Taking kids to Church

[MariaRegina]

I remember hearing about a cradle-Orthodox boy, about five or so, whose dad found him in his room with a cup of juice and some bread on a table. He had his stuffed animals positioned in front of him and he was preaching a homily to them.

A future priest? St. Seraphim did the same thing, as I recall from my readings, except I think he preached to his pets and friends.

 

[Theophorus]

I really like the idea of taking a misbehaving child out of church, to an environment they like less than they do church.

Yes, Yes, yes.

Rainbowbright, let me tell you something. Ufonium2 is right on. Don't let a child stay and disrupt the services, but when you take him out, make it miserable.

I have 5, ages 2,4,5 9 and 13. When I started attending they were younger. We attend a monastary because it was 5 minutes from the house. The parishes were over an hour away. Try to get 5 children ready for church at the crack of dawn and drive an hour for an hour 1/2 services. They are cranky mean at that point, starving to death etc. So we go to the monastery.
Tile floorsare tile, metal folding chairs. Everything echoes. There is no formal narthex, it is more of a temporary chapel. There is no place to escape but outside, and what a blessing that is. When they act up, I would take them outside, in the heat, in the cold, even in the rain. We would just stand there, the child whinning to go back to mom, to get be anyplace but there. When he/she had collected themselves, we went back in.

I know the frustrations of having to "monitor" the children. I was always pulling someones hand out of their pocket. Chasing them away from the candles so they don't go up in spontaneous human combustion. Placing my foot or leg against a chair so it doesn't scrape like nails on a chalkboard sliding accross the floor. Stopping incesant twirling, hopping in place, nose picking, humming, giggling foot tappings, the lifting of one's skirt over her head or another trying to pull my pants down. Picking another up from rolling on the floor, knuckle cracking, having my face molded like putty, diaper removals, crashes and stumbles of all sorts.

And that was a good day. I too have a strongwilled child. Actually I have two of them. I have spent many liturgies exiting to the church for long periods. 1st with one child, then another, and sometimes even with a third.

Guess what? They got better. After a few months (yes, I did say months the Lord gave me strength) they began to be quiet. They adapted. It has been a huge improvement.

I am a strong believer of children staying in the services. There is grace there, even amidst all of the distractions.

 

[Matrona]

A future priest? St. Seraphim did the same thing, as I recall from my readings, except I think he preached to his pets and friends.

I believe so.

Don't forget St. Athanasios, who was baptizing one of his friends in the ocean. A bishop who lived by the sea saw them, and came out to ask what they were doing, and Athanasios explained, so the bishop took them into the church to finish the baptism.

 

[MariaRegina]

Yes, Yes, yes.

Rainbowbright, let me tell you something. Ufonium2 is right on. Don't let a child stay and disrupt the services, but when you take him out, make it miserable.

I have 5, ages 2,4,5 9 and 13. When I started attending they were younger. We attend a monastary because it was 5 minutes from the house. The parishes were over an hour away. Try to get 5 children ready for church at the crack of dawn and drive an hour for an hour 1/2 services. They are cranky mean at that point, starving to death etc. So we go to the monastery.
Tile floorsare tile, metal folding chairs. Everything echoes. There is no formal narthex, it is more of a temporary chapel. There is no place to escape but outside, and what a blessing that is. When they act up, I would take them outside, in the heat, in the cold, even in the rain. We would just stand there, the child whinning to go back to mom, to get be anyplace but there. When he/she had collected themselves, we went back in.

I know the frustrations of having to "monitor" the children. I was always pulling someones hand out of their pocket. Chasing them away from the candles so they don't go up in spontaneous human combustion. Placing my foot or leg against a chair so it doesn't scrape like nails on a chalkboard sliding accross the floor. Stopping incesant twirling, hopping in place, nose picking, humming, giggling foot tappings, the lifting of one's skirt over her head or another trying to pull my pants down. Picking another up from rolling on the floor, knuckle cracking, having my face molded like putty, diaper removals, crashes and stumbles of all sorts.

And that was a good day. I too have a strongwilled child. Actually I have two of them. I have spent many liturgies exiting to the church for long periods. 1st with one child, then another, and sometimes even with a third.

Guess what? They got better. After a few months (yes, I did say months the Lord gave me strength) they began to be quiet. They adapted. It has been a huge improvement.

I am a strong believer of children staying in the services. There is grace there, even amidst all of the distractions.

