Submission, Housework, Laziness, BPD, Marriage questions/discussion

[jmz]

Have been married for approx 15 years, first (and ONLY! marriage). Absolutely love my wife to bits and would give my life for her within a second. We have a wonderful daughter who is the joy of my life and am thankful for God brining them into my life.

Background
First i would like to say that my wife and I are VERY much aligned ideologically. And though she may not practice much of what she believes in she is very much ideologically in line with me, and me with her. You would think this would help with not having arguments...but it doesnt. We both are staunchly opposed to schooling, feminism, leftism and in general even the State as a whole due to its reliance on coercion (for another forum). We believe in Jesus Christ and long for his return . And for the most part even our theology is heavily aligned. I dont know of any other couple that is more aligned ideologically tbh...
Yet inspite of our strong alignment, we have massive struggles, arguments etc. My wife struggles from abandonment and lack of attachment from quite possible a young age and i think this has had major implications on our marriage. She has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. She is very depressed. VERY.
I come from a strong line of Christians over multiple generations and will NEVER give up on her though this also means im likely more of a "just make the right choice" type personality (Secure christians can be a bit "harsh" like this) and she is the first evangelical in what i think is 4 generations (also the first to make it past 30 without divorce). I do believe the devil is with strong intention trying to take her down (and me with her, though he wont be able to Jesus got me)

I make an ok living (~240k annual). Am reasonably fit, keep myself in ok shape (lean muscle, no fat), lead the fam and help out where i can. I use the term "lead" loosely because is someone a leader if there are no followers? And in this case if my wife doesnt follow, then no matter what leader qualities i have or dont have i am by practical definition not a leader. I'm told (even by my wife) that women like a leader. as an ENTJ this comes naturally to me to take on the commander type leadership role and have always excelled in this area and most of what i put my hand to (though clearly not marriage), rising quickly in any job scene.

I will say that i dont get that intimate with her more recently especially but thats not for lack of desire!! (my wife is also flippin HOT though she doesnt think so ) but the reality is from a lot of what she says, she hates my guts, often verbally calling for my death, even in front of our daughter, saying she would rather be with other men (i think she says this to hurt me not because she actually wants it, she hates adultery and impurity with a passion...ironically...). So i dont get the sense that she intends well for us or really wants me. For me to pursue intimacy in this context seems disrespectful tbh and downright rude.
Though perhaps once a month when the hormones have shifted to the "right zone" she "likes" me ...

Basically with all her hate towards feminism it seems she cant help align with some of the feminist behaviour that culture has surrounded her in. Ideologically we are together. But practically.... we arent....

Discussion Points and Questions
1. Practicality - i do most of the housework. I cook, clean, do washing, vacuum tidy etc. Not 100% of the time but a solid 80%+. In fact after being told over and over it wasnt true i thought i was starting to get deluded so i tracked the data for a good few months (and believe me i would hope to be wrong!!). It ended up being worse than i had thought. The reality is my wife lacks motivation to do any of it. My day starts early, i work (from home most of the time) and then im done and get straight into cooking and cleaning, and interacting with my daughter on her unschooling life. I am very grateful and appreciate that my wife will still drive my daughter to a few specific activities but if she didnt i would do that too. Somedays i feel a little bit like a single dad. And it GRATES me to no end when i hear women talking about how their husband doesnt do much!!.... QUESTION: How am i suppose to get my wife to help out? I think my body will handle this for years to come but i dont know,.. moreover im concerned my daughter will learn from this priviledged type state where the father/husband does jsut about everything and the women sit back and benefit off it. And then you hear women complain about the patriarchy.....

2. Worship - getting my wife to church has been incredibly difficult. Again, not for lack of ideology. but because the sense of community and connection isnt there in her mind. She has what i would call a grass-is-greener mentality, that if we just try the next church around the corner after all there's 100s around! That she would find some connection. its solution by numbers/probability. We have church hopped a few times and ultimately ive put my foot down and locked us in for the moment. This partly for my daughter's sake who likes the stability and is getting to know the church a bit more, enjoys the kids program and is learning (she learns a tonne more at home though tbh...im the home preacher with my ramblings about scripture, philosophy and hermaneutics). QUESTION: Do i keep pushing even though it is showing signs of her just not going? My daughter will stick to her mother (fear that her mother might disapear, i think based on an event in the past when she was very little, where she did just get up jump out of the parked car and took off) so if she stops my daughter will stop. Every church we have attended eventually after 3-6months there is enough fall out (differeing opinion, sense of being judged, whether real or not, that makes my wife want to leave). The issue i see is that she has a leaky bucket, her parents didnt give her the love and attachment she needed and now connecting with others is incredibly difficult. Moving churches i dont think will solve this.

