Taking kids to Church

[HandmaidenOfGod]

In the UOC church I was raised in, parents would take the fussy child down to the finished basement of the church where the Liturgy was piped in through speakers. This way the parent could still hear the Liturgy while calming the child down, but the child did not feel like he/she was being "rewarded" for fussing. (I mean honestly, not much reward in going down to a room with dull beige carpeting and couches from the seventies is there?)

In my current OCA parish, the parents usually take the kids to to coat closet in the Narthex of the church. Again, the parents can still hear the Liturgy, but it's a place that isn't "appealing" for toddlers to go to.

I know some Catholic Churches have introduced "Crying Rooms" in the newer churches that are being built. It is a small glass room at the back of the sanctuary that is sound proof, and it has the service piped in through speakers. I think this is a good idea b/c the family is still a part of the service, but the small children are not distracting to the other parishoners. Perhaps this is an idea the Orthodox Churches could adopt.

Just my two cents...

In XC,

Maureen

 

[Matrona]

I really like the idea of taking a misbehaving child out of church, to an environment they like less than they do church. I think serious problems arise from these ideas:

"He's misbehaving, so I'll take him to a nursery full of toys."
"He wants to leave church, so we'll stay here and let him throw a tantrum in the middle of the homily. That'll teach him."

I once attended a church where the latter was the prevailing parenting strategy. The end result was a liturgy that looked like a poorly-run daycare with a few adults singing here and there, and a priest nobody could hear serving the liturgy.

I have zero experience with babies, so this might sound like a strange question. Is there anything parents can do to quiet down an upset baby without taking them outside? I thought that was what pacifiers were for, but there is apparently a thing among mothers where they won't use pacifiers for fear of messing up the kid's teeth.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Sometimes a pacifer isn't enough. If a baby has gas, is sick, or just plain fussy, sometimes a pacifier just won't do it. Also, most toddlers are beyond the age of pacifiers. Sometimes, a toddler will just throw a tantrum just for the sake of throwing a tantrum.

So yes, sometimes it is absolutely neccasarey to remove them from the sanctuary.

 

[Matrona]

I know some Catholic Churches have introduced "Crying Rooms" in the newer churches that are being built. It is a small glass room at the back of the sanctuary that is sound proof, and it has the service piped in through speakers. I think this is a good idea b/c the family is still a part of the service, but the small children are not distracting to the other parishoners. Perhaps this is an idea the Orthodox Churches could adopt.

I like Cry Rooms too. They seem to have them more often in parishes with sound systems. In my parish, the narthex serves that purpose adequately.

 

[Shubunkin]

I have zero experience with babies, so this might sound like a strange question. Is there anything parents can do to quiet down an upset baby without taking them outside? I thought that was what pacifiers were for, but there is apparently a thing among mothers where they won't use pacifiers for fear of messing up the kid's teeth.

Pacifiers will not mess up a youngster's teeth if they are taken away at the proper age. It is much easier to remove a pacifier from a toddler, than their thumb. I am all for pacifiers because of that. I have known quite a few children with messed up teeth from the thumbsucking problem.

 

[Shubunkin]

Our kids were well behaved in church, and I don't remember what we did to make them behave, quite honestly! However, I remember one time we were in church when they were about 3 years old, and they were sitting with us very quietly. One son turned to me to ask a question, and the lady in front of us turned to me and said we should put our kids in the children's care at the church. I was astonished because they were not misbehaving at all! I was quite upset with that attitude, actually. This was before we became Lutherans. It was an Evangelical Covenant church.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Our kids were well behaved in church, and I don't remember what we did to make them behave, quite honestly! However, I remember one time we were in church when they were about 3 years old, and they were sitting with us very quietly. One son turned to me to ask a question, and the lady in front of us turned to me and said we should put our kids in the children's care at the church. I was astonished because they were not misbehaving at all! I was quite upset with that attitude, actually. This was before we became Lutherans. It was an Evangelical Covenant church.