Wow! What a fantastic post.

Children do teach us patience, don't they.

Possess patience, and you will become saints ... Didn't a saint say that?

Anyway, a family is a school of sanctity.
And a family is a domestic church. Therefore, families belong in Church.

 

[Theophorus]

Children do teach us patience, don't they.

More than we think we have, that's for sure.

 

[rainbowbright]

Yes, Yes, yes.

Rainbowbright, let me tell you something. Ufonium2 is right on. Don't let a child stay and disrupt the services, but when you take him out, make it miserable.

I have 5, ages 2,4,5 9 and 13. When I started attending they were younger. We attend a monastary because it was 5 minutes from the house. The parishes were over an hour away. Try to get 5 children ready for church at the crack of dawn and drive an hour for an hour 1/2 services. They are cranky mean at that point, starving to death etc. So we go to the monastery.
Tile floorsare tile, metal folding chairs. Everything echoes. There is no formal narthex, it is more of a temporary chapel. There is no place to escape but outside, and what a blessing that is. When they act up, I would take them outside, in the heat, in the cold, even in the rain. We would just stand there, the child whinning to go back to mom, to get be anyplace but there. When he/she had collected themselves, we went back in.

I know the frustrations of having to "monitor" the children. I was always pulling someones hand out of their pocket. Chasing them away from the candles so they don't go up in spontaneous human combustion. Placing my foot or leg against a chair so it doesn't scrape like nails on a chalkboard sliding accross the floor. Stopping incesant twirling, hopping in place, nose picking, humming, giggling foot tappings, the lifting of one's skirt over her head or another trying to pull my pants down. Picking another up from rolling on the floor, knuckle cracking, having my face molded like putty, diaper removals, crashes and stumbles of all sorts.

And that was a good day. I too have a strongwilled child. Actually I have two of them. I have spent many liturgies exiting to the church for long periods. 1st with one child, then another, and sometimes even with a third.

Guess what? They got better. After a few months (yes, I did say months the Lord gave me strength) they began to be quiet. They adapted. It has been a huge improvement.

I am a strong believer of children staying in the services. There is grace there, even amidst all of the distractions.

I would have to say that you and your wife are deffinitely martyrs with having to handle with five kids all at once during DL. I have also had good days like yours, but with only having to handle with one- usually that involves him running to the people he likes for the day and they hold him. I do take him outside when he misbehaves and we've tried leaving him in the car on hot days while waiting on the curb for him to calm down and other such means of torture, but when when he finally calms down and we try to back into the churchgo he acts up again and we end up staying outside. Fortunately, people at church are very patient with him and Father has conditioned everyone to where they know that children belong in the service and that it is a sacrifice for everyone (the elderly in our church still have a problem with this, though).

My son is very spiritual and he is learning how to cross himself, he venerates the icons and LOVES taking communion, he even reminds us that we have to do prayers everyday at home if we forget. We can tell he's very sensitive to things that are spiritual and I know we have taking him to DL to thank for all of this.

 

[Theophorus]

I would have to say that you and your wife are deffinitely martyrs with having to handle with five kids all at once during DL. I have also had good days like yours, but with only having to handle with one- usually that involves him running to the people he likes for the day and they hold him. I do take him outside when he misbehaves and we've tried leaving him in the car on hot days while waiting on the curb for him to calm down and other such means of torture, but when when he finally calms down and we try to back into the churchgo he acts up again and we end up staying outside. Fortunately, people at church are very patient with him and Father has conditioned everyone to where they know that children belong in the service and that it is a sacrifice for everyone (the elderly in our church still have a problem with this, though).

My son is very spiritual and he is learning how to cross himself, he venerates the icons and LOVES taking communion, he even reminds us that we have to do prayers everyday at home if we forget. We can tell he's very sensitive to things that are spiritual and I know we have taking him to DL to thank for all of this.

I know your pain. My 9 year old boy was the same at that age. I remember going to resturants and having my meal brought to me in a doggy bag in the car because he was just, well... out of control. You have a good priest, and yes, many older members always seem to remember their child rearing days through rose colored glasses. That is their blessing, to remember the good things about their children.