3. Marriage - honestly dont know what to say but ...help? Any ideas? Suggestions? "Have you sat down and discussed abc...." btw is not a solution. This requires two reasonably stable, sane people who can have adult conversation. I can have far more contreversial differing heavily opionated conversation with my daughter and its wonderful and even fun then a slight deviation of opinion with my wife. She says she doesnt mind people having different opinions but i think she reads differing opinions as judgements against her. Part of the issue is my wife and I are both intellectuals by personality traits. She's INTJ and im ENTJ. However due to insecurities from her child hood and i think also as a woman the delivery of information is just as important (if not more) than the actual content. The concept that truth isnt as important as the delivery is a saddening thought and i think a constant issue in todays societies of broken insecure people. Thats why the term "snowflake" came about.

Anyway thats my speel. Appreciate your guys thoughts, comments and prayers!

ps. btw if anyone wondering why she is with me still?
1. I make all the money...money is so powerful, its ridiculously sad and pathetic but it is what it is. If she still wants dresses, healthy good food, holidays, just to survive then she needs me. Her earning potential is quite low. (Her mothering and nurturing potential is very high!! Man people need to praise mothers more often...best role in the world for a woman and my wife agress lol yet wheres the practice....)
2. For our daughters sake (she sometimes says in a fit of anger once shes of x age then ill leave).
3. She fears judgement from the christian community?
4. Maybe she still intends well for me and maybe theres a glimmer of hope that she hopes one day things will be better?

 

[YorkieGal]

Money isn't powerful enough to keep a woman with a man where there is an imbalance of power which she's not happy about. Imbalances of power, e.g. man makes more money than a woman, works to keep a woman if the woman has a strong social network, family etc. which distracts or puts less emphasis on the imbalance.

In this case, it sounds to me like your wife is lacking a purpose, and maybe self-esteem and has resigned herself to let you control the finances, the house and the child. If your personality is much stronger than hers is, and she's only really able to communicate when she's frustrated, then it would make sense that she blows up on you, goes along with status quo, blows up again etc

Maybe she would benefit from finding a part-time job, volunteer work at your kids school or a church or something where she feels valued by herself so that she isn't taking the empty parts of herself out on you?

What would happen if you just didn't do the housework? What would happen if you talked to her about how you feel? What would she think about this comment from me, here?

 

[Paidiske]

A couple of questions:
- How old is your daughter?
- What treatment and support is your wife getting for her mental health?

My first instinct is to say that if she's unwell, that's probably the thing that needs to be tackled first. If all her internal resources are taken up just be getting through the day, then she's not going to have enough to deal with practical things like housework as well.

I'd let her make her own decisions about church. Depending on the age of your daughter, you can continue to insist on taking her.

As for the marriage bit, of course your delivery matters. If your comments are delivered in a way which undermines her sense of security in your love, she won't be able to take them on board. To be honest, even your post here comes across as judgemental of her, and that's not going to get you very far. That might be an area you need to work on.

 

[jmz]

Money isn't powerful enough to keep a woman with a man where there is an imbalance of power which she's not happy about. Imbalances of power, e.g. man makes more money than a woman, works to keep a woman if the woman has a strong social network, family etc. which distracts or puts less emphasis on the imbalance.

In this case, it sounds to me like your wife is lacking a purpose, and maybe self-esteem and has resigned herself to let you control the finances, the house and the child. If your personality is much stronger than hers is, and she's only really able to communicate when she's frustrated, then it would make sense that she blows up on you, goes along with status quo, blows up again etc

Maybe she would benefit from finding a part-time job, volunteer work at your kids school or a church or something where she feels valued by herself so that she isn't taking the empty parts of herself out on you?

What would happen if you just didn't do the housework? What would happen if you talked to her about how you feel? What would she think about this comment from me, here?

Not sure which comment you are refering to. She would be angry with some of your commments. Like some of them. Probably hone in on you talking about part-time job, she doesnt want a job.

Absolutely she is lacking purpose and self-esteem. And actually i took the reigns of finances ( spending) because we were getting no-where with her spending habits. In hindsight i think she has seen the benefits of this now though doesnt say it.

Oh and i wouldnt want to keep her with money lol 100% definitely not. Its just that IS a staying factor whether we like it or not. I cant help it that i earn a higher salary. Goodness wonder what would happen if i didnt!!

My kid doesnt go to school. She is homeschooled (by me) and the odd activities that my wife takes her too. Any type of work volunteer or not requires mixing with people which means opportunities to be judged, have different opinions etc

Yeah i tried that approach of not doing any housework for 2ish weeks for anything hygienic (like dishes etc) and bit longer for clothing surfaces etc. It got MESSY. very messy lol.

She will tend to wash the exact thing she needs at the time she needs it.