My priest has 8 children, 1 of which has autism. The children are always kept in the liturgy with very minimal disruption (the autistic child is better behaved than many "normal" children I've seen in other parishes, and he's not just mildly autistic). I really don't know what their secret is, other than the fact that they have high expectations for the kids and they have a very low tolerance for misbehavior. I think I've only seen their youngest child (now age 4) removed once during a liturgy for acting up. The child sobered up quickly (I'm guessing he might have gotten a swat on the tush) and was fine the rest of the service.

It really blesses me to see children who have gotten to the point that they can participate in the liturgy at a young age, even if it's only doing things like crossing themselves, kissing icons, or prostrating at appropriate times.

 

[Matrona]

Pacifiers will not mess up a youngster's teeth if they are taken away at the proper age. It is much easier to remove a pacifier from a toddler, than their thumb. I am all for pacifiers because of that. I have known quite a few children with messed up teeth from the thumbsucking problem.

Oh, I hate thumbsucking. Nothing like a kid who sucks their thumb with abandon, and then sticks their saliva-coated hand on you.

I don't think there's anything wrong with bringing a quiet toy or some little attention-occupier for a small child to have during Liturgy, but if their activity starts bothering others or if they start screaming or making noise, they need to be taken out of the nave.

Is there any kind of rationale for a parent to completely ignore a screaming child? I was once visiting a parish where a mother didn't even try to quiet her child during DL, just kept him with her the entire time. The parish regulars, in turn, seemed to be resolutely ignoring the kid's screams, but I couldn't hear myself think, much less the priest or choir.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Is there any kind of rationale for a parent to completely ignore a screaming child? I was once visiting a parish where a mother didn't even try to quiet her child during DL, just kept him with her the entire time. The parish regulars, in turn, seemed to be resolutely ignoring the kid's screams, but I couldn't hear myself think, much less the priest or choir.

I don't understand this phenomena either. In the parish I used to to attend this would happen often. The priest or deacon had even had to stop services before because he couldn't hear himself (and no one else could either) because of screaming or shouting children. Meanwhile, the parents just sat there as if nothing was wrong. I couldn't pretend I wasn't hearing my child shouting during a liturgy.

 

[Maximus]

I was a fan of nurseries in Protestantism and I'm still a fan of them in the OC.

I love children, but let's be rational. They don't absolutely need to be in the service that young and they often distract the other people who do.

BTW, you're not a "terrible mother" as I can see.

I agree.

Children are not adults. They are obviously not at the same stage in their development, do not have the same sort of attention spans, and have very different needs than those of adults.

In a nursery or a Sunday School classroom, they can learn that church is a pleasant place to learn about the Lord Jesus Christ who loves them.

In Divine Liturgy they will learn either that it is okay to run wild or that mom and dad are going to force them to be bored out of their minds, or both alternately.

I know people who positively hate church because of such experiences.

I don't blame them.

 

[Tsarina]

I say, stick the children in Sunday School while the adults are in Church, lols. Until the children are old enough to realize that they cannot make too much noise or run around the Church, then mabe the parents can consider it.

 

[Photini]

It was very humbling for me when I first started attending the Divine Liturgy, to see that a 3 year old toddler knew how to venerate an Icon and I felt like such a clutz.

 

[Photini]

FOr me it is imperative that my children are IN CHURCH and participating in the Divine Liturgy. My kids are well beyond "tantrum" throwing years though. But I never liked the idea of having the children taken out of the church and isolated from the worship. I understand (after all I have two children) that sometimes kids can get woolly...but a shriek or two is no reason, IMO, to take them immediately out of the church.

 

[Maximus]

FOr me it is imperative that my children are IN CHURCH and participating in the Divine Liturgy. My kids are well beyond "tantrum" throwing years though. But I never liked the idea of having the children taken out of the church and isolated from the worship. I understand (after all I have two children) that sometimes kids can get woolly...but a shriek or two is no reason, IMO, to take them immediately out of the church.

Pardon me, Photini, I mean no offense, but how is giving small children something they can understand and enjoy, in a room removed from something they cannot understand and may possibly disrupt, isolating them from worship?

