The Assumption Of The Blessed Virgin

[Hairy Tic]

but it says "first-born" -- surely that necessitates there were other children, right?

## If the OP is consistent, and cares about the principle on which he argues, then it does, & must. Unless there is some other reason to justify taking the same word in different senses in the Gospel, & in St. Justin. But is there ? It makes no sense to say a word matters to the meaning of an argument, & then to say it does not. Sometimes monogenes = "first-born"; &, sometimes, "only-begotten".

 

[Hairy Tic]

Not to mention Christ alone can claim sinlessness.



And they wonder why we say they worship Mary?

## Yes, we do wonder. We honour her, but do not hold that she is God, or even a goddess - for we reject both ideas utterly.

Irony metre on:

As to the rest: why then - according to what the text of the NT actually says - do we have examples of sins of Christ ? He reviles the Pharisees often; but Christians are forbidden, in the NT itself, to revile. He tells others to love their enemies - but shows very little love for His.

So it is clear from the NT that He sinned. These episodes are in the text - if anyone but He had said those things, Christians would be finding fault w/ that person. Why should our moral senses be silent just because the person involved is Jesus ? What would be sin in others, is sin in Him, & must be. To say otherwise is to have double standards; it is respect of persons, which is a sin, according to the Biblical literature.

It is simply false, according to the gospels, that Jesus never sinned. Hebrews says that, but the gospels show Hebrews is wrong. It is not even clear from the NT that Jesus is truly God: the Fathers thought so, but they were wrong, obviously, for they were post-Biblical, uninspired, & Catholics. Men who can honour a dead woman who was only a vessel for giving God a body, cannot be any good as guides to doctrine about Christ. Which makes their decisions about what books (if any) belonged to the NT equally suspect.

Scripture knows of no such unBiblical anti-God myth as the Deity of Jesus. So Christians should throw it aside, if they are serious about wanting to stick to the Bible. But they won't, because the Deity of Jesus is another tradition of men they cannot bring themselves to drop. They want Protestant or else Biblical results from Catholic premises - which is to ask for the impossible.

Irony metre off.

 

[MaidenHisImage]

## You mean as in Psalm 136 ?

His love endures forever...

His love endures forever...

His love endures forever...

His love endures forever...

His love endures forever...

Amen!

That's definitely not "vain".

When Jesus said not to pray vain repetitions, in that same context He also said, for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. It reminds me of those email things... send this to ten people and your wish will come true. There were beliefs like that in that time same as now. Silly stuff that won't get answered...no real faith in God in it, but more faith in the amount of times you've said a certain recitation, faith in repetition.

Maybe a good example would be of the lady who kept asking the judge over and over to hear her complaint of injustice, and just to not hear the woman yet again, he answered her request. Then there's the parable where the man kept asking the neighbor for food.

Persistent requests with faith and heart in it. No faith in numbers.

It's a fine line I've been careful about before converting. It made no sense to me to pray Hail Mary ten times, then ten times more, and so on...it does seem like "pray this ten times and then you get special privileges from Mary and God" or something like that, but only from the outside looking in.

I've since learned, while repeating scripture and asking Mary to pray for us, repeating Our Father, and Glory Be, and the Fatima prayer...reflecting on different experiences in the life of Jesus is occurring within each decade. I've been a protestant most of my life and never have I spent so much time contemplating the works of Christ as I have since conversion. I mean, I did before and a lot, but not like this. This is different for me. It holds more depth. This is solely my experience, I realize other protestants would argue their daily life with God is different than mine was. That they spend plenty of time with God each day and thinking about Christ. I'm not saying this is better. I am saying I see nothing wrong with it and it has helped me feel closer to Christ in a way I've yet to experience. It's easy to judge from a closed door, but once you look in you can start to understand, not everyone prays the same way and yet they still are heard by God and blessed by God. If Christ is in it, if it draws people closer to Christ, how can it be from the enemy or be vain? People who say the rosary prayer every day are thinking about different works and experiences Christ had while they recite scripture. AND they're doing so with other people too all around the world. It's all set up, everyone is thinking of the luminous mysteries together, or the sorrowful, etc... Today we're focusing on the Joyful Mysteries, tomorrow the Sorrowful and the Sorrowful is always most profound for me as I think about the agony in the garden, the scourging, the crown of thorns on His precious head, carrying that Cross, and suffering also Crucifixion for all of us...with details within each part to think about and asking Him to help me have the kind of faith He has. I find that unity, that every Catholic is contemplating the same things, it's beautiful. To me, this is no different than powerful contemplation within prayer. Some people misuse it, but the Catholic Church is specific about its use.

I love the rosary. I always feel more peaceful and content, filled with more faith than I had before I started. It pulls me closer to Christ. I think that was Jesus' beautiful point about prayer.

Interesting thread.

Peace in Christ.

 

[Dorothea]

It is worship, you know it is for a vast majority of people.


vain repetition anyone?

Please, some time, break open your narrow prejudices and get a clue.

 

[narnia59]

Please, some time, break open your narrow prejudices and get a clue.

Okay, sorry, can't resist. I shamelessly stole this from a random poster on another board once....

'Some folk are just clueless. They don't have a clue. They can't get a clue...They couldn't get a clue if they smeared themselves with clue musk and did the clue mating dance in a field full of clues during clue mating season.'

 

[Dorothea]

Okay, sorry, can't resist. I shamelessly stole this from a random poster on another board once....

'Some folk are just clueless. They don't have a clue. They can't get a clue...They couldn't get a clue if they smeared themselves with clue musk and did the clue mating dance in a field full of clues during clue mating season.'

Thanks for the laugh. I needed one.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
You are correct. When the feast moved west the name was changed to the Assumption of Mary. The feast is shared by EO and RC but with similar but different beliefs. You might want to research its beginnings..

Do the EOs believe Mary was assumed into heaven?

 

[prodromos]

Do the EOs believe Mary was assumed into heaven?

After she died, yes.