Interestingly if someone comes to dinner (very rare ) usually her father. She will up and clean the house and everything for fear of judgement. At one point i was about to get a roast i was making out of the oven and people were going to arrive and she quickly tried to push me aside and say "what do i do?!" XD.

My daughter thank goodness is starting to pick up on the needs and will do the dishes from time to time and that to help me out which im very thankful for. I dont want to make it about the practical nature, yeah sure some days im exhausted but i have high energy i could do this for years. Its that i dont think its healthy for my wife. Its reiterating to her that shes "not a good wife" even if i do it while singing and with a smile etc. Shes really stuck in a rut.

Talking to her about how i feel? done many many many times over the years. Used NVC, Eggerichs work on Love & Respect. Anything that gives hint that she is not "what she should be" even if its not even meant that way in the slightest, doesnt go well. The fact that it couldve meant that is triggering in and ofitself. Contrary to typical stereotypes, Im definitely the one who more easiliy shares my feelings. But i have to walk on eggshells because of the way things are read.

Ive been praying through Stormie Omartian's "A Praying Husband" book as sometimes, I am in despair its hard for to know what words to even say to my Lord.

 

[jmz]

A couple of questions:
- How old is your daughter?
- What treatment and support is your wife getting for her mental health?

My first instinct is to say that if she's unwell, that's probably the thing that needs to be tackled first. If all her internal resources are taken up just be getting through the day, then she's not going to have enough to deal with practical things like housework as well.

I'd let her make her own decisions about church. Depending on the age of your daughter, you can continue to insist on taking her.

As for the marriage bit, of course your delivery matters. If your comments are delivered in a way which undermines her sense of security in your love, she won't be able to take them on board. To be honest, even your post here comes across as judgemental of her, and that's not going to get you very far. That might be an area you need to work on.

Daughter is 9
Wife is searching for all sorts of treatment. Not pharmaceutical, i support her on this.

I do let her make her own decisions about church sometimes i just leave but they still come along (thank you Jesus). My daughter is probably part of the reason, she is more "forceful" than i am... as going with my cultural background im not a terribly forceful person. In fact my wife used to get upset with me calling me a beta male all the time haha.
I've made suggestions re specific counsellors but she usually wont take my suggestions she needs to suss them out for herself to see if they are a fit. She generally would prefer her meeting with a male counsellor not female. I semi support her on this...i think (in my spirit) she needs an older woman counsellor in her life. She doesnt get along well with females in general.

Interested to know what you mean by judgemental and where you saw that?. In this day and age its so tricky to know what "should" and "shouldnt" be said. Everyone judges, thats normal and actually how we function, even to be able to read a sentence you must make judgements. To understand that a tree is a tree and not a rock, you make judgements its incredibly difficult to know what is "good" judgement and what isnt. hence why i try and always lean on the intention of the deliverer. Did they mean well. We are all so fallible, culturally im from a different non-western country where there is a strong belief in Christ, where people robustly have enjoyable healthy discussion and there is very little animosity of differences of opinion. My wife is from the west where you have to walk on so many egg shells all the time.

It is literally impossible to write a sentence that has no level of judgement in it. I must make judgement calls to create definitions to form into sentences.

 

[YorkieGal]

It sounds difficult. As a woman, I just think from what you've said, she has no identity (other than how she's viewed by you and your daughter) and then feels too pressured to perform outside of the house and her habits to actually be able to follow through to form one. She's not had enough exposure to the outside world so she's comfortable to live within a bubble re: money and security but not happy in herself.

I bet she secretly dreams of being more independent but is too scared to take a leap and so ends up being resentful of the situation and takes it out on the one person who she's close to because that's the only person she talks to and believes accepts her, for better or for worse and lives the life she probably wishes she could live if she had better mindset, skills, opportunities etc.

Edited to say: if her knee jerk reaction to a job suggestion is anger, well anger is a secondary emotion to fear (according to psychology).

Does she work out with you at all? Do any cardio? Have you tried to encourage her in this way? It might build her confidence and give her some happy hormones?

Trying to assist, remotely. It's difficult. I don't think you come across judgmental. I think you come across as someone who is confident, with healthy self-esteem and you are struggling to understand why the person you love doesn't mirror these things.

I think if you didn't care, you wouldn't have asked for advice here.

 

[Paidiske]

Wife is searching for all sorts of treatment. Not pharmaceutical, i support her on this.

What does her doctor recommend?

Because I'd say again, if the depression isn't managed, you're probably not going to get much traction on the rest.

Interested to know what you mean by judgemental and where you saw that?.

Just the way your post read; the mention of submission and laziness in the topic, saying that she doesn't practice what she believes in, the implication that she's not a stable, sane person able to have an adult conversation, and the suggestion that if she is hurt by your comments that she's a snowflake, and so on.