Using the words "isolated from worship" implies that small children want to worship in the same manner as adults and understand what such worship is.

For every little kid who knows how to venerate an icon, there must be five who know how to knock them over.

 

[Matrona]

In a nursery or a Sunday School classroom, they can learn that church is a pleasant place to learn about the Lord Jesus Christ who loves them.

In Divine Liturgy they will learn either that it is okay to run wild or that mom and dad are going to force them to be bored out of their minds, or both alternately.

I know people who positively hate church because of such experiences.

I don't blame them.

I understand what you're saying, but my parents used to drag me to a non-denominational church where I was shuffled off into sunday school. I was left with the impression that Big Church is a bad, boring place, and it's good to play games and eat candy while the adults go to icky Big Church. I'm sure I would have thought better of "Big Church" if my parents had any kind of sense of responsibility when it came to my religious education, or tried to nurture any kind of faith in me.

There isn't two Jesuses, one for the grownups and one for children, so why have two churches? Kids need the Orthodox Church just as much as adults do. If children find Liturgy boring, I don't think they should have that attitude reinforced with treats. They should be taught what the Orthodox Church is all about.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I understand what you're saying, but my parents used to drag me to a non-denominational church where I was shuffled off into sunday school. I was left with the impression that Big Church is a bad, boring place, and it's good to play games and eat candy while the adults go to icky Big Church. I'm sure I would have thought better of "Big Church" if my parents had any kind of sense of responsibility when it came to my religious education, or tried to nurture any kind of faith in me.

There isn't two Jesuses, one for the grownups and one for children, so why have two churches? Kids need the Orthodox Church just as much as adults do. If children find Liturgy boring, I don't think they should have that attitude reinforced with treats. They should be taught what the Orthodox Church is all about.

Wish I could rep you for this, Matrona.

 

[Photini]

Pardon me, Photini, I mean no offense, but how is giving small children something they can understand and enjoy, in a room removed from something they cannot understand and may possibly disrupt, isolating them from worship?

Using the words "isolated from worship" implies that small children want to worship in the same manner as adults and understand what such worship is.

For every little kid who knows how to venerate an icon, there must be five who know how to knock them over.

The more often a child is exposed to the Liturgy the better. The first few months were difficult for my children to adapt... but gradually it became less and less of a struggle, and now they are attentive and follow along in the Liturgy. My daughter even keeps an eye on me so to make sure I am on the right page in the Liturgy book.

 

[Photini]

I understand what you're saying, but my parents used to drag me to a non-denominational church where I was shuffled off into sunday school. I was left with the impression that Big Church is a bad, boring place, and it's good to play games and eat candy while the adults go to icky Big Church. I'm sure I would have thought better of "Big Church" if my parents had any kind of sense of responsibility when it came to my religious education, or tried to nurture any kind of faith in me.

There isn't two Jesuses, one for the grownups and one for children, so why have two churches? Kids need the Orthodox Church just as much as adults do. If children find Liturgy boring, I don't think they should have that attitude reinforced with treats. They should be taught what the Orthodox Church is all about.

Reps to you Matrona. God bless.

 

[Rilian]

Father stresses keeping all of the kids in worship, and we don't have a Sunday school or anything else going on during liturgy. There is usually a pretty continual movement of people going in and out as they need.

My daughter is able to sit through the liturgy in its entirety, and she actually prefers to be in front where she can see. She is five. My three year old boy is a different story, and he's all over the place. Three is just a hard age, at least it has been with both my kids. We have our good days and bad days in liturgy, you never know. Sometimes one of us is out of the sanctuary for a fair amount of time. That's just the way it goes though.

I'm thankful our parish is accomodating of kids, and it's probably a necessity, because we have a lot of them.

 

[Photini]

My priest made a recent modification to the Sunday school program. Now the children are in the Liturgy until after Communion..THEN they leave for Sunday School. This is flip-flopped from how it used to be. I LOVE IT.