Don't give up. Your child seems alot like mine. He has the biggest heart of all my children, he too reminds us to say prayers, he too also is spiritual in ways that surprise me even to this day, even though he has been a challenge from the second he was born. Never happy to be held, never content, always bored and messing with someone.. just.. well ..I think you know. But I would trust any of my other children with him, he cares about others and is a better person than me.
You owe it to him to perservere. He will turn 5 one day, and certain things will get better, like breathing, but new challenges will manifest. Then those will get better and then others come. But it has gotten easier, and the rewards are worth it.

God bless you rainbowbright

 

[Dust and Ashes]

You have a good priest, and yes, many older members always seem to remember their child rearing days through rose colored glasses. That is their blessing, to remember the good things about their children.

Maybe it's less that they are not remembering accurately and more that things were indeed different back then. Society has a strong influence on a child's behaviour and we definately live in a time when "freedom" and "choice" are stretched a bit farther than maybe they should go. Children pick up on things and I think the overall environment makes a big difference in a child's attitude.

But the older people also have to realize this and be thankful that they didn't have to raise their children in such an environment.

 

[vanshan]

At my parish, they take the children from the line after they've taken communion and take them upstairs for Sunday School, which I always thought was strange. I would prefer to have my children there until the end of service so they can participate, by their presence, in the prayers of thanksgiving after communion. They don't understand much at this age (Anna, 4, Elijah, 3, and Isaac, 3/12 mos), but I would like the importance of the service to be shown to them by requiring their attendance and requiring reasonably good behavior. It's not always enjoyable for us or them, but this is part of the sacrifice we make by attending services.

I think many parents are being too lax or inconsistent in many areas of discipline, not just in church. So when they come to the services their children demonstrate the every day lack of discipline they've been granted. Termperments vary, no doubt, so we should never judge any else's parenting, but I have seen so many parents who are at the mercy of their children which is so sad for their family and everyone suffering from contact with them. Many are afraid of being the bad guy with their children --I think the problem of parents not wanting to be strict is exacerbated by having children raised in day cares by the majority of us also. If they only have their children a minority of each week, they hardly want to spend that precious time cracking the whip, so to speak. So at daycare they are handled with the modern philosophy of letting them express themselves without having much self-control taught, then at home the parents don't want to curtail their behavior either which ='s monster children.

We have found that a strict yet loving environment is working for us, so far. Our kids do not get away with much. We show some patience in small things, but nothing disruptive goes without correction of some sort. They fear correction, but are not afraid of us, since we lavish love and praise on them in greater proportion. At church they are expected to sit or stand by us. Elijah can sit on the floor or crawl around our immediate area a little more, since he's 3, but he must be silent at all times. I know some would see our expectations as too great or think that we must beat our children to have them behave in what must seem very unnatural way, to those who aren't as strict. They know what we expect, they do "fear" correction, and they are great.

As far as how we react to monster children, it's a real challenge, no question about it. When they scream and tear apart the temple, it does bring to surface those things hidden in our hearts which is not all bad, right? The fathers all seem to agree that hardships and offenses done to us are actually good medicine for learning what is in our hearts, so we can truly know our sinfulness and work harder to purify ourselves. I have to remind myself this when someone cuts me off in traffic .

Basil

 

[Mary of Bethany]

My sons are grown now, and I didn't have the blessing of raising them in an Orthodox church, so I can't speak from personal experience.

But our parish is absolutely *full* of little children every week. You should see the line for communion! It's a wonderful sight to behold. I stand in the choir - which in our parish is up front next to the left deacon door so I can see all of the congregation. We have no pews so the kids are free to roam somewhat, and yes some are noisy and distracting, and their parents have to take them out of the sanctuary sometimes. And I know it is hard on the parents - hard to focus on worship, but they are doing what parents are given to do - and that is their worship, their offering to God. I know it's not easy, but it's good, and it's right, and the children are where they should be - in Divine Liturgy surrounded by Angels, and Saints, and Christ Himself.

Mary

 

[Photini]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Theophorus again.

I tried.
​

 

[MariaRegina]

I believe so.

Don't forget St. Athanasios, who was baptizing one of his friends in the ocean. A bishop who lived by the sea saw them, and came out to ask what they were doing, and Athanasios explained, so the bishop took them into the church to finish the baptism.

Thanks for retelling that story.

 

[Fotina]

This article has good ideas to try.

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles5/MorelliParenting.php

 

[Matrona]

This article has good ideas to try.

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles5/MorelliParenting.php

Good article, although I thought it was a little weird that he described the Eucharist as the "Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity" of Jesus Christ.

The first two are all that are mentioned in my epiklesis.