I sure wouldn't feel secure with someone who said that sort of thing about (or to) me.

 

[jmz]

Ill also highlight that in regards to the church, where we are was her leaning more than mine. She found it, initiated it and it was the only time i saw her give a fellowship a good'ish rating lol (i hate rating the body of Christ, but you know whatever ill take it!). I saw the rating and was like, great lets do it. Of course now a few months on she isnt keen on it because shes not connceting with anyone which ultimately and from the counselling she has had, i think is due to thes childhood issues .

We were fortunate to have had some meetings with one of the worlds leading experts on BPD and that helped provide clarity to a tonne of this.

 

[jmz]

It sounds difficult. As a woman, I just think from what you've said, she has no identity (other than how she's viewed by you and your daughter) and then feels too pressured to perform outside of the house and her habits to actually be able to follow through to form one. She's not had enough exposure to the outside world so she's comfortable to live within a bubble re: money and security but not happy in herself.

I bet she secretly dreams of being more independent but is too scared to take a leap and so ends up being resentful of the situation and takes it out on the one person who she's close to because that's the only person she talks to and believes accepts her, for better or for worse and lives the life she probably wishes she could live if she had better mindset, skills, opportunities etc.

Edited to say: if her knee jerk reaction to a job suggestion is anger, well anger is a secondary emotion to fear (according to psychology).

Does she work out with you at all? Do any cardio? Have you tried to encourage her in this way? It might build her confidence and give her some happy hormones?

Trying to assist, remotely. It's difficult. I don't think you come across judgmental. I think you come across as someone who is confident, with healthy self-esteem and you are struggling to understand why the person you love doesn't mirror these things.

I think if you didn't care, you wouldn't have asked for advice here.

Yeah fully re identity and its hard for me to know how to best help her to that point. And in some ways i dont know if i can.

Yeah not secret lol, she verbally says similar things about independence and leaving the family once our daughter is grown up. Im dont think im a protective, kinda "you must not go out", authoritarian type. Far from it. They go out all the time tbh. I just sit in my office and code lol. it doesnt come in my cultural background to be authoritarian. Like i love discussion and freedom and the like so i just dont know what to do.

Identity is a huge part of it as we learned from the BPD expert we were fortunate to work with for a season. And it comes from right back with attachement with her parents. Its partly also why our daughter isnt struggling in this department, because my wife was AMAZING with my daughter and how she handled her as a baby and toddler and ive told her this but i guess now its a different stage of life?
And my secure, confident Christian upbringing says "you find your identity in Christ!" but i know that cna come across as almost vague and blunt in a hurting situation like this. So ive learnt over the years to tone down the evangelical in me to better my delivery but its also really hard cos after a while you're like, Jesus what can i do! Seems like nothing.

And yeah bang on re the healthy self-esteem. If theres something ive learnt over these last few years and watching my daughter is the environment you grow up in plays a massive part in your overarching sense of security and self worth and that. I just dont struggle with the same things. no doubt that will make her feel not understood as much. I understand intellectually and i really care but i cant understand deeply, experientially because ive never been there. I do think though that God has brought us togehter (she used to think that too). When i look at my bounce-back ability and the confident self esteem i do realise im made for this journey! but at the same time i wonder, will i break in the sense that i become this broken, insecure, emasculated man in the future? I dont think so. I cant see it happening but...i read the stories :/

Oh man i wish she would work out with me but no usually she's too down and unmotivated (which doesnt help when she feels like she is getting fat...shes not...).

You are right in the whole taking it out on the one who cares, in fact she has said this to me straight, that i should be happy that i dont get a fake her (it stings but also makes me laugh ). She prepares the house and all the because she worried that she will be judged while she knows i will love her regardless anyway.

 

[jmz]

What does her doctor recommend?

Because I'd say again, if the depression isn't managed, you're probably not going to get much traction on the rest.

Just the way your post read; the mention of submission and laziness in the topic, saying that she doesn't practice what she believes in, the implication that she's not a stable, sane person able to have an adult conversation, and the suggestion that if she is hurt by your comments that she's a snowflake, and so on.

I sure wouldn't feel secure with someone who said that sort of thing about (or to) me.

Howd you split the quotations like that?
We dont have a doctor. We do have a really qualified naturopath type who has helped her out a tonne on the physical side. Mentally not really.
Hmm she says this kinda stuff about herself as well. I guess i read it as "data". The reality is she isnt a stable person. In terms of sanity, i think she is very sane (as in shes not wacko crazy) she is easily triggered at this season of life at least. (i have hope for the future).

I dont mean anything malicious by it.

