The Atheist could be wrong for many good reasons

[Archaeopteryx]

Everyone of you comes on a Christian forum site. (Christian) Why?

This question has already been answered.

To argue with Christians about our faith in God. What do you have to bring here?

At the moment, a lot more than you do.

No matter what we say or believe you atheist will say we are wrong and continue to argue with us.

So far you haven't presented anything for us to consider.

Jesus ways are right and yours are wrong. Its simple and truth.

Care to support this claim?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

They are bringing evil to this forum site.

Evil? In what way? Is it "evil" to ask you to justify your claims?

From their avatars to things and pictures posted on their pages.

What's wrong with my avatar? It's Data!

I don't want to see it!

If using Windows, there is a red box in the top right corner that will make it all disappear. If using OS X, there is a red circle in the top left corner that will make it all disappear.

I have a right to be here as I am a Christian and this is supposed to be a Christian forum site. Other sites I have been on don't allow this kind of behavior to go on.

For the fourth or fifth time, there is a Christian only section. Feel free to go there.

 

[Freodin]

I believe I have a good reason to hold out a hope for the divinity of Jesus Christ. Here it is:

If you study statistics you learn about hypothesis testing (depending on the instructor I suppose). So, you could for example say you think Coca Cola short changes it customers in those 20 oz bottles. So you could develop a null hypothesis that Coca Cola claims the average amount of coca cola in the coke bottles should be 20 oz. However I claim Coca Cola is wrong and the average amount of Coke in a 20 oz coke bottle is less than 20 oz, could even be 19 ounces. So here is the notation:

H0: u = 20 oz

HA: u < 20 oz

So you collect a sample of coke bottles hopefully randomly which is important and you average the ounces of coke cola and find that the bottles of coke cola actually have 19 ounces of coke on average. Next you build a test statistic which looks like something

(u-u hat)/nsigma (I forget this part, but it does look like something (20-19)n/(n-1) sigma.

This test statistic should be nothing more than a value of the student t distribution, so you got to find your critical value at significance alpha .01 or .05 or even much smaller. Say we pick significance level to be .01, 1% we look at the critical value which is determined by the degrees of freedom (based on the sample size) and the chance you could be rejecting H0 when Ho is correct where you could be wrong by random chance. So you get your critical value which is a number off the t distribution and compare it to the test statistic. If the test statistic is larger than the critical value, then you say we reject HO at significance level alpha .01 for instance.

Now here is the point: You really don't know if you are right, you got the odds on your side, but you still could be wrong with a 1 % chance or your sample was bad, it wasn't picked randomly enough.

This is like the existence of God we are not made to know, it could have been a really lucky event that took place over billions of years that has brought us here by natural processes, but really you could be wrong. So why be so convinced? I believe there should be some mystery to our faith and our existence. This adds spice to the belief system.

So what are your thoughts on this?

That's quite weird, if you think about it.

What you explained in the first part of your post is reliable (as far as statistics can be reliable ) mathematics. It works - it works indeed in the way you described it. (More or less, as I understood it. I managed to successfully avoid statistics in my studies.)

So now you have presented a method, based on sampling, calculating and evaluating probabilities and deviations.
And based on that method you now want to analyze a hypothesis where there is no means of sampling or calculating, where there are no known or knowable probabilities and deviations.
And, to top it off, you then declare your pet hypothesis as "convincing"... because you like to have some "spice".

To stay within your example: you develop the hypothesis that Coca-Cola has less than 20 oz of content on avarage in their bottles. You do not take any samples, because Coke bottles are unvailable for sampling. Then you declare that you are convinced that Coca-Cola shortchanges you, because believing that adds "mystery" to your existence.


Congratulation: you just have successfully reduced Christianity to a conspiracy theory.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I believe I have a good reason to hold out a hope for the divinity of Jesus Christ. Here it is:

If you study statistics you learn about hypothesis testing (depending on the instructor I suppose). So, you could for example say you think Coca Cola short changes it customers in those 20 oz bottles. So you could develop a null hypothesis that Coca Cola claims the average amount of coca cola in the coke bottles should be 20 oz. However I claim Coca Cola is wrong and the average amount of Coke in a 20 oz coke bottle is less than 20 oz, could even be 19 ounces. So here is the notation:

H0: u = 20 oz

HA: u < 20 oz

So you collect a sample of coke bottles hopefully randomly which is important and you average the ounces of coke cola and find that the bottles of coke cola actually have 19 ounces of coke on average. Next you build a test statistic which looks like something

(u-u hat)/nsigma (I forget this part, but it does look like something (20-19)n/(n-1) sigma.

