tempting Him and saying unto Him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
[4] And He answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that He which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,[5] And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?[6] Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
[7] They say unto Him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
[8] He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Where does the Old Testament say that Moses did this? Doesn't it seem like God gave the Commandments and Moses passed them on? But what it seems like is not what happened, is it. So how many OTHER places did Moses allow things that are called Commandments? At least one more place:

Isaiah 66:1-4 Thus says [the] Lord, The Heaven [is] My throne, and the earth a footstool for My feed. What kind of a house shall you build to Me? and what kind of place for My rest?[2] For all these [things] I made by My hand, and all these are Mine, says [the] Lord. And upon whom shall I look upon, but only upon the humble and unassuming, and [the] one trembling at My words?
[3] But the lawless one, the one sacrificing a calf to Me [is] as the one striking a man; and the one sacrificing of [the] flock [is] as one killing a dog; and the one offering fine flour [is] as [the one offering] [the] blood of a pig; the one offering frankincense for a memorial [is] as blasphemous. And they chose their ways, and their abominations which their soul wanted.[4] I will choose their mockeries and I will recompense their sins against them, for I called them and they did not hearken to Me, I spoke and they heard not, and they acted wickedly before Me and chose that which I did not want.LXX

Jeremiah 7:20-23 Therefore thus saith the Lord, Behold, My anger and wrath shall be poured out upon this place and upon the men, and upon the cattle and upon every tree of their field, and upon the fruits of the land, and it shall burn and not be quenched.[21] Thus saith the Lord, Gather your whole-burnt-offerings with your meat-offerings, and eat flesh.[22] For I spoke not to your fathers, and commanded them not in the day wherein I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, concerning whole-burnt-offerings and sacrifice:[23] but I commanded them this thing, saying, Hear ye My voice and I will be to you a God, and ye shall be to Me a people, and walk ye in all My ways which I shall command you, that it may be well with you.

The lawless one sacrificing--it's the sin-offering--THEY chose that. The house that God talks about is the Temple where they did all sacrifices... THEY chose to make that, too. If David wasn't allowed to build the temple because he made war, Solomon wouldn't have been allowed to build it... practically the first thing King Solomon did was to try to murder someone. And he not only built with dressed stones but made steps... both of which Exodus 20 plainly tells them not to do. But they thought they could get around it by having Hiram dress the stones, and making linen breeches so they could walk up the steps.
In fact, God says make Him an altar of earth... "but if YOU WILL make an altar of stone"... That means THEIR WILL, not God's will, is what they openly chose... right from the beginning. And the Levites tore down the earth altar as though that was the bad thing. But getting all their tithes from all the earth altars wouldn't have worked... so they made it seem (to the casual reader) like the temple was God's plan.
When in fact, the House that would be built for the Father is not the one built by Solomon, David's son, but by the Root and Offspring of David, saying Upon this rock I will build My church. (And no, the rock isn't Peter ...the rock is actually the Father's revelation to Peter... the surname is only a memorial, not the substance.)

I'm done with explaining this. If y'all want to choose your own ways, far be it from me to stand in your way and keep trying to prevent what is going to happen to all heathens who think God can be reached through human sacrifice... or through animals killed and offered back... to the God who created these poor innocent creatures.

 

[Ligurian]

If that is the case, why do you think Paul specifically wanted us to rightly divide the word of truth?

You do that too, that is why you don’t sacrifice animals now, nor do you undergo physical circumcision. You are clearly aware that genesis 17:14 is not written to you.

Let me ask you, if Genesis 17:9-14 is not for gentiles, then how is it possible for gentiles to enter the promised land?

The uncircumcised will not be welcomed in Jerusalem.

Isaiah 52:1-3 Awake, awake, Sion; put on thy strength, O Sion; and o thou put on thy glory, Jerusalem the holy city: there shall no more pass through thee the uncircumcised and unclean.[2] Shake off the dust and arise; sit down, Jerusalem: put off the band of thy neck, captive daughter of Sion.[3] For thus saith the Lord, Ye have been sold for nought; and ye shall not be ransomed with silver.

Ezekiel 44:9 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, No alien uncircumcised in heart or uncircumcised in flesh shall enter into My sanctuary, of all the children of strangers that are in the midst of the house of Israel.

Nor allowed the Passover:

Exodus 12:43-49 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, This is the law of the passover: no stranger shall eat of it.[44] And every slave or servant bought with money—him thou shalt circumcise, and then shall he eat of it.[45] A sojourner or hireling shall not eat of it.[46] In one house shall it be eaten, and ye shall not carry of the flesh out from the house; and a bone of it ye shall not break.[47] All the congregation of the children of Israel shall keep it. [48] And if any proselyte shall come to you to keep the passover to the Lord, thou shalt circumcise every male of him and then shall he approach to sacrifice it, and he shall be even as the original inhabitant of the land, no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.[49] There shall be one law to the native and to the proselyte coming among you.

Jesus is the Passover Lamb of God, and the Bread of Heaven. The hyssop in John at the Passover Sacrifice makes Exodus 12:21-27 the last scripture to be fulfilled.

John 19:28-30 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.[29] Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop and put it to His mouth.[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished: and He bowed His head, and gave up the Spirit.

They're unprotected.

Exodus 12:23 And the Lord shall pass by to smite the Egyptians, and shall see the blood upon the lintel and upon both the door-posts, and the Lord shall pass by the door, and shall not suffer the destroyer to enter into your houses to smite you.