In truth she isnt praciting what she believes in, obviously none of us truly do. We all fall short. but im talking about an acceptable level perhaps where it is conducive for family life?

 

[Paidiske]

Howd you split the quotations like that?

Put your cursor where you want to split the quote, and hit enter.

We dont have a doctor. We do have a really qualified naturopath type who has helped her out a tonne on the physical side. Mentally not really.

I really recommend a doctor, then. A full check up and a mental health care plan. Keep an open mind about the possible range of treatment options, including medications; they exist for a reason, and for many people, they make a massive positive difference.

 

[YorkieGal]

Yeah fully re identity and its hard for me to know how to best help her to that point. And in some ways i dont know if i can.

Yeah not secret lol, she verbally says similar things about independence and leaving the family once our daughter is grown up. Im dont think im a protective, kinda "you must not go out", authoritarian type. Far from it. They go out all the time tbh. I just sit in my office and code lol. it doesnt come in my cultural background to be authoritarian. Like i love discussion and freedom and the like so i just dont know what to do.

Identity is a huge part of it as we learned from the BPD expert we were fortunate to work with for a season. And it comes from right back with attachement with her parents. Its partly also why our daughter isnt struggling in this department, because my wife was AMAZING with my daughter and how she handled her as a baby and toddler and ive told her this but i guess now its a different stage of life?
And my secure, confident Christian upbringing says "you find your identity in Christ!" but i know that cna come across as almost vague and blunt in a hurting situation like this. So ive learnt over the years to tone down the evangelical in me to better my delivery but its also really hard cos after a while you're like, Jesus what can i do! Seems like nothing.

And yeah bang on re the healthy self-esteem. If theres something ive learnt over these last few years and watching my daughter is the environment you grow up in plays a massive part in your overarching sense of security and self worth and that. I just dont struggle with the same things. no doubt that will make her feel not understood as much. I understand intellectually and i really care but i cant understand deeply, experientially because ive never been there. I do think though that God has brought us togehter (she used to think that too). When i look at my bounce-back ability and the confident self esteem i do realise im made for this journey! but at the same time i wonder, will i break in the sense that i become this broken, insecure, emasculated man in the future? I dont think so. I cant see it happening but...i read the stories :/

Oh man i wish she would work out with me but no usually she's too down and unmotivated (which doesnt help when she feels like she is getting fat...shes not...).

You are right in the whole taking it out on the one who cares, in fact she has said this to me straight, that i should be happy that i dont get a fake her (it stings but also makes me laugh ). She prepares the house and all the because she worried that she will be judged while she knows i will love her regardless anyway.

Well, it sounds like you are doing what you know to do in a very challenging circumstance. It would be easy to think that she's not pulling her weight but maybe she's doing the best she can for now. Maybe some team building activities might help? You say you make a lot of money so do you have enough disposable income to take her fishing, hiking, camping, boating or just a night away for a chat every weekend or so? A cruise? Bowling? Something that will make her laugh but not make her self conscious or feel under pressure? Maybe give her something to look forward to, time to look forward to with you without distractions and a reason to dress up and feel nice? Is there any project work she could do around the house?

Maybe you could just write her a letter and tell her you are thankful for her and appreciate her for who she is and what she's done and continues to do......

I studied neuroscience and don't believe in medication for anxiety, depression, BPD etc (for many reasons which are too vast for this thread) but you will have to see what works for her because she's most important as she's not well.

Just some ideas...I hope it works out and I will pray for you all.

 

[jmz]

Put your cursor where you want to split the quote, and hit enter.

You think a software developer would know that.....

I really recommend a doctor, then. A full check up and a mental health care plan. Keep an open mind about the possible range of treatment options, including medications; they exist for a reason, and for many people, they make a massive positive difference.

Yeah could do. We did the doctor thing before for stuff without much success. Maybe in your country they're good but in ours they all parrot the same stuff and if you ask them to explain the underworkings they havent a clue why. Some of them even google for a solution while you are in the office with them?!

Thanks anyway!

 

[jmz]

Well, it sounds like you are doing what you know to do in a very challenging circumstance. It would be easy to think that she's not pulling her weight but maybe she's doing the best she can for now. Maybe some team building activities might help? You say you make a lot of money so do you have enough disposable income to take her fishing, hiking, camping, boating or just a night away for a chat every weekend or so? A cruise? Bowling? Something that will make her laugh but not make her self conscious or feel under pressure? Maybe give her something to look forward to, time to look forward to with you without distractions and a reason to dress up and feel nice? Is there any project work she could do around the house?

Maybe you could just write her a letter and tell her you are thankful for her and appreciate her for who she is and what she's done and continues to do......

Just some ideas...I hope it works out and I will pray for you all.

