Suffering and sin in the world....

[Extirpated Wildlife]

I looked at that link and I disagree with it. It doesn't deal with original sin quite well at all. it leaves the ability of saying just being nice to your neighbor is all you need. You don't need Jesus.

I certainly know my terminology is not always perfect (i.e. disruption) and that you may not get all that I way saying.

I disagree with your position. I do believe Adam was a legitimate soul. I do believe sin exists because of disobedience to God. If we don't agree on how original sin came to be, I have no idea how this topic continues from here.

 

[stumpjumper]

Well I doubt that we will come to complete agreement. It would be nice but that rarely happens anyway

Do you think, however, that it is possible that Original Sin which really is a propensity to sin is more simply a result of moral and natural freedom. OS is different from actual sin in that all of us are prone to sin because of freedom. I could dig up my book God After Darwin and find a cool quote but if you deny the possibility that Original Sin comes from something other than an inherited disposition from a literal Adam we probably won't reach much agreement.

 

[stumpjumper]

Bump

 

[rmwilliamsll]

This is an older thread that was bumped. Thanks i left the CF board for a few months to read and didn't see it back then.

The name of the issue in the OP is theodicy or as the OP words it the problem of evil. The problem of evil comes in two major forms: natural and human or moral. The OP addresses the human/moral side of the discussion. There are several well formed answers to the question. A. Plantinga is probably the person most responsible for the modern formation of the question and for making the "free will defense" so popular in Christian circles. imho, the most accessible resources on the issue is Chapter 27 of _The Philosophic Foundations of a Christian Worldview_ by J.P.Moreland and W.L.Craig. It is one of those books that i wish everyone would read and understand BEFORE they posted here. It would save a lot of time and wasted energy and let us actually get to real problems in the field, instead of going over and over the same thing.

thanks for bumping the thread. it is an important issue, a few hours googling and reading ought to be able to get anyone covered on the major points.

 

[stumpjumper]

"A. Plantinga is probably the person most responsible for the modern formation of the question and for making the "free will defense" so popular in Christian circles. imho"


Most certainly. I have read some Plantinga and in his free will theodicy he does go into the natural freedom of the world. He states how it is neccesary to create an environment in which we are free to accept or reject God's love and that is what the story in the Garden of Eden was meant to show.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

God created man for the purpose of living an evil, sinful life, and to be finally destroyed by him. Only a few will be chosen to live righteously and inherit a place in God's kingdom. When man was created sin was waiting for him, to enter into him, and finally destroy him. This is God's plan, which is still in effect today.

 

[PaladinValer]

I worship the Trinity, not some being who cannot adhere to its own nature and self.