This test statistic should be nothing more than a value of the student t distribution, so you got to find your critical value at significance alpha .01 or .05 or even much smaller. Say we pick significance level to be .01, 1% we look at the critical value which is determined by the degrees of freedom (based on the sample size) and the chance you could be rejecting H0 when Ho is correct where you could be wrong by random chance. So you get your critical value which is a number off the t distribution and compare it to the test statistic. If the test statistic is larger than the critical value, then you say we reject HO at significance level alpha .01 for instance.

Now here is the point: You really don't know if you are right, you got the odds on your side, but you still could be wrong with a 1 % chance or your sample was bad, it wasn't picked randomly enough.

This is like the existence of God we are not made to know, it could have been a really lucky event that took place over billions of years that has brought us here by natural processes, but really you could be wrong. So why be so convinced? I believe there should be some mystery to our faith and our existence. This adds spice to the belief system.

So what are your thoughts on this?

My thoughts? I think you need to consider effect size. If you sample enough bottles you may find that even the smallest differences will meet the threshold for statistical significance. But if the difference is minuscule then it is arguably unimportant. Large differences would presumably be obvious to consumers, so I imagine that you'd expect only a small to medium sized effect, if there is any.

 

[DogmaHunter]

They are bringing evil to this forum site. From their avatars to things and pictures posted on their pages. I don't want to see it! I have a right to be here as I am a Christian and this is supposed to be a Christian forum site. Other sites I have been on don't allow this kind of behavior to go on.

If you only want to read posts from christians, and only wish to be replied to by christians, then perhaps you should move to the christian-only sections of this site.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

If you only want to read posts from christians, and only wish to be replied to by christians, then perhaps you should move to the christian-only sections of this site.

This advice appears to have no effect. They'd rather stay here and drink whine.

 

[SamuelTP1977]

Okay, let me try this idea:

We are not made to know if Christ came back from the dead or if there is a Heaven or a Hell. It could have happened, the It being the gospels could be true. I definitely hope so. I also feel it is possible to have a well thought out belief in God and religion.

Keep hope alive and remember Jesus loves you.

Here is another idea, maybe God has revealed himself to other people throughout history to give them hope. Perhaps causing a hallucination to help someone not want to kill themselves. Perhaps scaring the psychiatric patient enough to think "I better not kill myself, I could go to Hell."

I feel Jesus Christ is a good God who loves his creation and has their back in the afterlife I definitely hope so. Also it could have happened. Emperor Constatine thought so in 300 AD I believe.

Creation is a mystery,and one should be careful not to be convinced of these opinions one way or the other.

Hang in there,

Sam

 

[Freodin]

Okay, let me try this idea:

We are not made to know if Christ came back from the dead or if there is a Heaven or a Hell. It could have happened, the It being the gospels could be true. I definitely hope so. I also feel it is possible to have a well thought out belief in God and religion.

Keep hope alive and remember Jesus loves you.

Here is another idea, maybe God has revealed himself to other people throughout history to give them hope. Perhaps causing a hallucination to help someone not want to kill themselves. Perhaps scaring the psychiatric patient enough to think "I better not kill myself, I could go to Hell."

I feel Jesus Christ is a good God who loves his creation and has their back in the afterlife I definitely hope so. Also it could have happened. Emperor Constatine thought so in 300 AD I believe.

Creation is a mystery,and one should be careful not to be convinced of these opinions one way or the other.

Hang in there,

Sam

Well... at least marginally I could agree with you there. It could have happened. Or it could have not happened. Or something else could have happened in a totally different way. And we both hope and feel a lot of things, some similar, some different.

And maybe this and maybe that, and I feel and I hope and I believe... well, yes, whatever makes you happy.


But considering all I know and all I learned, and all the conflicting ideas I have been confronted with in regard to theology, I fail to see the "many good reasons" that an atheist could be wrong for.

Just read your post again, and try to rephrase it from the position of a non-Christian. A believer in some other religion, or a non-religious person.
Would you think that this now presented "many good reasons the Christian could be wrong for"?