Yeah good idea, will try and do more of these. We have upped the ante on the number of holidaying we do. Certainly helps for the time you are away. Thank you.

 

[tturt]

Also, recommend hiring someone to help with the household chores.

It's good that your daughter helps. Know 4 & 7 year olds who do a variety of daily tasks. They also exercise with their parents.

"A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones." (Pro 17:22).
In "God's Prescription Book," written by a Christian neurosurgeon, Dr Avery Jackson, there is a chapter on laughter. He makes himself laugh 10 times a day. Our bodies can't distinguish between an authentic and fake laughter. Among other benefits, a merry heart improves our immune system. Would ramp up the praise for our Lord, our spouses and our kids.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Have been married for approx 15 years, first (and ONLY! marriage). Absolutely love my wife to bits and would give my life for her within a second. We have a wonderful daughter who is the joy of my life and am thankful for God brining them into my life.

Background
First i would like to say that my wife and I are VERY much aligned ideologically. And though she may not practice much of what she believes in she is very much ideologically in line with me, and me with her. You would think this would help with not having arguments...but it doesnt. We both are staunchly opposed to schooling, feminism, leftism and in general even the State as a whole due to its reliance on coercion (for another forum). We believe in Jesus Christ and long for his return . And for the most part even our theology is heavily aligned. I dont know of any other couple that is more aligned ideologically tbh...
Yet inspite of our strong alignment, we have massive struggles, arguments etc. My wife struggles from abandonment and lack of attachment from quite possible a young age and i think this has had major implications on our marriage. She has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. She is very depressed. VERY.
I come from a strong line of Christians over multiple generations and will NEVER give up on her though this also means im likely more of a "just make the right choice" type personality (Secure christians can be a bit "harsh" like this) and she is the first evangelical in what i think is 4 generations (also the first to make it past 30 without divorce). I do believe the devil is with strong intention trying to take her down (and me with her, though he wont be able to Jesus got me)

I make an ok living (~240k annual). Am reasonably fit, keep myself in ok shape (lean muscle, no fat), lead the fam and help out where i can. I use the term "lead" loosely because is someone a leader if there are no followers? And in this case if my wife doesnt follow, then no matter what leader qualities i have or dont have i am by practical definition not a leader. I'm told (even by my wife) that women like a leader. as an ENTJ this comes naturally to me to take on the commander type leadership role and have always excelled in this area and most of what i put my hand to (though clearly not marriage), rising quickly in any job scene.

I will say that i dont get that intimate with her more recently especially but thats not for lack of desire!! (my wife is also flippin HOT though she doesnt think so ) but the reality is from a lot of what she says, she hates my guts, often verbally calling for my death, even in front of our daughter, saying she would rather be with other men (i think she says this to hurt me not because she actually wants it, she hates adultery and impurity with a passion...ironically...). So i dont get the sense that she intends well for us or really wants me. For me to pursue intimacy in this context seems disrespectful tbh and downright rude.
Though perhaps once a month when the hormones have shifted to the "right zone" she "likes" me ...

Basically with all her hate towards feminism it seems she cant help align with some of the feminist behaviour that culture has surrounded her in. Ideologically we are together. But practically.... we arent....

Discussion Points and Questions
1. Practicality - i do most of the housework. I cook, clean, do washing, vacuum tidy etc. Not 100% of the time but a solid 80%+. In fact after being told over and over it wasnt true i thought i was starting to get deluded so i tracked the data for a good few months (and believe me i would hope to be wrong!!). It ended up being worse than i had thought. The reality is my wife lacks motivation to do any of it. My day starts early, i work (from home most of the time) and then im done and get straight into cooking and cleaning, and interacting with my daughter on her unschooling life. I am very grateful and appreciate that my wife will still drive my daughter to a few specific activities but if she didnt i would do that too. Somedays i feel a little bit like a single dad. And it GRATES me to no end when i hear women talking about how their husband doesnt do much!!.... QUESTION: How am i suppose to get my wife to help out? I think my body will handle this for years to come but i dont know,.. moreover im concerned my daughter will learn from this priviledged type state where the father/husband does jsut about everything and the women sit back and benefit off it. And then you hear women complain about the patriarchy.....

2. Worship - getting my wife to church has been incredibly difficult. Again, not for lack of ideology. but because the sense of community and connection isnt there in her mind. She has what i would call a grass-is-greener mentality, that if we just try the next church around the corner after all there's 100s around! That she would find some connection. its solution by numbers/probability. We have church hopped a few times and ultimately ive put my foot down and locked us in for the moment. This partly for my daughter's sake who likes the stability and is getting to know the church a bit more, enjoys the kids program and is learning (she learns a tonne more at home though tbh...im the home preacher with my ramblings about scripture, philosophy and hermaneutics). QUESTION: Do i keep pushing even though it is showing signs of her just not going? My daughter will stick to her mother (fear that her mother might disapear, i think based on an event in the past when she was very little, where she did just get up jump out of the parked car and took off) so if she stops my daughter will stop. Every church we have attended eventually after 3-6months there is enough fall out (differeing opinion, sense of being judged, whether real or not, that makes my wife want to leave). The issue i see is that she has a leaky bucket, her parents didnt give her the love and attachment she needed and now connecting with others is incredibly difficult. Moving churches i dont think will solve this.