 

[Guojing]

I appreciate your response, I really do not understand how you divide the word of God as you do. It seems that way you can leave out what you do not want and accept what you do. I say that respectfully because I know a lot of people teach to look at the bible like that. But the Bible is for everyone. Yes, certain parts of the bible have been fulfilled and no longer apply directly to us, but that's not to say there is not something we can not learn from those parts of the bible.

So you do agree that, even though Genesis 17:14 is written in the Bible, which you are saying is to all believers and for all believers, you do not obey Genesis 17:14 for a certain reason or reasons?

That was all I was trying to establish with you.

Can you understand, if you happen to meet a Christian who still believes animal sacrifices are for today, he will also think the same way about you, as you are thinking towards my view, that "you can leave out what you do not want and accept what you do."?

Likewise, he will also claim that he does not understand how "you divide the word of God as you do"?

 

[DaveM]

Given the audience that Peter James and John agreed to let Paul go to in Galatians 2:9, who do you think consist of the "you" in this passage?

Is it the circumcised or the uncircumcised?

Hello Goujing
We are talking about the gospel, the one, and only Gospel, the one that offers salvation to ALL people, so who do you think Paul is a warning, if not EVERYONE? You are trying to complicate a very simple and direct warning from Paul.

Do you think that there is another gospel?? Gospel means good news, so there is not better news then eternal life.

thanks

 

[Guojing]

Hello Goujing
We are talking about the gospel, the one, and only Gospel, the one that offers salvation to ALL people, so who do you think Paul is a warning, if not EVERYONE? You are trying to complicate a very simple and direct warning from Paul.

Do you think that there is another gospel?? Gospel means good news, so there is not better news then eternal life.

thanks

 

[DaveM]

at a total loss for words, to come across anyone claiming to be a Christian who thinks that there is more than one gospel. prayers to you

 

[Guojing]

at a total loss for words, to come across anyone claiming to be a Christian who thinks that there is more than one gospel. prayers to you

I have given you plenty of scripture references in that picture, for you to check them out. No need for you to be in a loss for words.

Learn to rightly divide the word of truth, as Paul instructed, and things will become clearer for you.

 

[DaveM]

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

They are the same Gospel, and anyone means anyone, who preaches a different gospel will be accursed, do you think Paul was saying Jesus is accursed, of course, you don't think that, but that is what you are saying.

Do you not consider yourself a Christian that Paul was speaking to, yet you are preaching another gospel?

God bless you, my prayers go to you

 

[Guojing]

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

They are the same Gospel, and anyone means anyone, who preaches a different gospel will be accursed, do you think Paul was saying Jesus is accursed, of course, you don't think that, but that is what you are saying.

Do you not consider yourself a Christian that Paul was speaking to, yet you are preaching another gospel?

God bless you, my prayers go to you

I agree with you, there is only one gospel that saves today.

The gospel of the kingdom does not save today, but that does not mean that good news did not exist for Israel in the past.

As I said, learn to rightly divide the word of truth, as Paul instructed, and things will become clearer for you.

 

[DaveM]

The gospel of the kingdom does not save today

no one goes into the kingdom with out being saved

 

[Guojing]

no one goes into the kingdom with out being saved

The Body of Christ was not promised a kingdom in the first place, so your point is irrelevant.

 

[DaveM]

The Body of Christ was not promised a kingdom in the first place, so your point is irrelevant.

I kindly and respectfully disagree. You are deceived my friend, I doubt any scripture will change your mind or thoughts, so have a good day. And always praises our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Matthew 21:43
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

Luke 16-16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

Ephesians 5:5
For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

1 Corinthians 15:50
I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

 

[Dan Perez]

The stone hasn't crushed the ten toes of Daniel... or crushed the Pharisees yet.

Zechariah 4:7-9 Who are you great mountain before [the] face of Zerubbabel to set up? And I will bring forth the stone of the inheritance, of His favor equaling My favor.[8] And came to pass [the] word of [the] Lord to me, saying,[9] The hands of Zerubabbel laid the foundation of this house and his hands shall complete it, and you shall recognize that [the] Lord almighty has sent me to you.ABP ... (His inheritance, Matthew 21:37-39)

John 1:16-17 And of His fulness have all we received, and favor upon favor.[17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.KJV

Psalms 118:22-26 The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner.[23] This has been done of the Lord and it is wonderful in our eyes.LXX

Isaiah 8:13-16 Sanctify ye the Lord Himself and He shall be thy fear.[14] And if thou shalt trust in Him, He shall be to thee for a sanctuary: and ye shall not come against Him as against a stumbling-stone, neither as against the falling of a rock. But the houses of Jacob are in a snare and the dwellers in Jerusalem in a pit.[15] Therefore many among them shall be weak and fall and be crushed, and they shall draw nigh and men shall be taken securely.[16] Then shall those who seal themselves that they may not learn the Law be made manifest.LXX

Matthew 21:42-46 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?[43] Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.[45] And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they perceived that He spake of them.KJV ... ([43] Matthew 9:35-38, Matthew 10:5-7)

And I believe all what you wrote is from the bible .

But many FAIL to see what is the CONTEXT of Matt 21:43 is pointing too !!

The Kingdom is taken away from WHOM ?

And who is it given to ?

It is taken away from the CHIEF PRIEST and from the PHARISEES and then given to a Nation bringing forth the fruit thereof .

It is to be given to the LITTLE FLOCK as Luke 12:32 and that means Peter and the 12 apostles .

NOT to the B O C ,

dan p