 

[KCfromNC]

Okay, let me try this idea:

We are not made to know if Christ came back from the dead or if there is a Heaven or a Hell. It could have happened, the It being the gospels could be true. I definitely hope so. I also feel it is possible to have a well thought out belief in God and religion.

Keep hope alive and remember Jesus loves you.

Here is another idea, maybe God has revealed himself to other people throughout history to give them hope. Perhaps causing a hallucination to help someone not want to kill themselves. Perhaps scaring the psychiatric patient enough to think "I better not kill myself, I could go to Hell."

I feel Jesus Christ is a good God who loves his creation and has their back in the afterlife I definitely hope so. Also it could have happened. Emperor Constatine thought so in 300 AD I believe.

Creation is a mystery,and one should be careful not to be convinced of these opinions one way or the other.

Hang in there,

Sam

The interesting part to me is that after removing all the baseless speculation about what a mysterious god might or might not have done, all that's left here are statements about what it feels like and what you wish were true. That's instructive, but probably not in the way you've hoped.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

SamuelTP1977 said: ↑
Dear Fellow Posters,

I feel Christ could have come back from the dead. I know we don't know this, but we weren't there, we don't know what the people saw 2000 years ago in Palestine.

How could a human being be alive after all this time?

Easy, if you are God and Jesus........

John 19:30
When Jesus had received/got the vinegar, He said "It is finished"!
and reclining the head He gives-up the spirit.

Reve 1:18
and the living One! And I became dead and behold! I am living into the Ages of the Ages.
And I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death


........................

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

davedajobauk said: ↑
The path is straight and the gate is 'narrow'
Those that are 'lost', will one-day realize, that they are really, lost-forever

See my signature

For you, TIME, is running-out !!

More preaching.

The spirit of Christ compels us.........

Eze 2:6
And thou, Son of Man, do not be afraid of them[heathens] or their words.
Do not be afraid, though briers and thorns are all around you and you live among scorpions.
Do not be afraid of what they say or be terrified by them, though they are a rebellious people.

Matt 10:
26 Then do not fear them[heathens],--for nothing hath been covered, which shall not be uncovered,
and hidden, which shall not be made known.
27 What I am saying to you in the darkness, tell ye in the light!
and what [whispered] into the ear ye are hearing, proclaim ye on the housetops!

"CAN YA DIG IT! AMEN! ALLEHUIA!"

............

.......

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

DogmaHunter said: ↑
If you only want to read posts from christians, and only wish to be replied to by christians, then perhaps you should move to the christian-only sections of this site.

This advice appears to have no effect.
They'd rather stay here and drink whine.

Do you mean drink and whine?

Isa 29:9
Tarry and wonder, look ye, yea, look,
Be drunk and not with wine,
Stagger and not with strong drink.

Eph 5:18
and be not drunk with wine, in which is dissoluteness,
but be filled in the Spirit,......

.

 

[brinny]

The spirit of Christ compels us.........

Eze 2:6
And thou, Son of Man, do not be afraid of them[heathens] or their words.
Do not be afraid, though briers and thorns are all around you and you live among scorpions.
Do not be afraid of what they say or be terrified by them, though they are a rebellious people.

Matt 10:
26 Then do not fear them[heathens],--for nothing hath been covered, which shall not be uncovered,
and hidden, which shall not be made known.
27 What I am saying to you in the darkness, tell ye in the light!
and what [whispered] into the ear ye are hearing, proclaim ye on the housetops!

"CAN YA DIG IT! AMEN! ALLEHUIA!"

............

.......

.

brilliant piece, amigo...listening again...

there's an awesome message in there, AND some seeerious expressive sounds in there

 

[brinny]

Do you mean drink and whine?

Isa 29:9
Tarry and wonder, look ye, yea, look,
Be drunk and not with wine,
Stagger and not with strong drink.

Eph 5:18
and be not drunk with wine, in which is dissoluteness,
but be filled in the Spirit,......

.

LOL!

 

[brinny]

Easy, if you are God and Jesus........

John 19:30
When Jesus had received/got the vinegar, He said "It is finished"!
and reclining the head He gives-up the spirit.

Reve 1:18
and the living One! And I became dead and behold! I am living into the Ages of the Ages.
And I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death


........................

Amen!

 

[Davian]

Easy, if you are God and Jesus........

Easy to explain then.

How is it that a man could still alive after 2000 years?