3. Marriage - honestly dont know what to say but ...help? Any ideas? Suggestions? "Have you sat down and discussed abc...." btw is not a solution. This requires two reasonably stable, sane people who can have adult conversation. I can have far more contreversial differing heavily opionated conversation with my daughter and its wonderful and even fun then a slight deviation of opinion with my wife. She says she doesnt mind people having different opinions but i think she reads differing opinions as judgements against her. Part of the issue is my wife and I are both intellectuals by personality traits. She's INTJ and im ENTJ. However due to insecurities from her child hood and i think also as a woman the delivery of information is just as important (if not more) than the actual content. The concept that truth isnt as important as the delivery is a saddening thought and i think a constant issue in todays societies of broken insecure people. Thats why the term "snowflake" came about.

Anyway thats my speel. Appreciate your guys thoughts, comments and prayers!

ps. btw if anyone wondering why she is with me still?
1. I make all the money...money is so powerful, its ridiculously sad and pathetic but it is what it is. If she still wants dresses, healthy good food, holidays, just to survive then she needs me. Her earning potential is quite low. (Her mothering and nurturing potential is very high!! Man people need to praise mothers more often...best role in the world for a woman and my wife agress lol yet wheres the practice....)
2. For our daughters sake (she sometimes says in a fit of anger once shes of x age then ill leave).
3. She fears judgement from the christian community?
4. Maybe she still intends well for me and maybe theres a glimmer of hope that she hopes one day things will be better?

"she hates my guts, "
WHY?
Blessings.

 

[Larniavc]

Have been married for approx 15 years, first (and ONLY! marriage). Absolutely love my wife to bits and would give my life for her within a second. We have a wonderful daughter who is the joy of my life and am thankful for God brining them into my life.

Background
First i would like to say that my wife and I are VERY much aligned ideologically. And though she may not practice much of what she believes in she is very much ideologically in line with me, and me with her. You would think this would help with not having arguments...but it doesnt. We both are staunchly opposed to schooling, feminism, leftism and in general even the State as a whole due to its reliance on coercion (for another forum). We believe in Jesus Christ and long for his return . And for the most part even our theology is heavily aligned. I dont know of any other couple that is more aligned ideologically tbh...
Yet inspite of our strong alignment, we have massive struggles, arguments etc. My wife struggles from abandonment and lack of attachment from quite possible a young age and i think this has had major implications on our marriage. She has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. She is very depressed. VERY.
I come from a strong line of Christians over multiple generations and will NEVER give up on her though this also means im likely more of a "just make the right choice" type personality (Secure christians can be a bit "harsh" like this) and she is the first evangelical in what i think is 4 generations (also the first to make it past 30 without divorce). I do believe the devil is with strong intention trying to take her down (and me with her, though he wont be able to Jesus got me)

I make an ok living (~240k annual). Am reasonably fit, keep myself in ok shape (lean muscle, no fat), lead the fam and help out where i can. I use the term "lead" loosely because is someone a leader if there are no followers? And in this case if my wife doesnt follow, then no matter what leader qualities i have or dont have i am by practical definition not a leader. I'm told (even by my wife) that women like a leader. as an ENTJ this comes naturally to me to take on the commander type leadership role and have always excelled in this area and most of what i put my hand to (though clearly not marriage), rising quickly in any job scene.

I will say that i dont get that intimate with her more recently especially but thats not for lack of desire!! (my wife is also flippin HOT though she doesnt think so ) but the reality is from a lot of what she says, she hates my guts, often verbally calling for my death, even in front of our daughter, saying she would rather be with other men (i think she says this to hurt me not because she actually wants it, she hates adultery and impurity with a passion...ironically...). So i dont get the sense that she intends well for us or really wants me. For me to pursue intimacy in this context seems disrespectful tbh and downright rude.
Though perhaps once a month when the hormones have shifted to the "right zone" she "likes" me ...

Basically with all her hate towards feminism it seems she cant help align with some of the feminist behaviour that culture has surrounded her in. Ideologically we are together. But practically.... we arent....

Discussion Points and Questions
1. Practicality - i do most of the housework. I cook, clean, do washing, vacuum tidy etc. Not 100% of the time but a solid 80%+. In fact after being told over and over it wasnt true i thought i was starting to get deluded so i tracked the data for a good few months (and believe me i would hope to be wrong!!). It ended up being worse than i had thought. The reality is my wife lacks motivation to do any of it. My day starts early, i work (from home most of the time) and then im done and get straight into cooking and cleaning, and interacting with my daughter on her unschooling life. I am very grateful and appreciate that my wife will still drive my daughter to a few specific activities but if she didnt i would do that too. Somedays i feel a little bit like a single dad. And it GRATES me to no end when i hear women talking about how their husband doesnt do much!!.... QUESTION: How am i suppose to get my wife to help out? I think my body will handle this for years to come but i dont know,.. moreover im concerned my daughter will learn from this priviledged type state where the father/husband does jsut about everything and the women sit back and benefit off it. And then you hear women complain about the patriarchy.....

2. Worship - getting my wife to church has been incredibly difficult. Again, not for lack of ideology. but because the sense of community and connection isnt there in her mind. She has what i would call a grass-is-greener mentality, that if we just try the next church around the corner after all there's 100s around! That she would find some connection. its solution by numbers/probability. We have church hopped a few times and ultimately ive put my foot down and locked us in for the moment. This partly for my daughter's sake who likes the stability and is getting to know the church a bit more, enjoys the kids program and is learning (she learns a tonne more at home though tbh...im the home preacher with my ramblings about scripture, philosophy and hermaneutics). QUESTION: Do i keep pushing even though it is showing signs of her just not going? My daughter will stick to her mother (fear that her mother might disapear, i think based on an event in the past when she was very little, where she did just get up jump out of the parked car and took off) so if she stops my daughter will stop. Every church we have attended eventually after 3-6months there is enough fall out (differeing opinion, sense of being judged, whether real or not, that makes my wife want to leave). The issue i see is that she has a leaky bucket, her parents didnt give her the love and attachment she needed and now connecting with others is incredibly difficult. Moving churches i dont think will solve this.

3. Marriage - honestly dont know what to say but ...help? Any ideas? Suggestions? "Have you sat down and discussed abc...." btw is not a solution. This requires two reasonably stable, sane people who can have adult conversation. I can have far more contreversial differing heavily opionated conversation with my daughter and its wonderful and even fun then a slight deviation of opinion with my wife. She says she doesnt mind people having different opinions but i think she reads differing opinions as judgements against her. Part of the issue is my wife and I are both intellectuals by personality traits. She's INTJ and im ENTJ. However due to insecurities from her child hood and i think also as a woman the delivery of information is just as important (if not more) than the actual content. The concept that truth isnt as important as the delivery is a saddening thought and i think a constant issue in todays societies of broken insecure people. Thats why the term "snowflake" came about.

Anyway thats my speel. Appreciate your guys thoughts, comments and prayers!

ps. btw if anyone wondering why she is with me still?
1. I make all the money...money is so powerful, its ridiculously sad and pathetic but it is what it is. If she still wants dresses, healthy good food, holidays, just to survive then she needs me. Her earning potential is quite low. (Her mothering and nurturing potential is very high!! Man people need to praise mothers more often...best role in the world for a woman and my wife agress lol yet wheres the practice....)
2. For our daughters sake (she sometimes says in a fit of anger once shes of x age then ill leave).
3. She fears judgement from the christian community?
4. Maybe she still intends well for me and maybe theres a glimmer of hope that she hopes one day things will be better?

What kind of therapy is accessing for her personality disorder?

 

[jmz]

"she hates my guts, "
WHY?
Blessings.

number of reasons:
1. Im someone she knows will never reject her and she often takes her anger and hatred at the world and people out on me (sometimes my daughter though im fairly quick to turn it to me to protect her). She has told me she knows i will never leave. This only gives her more guilt
2. As a very secure Christian ive tended to be a persevering push-on-through type and often am quite optimistic to her. This sounds good to some people but ive learnt over the pass that for those who are really struggling in life this can sound a bit like "youll be fine! Jesus will come through for us! Just smile and lift your head up! Hope is round the corner" and all that kinda positive stuff. I guess it doesnt sound as understanding? That is not always helpful for people suffering from abandonment. In fact it can make them feel even worse. Ive toned this down a fair bit. But its a challengen without joining her and increasing the depression. Its a tricky balance. But i think this has played a part as well
3. I havent sorted out her social life for her.
4. I havent sorted out <insert thing that she feels she lacks>
5. At certain times in the month she thinks i hate her/thinks shes ugly etc. VERY low self esteem not to mention i do think there is a level of Satanic attack. We both have had very strong prophetic workings in the past. This has really taken a hit on us.
6. Important to note! She at other times doesnt hate my guts..its chop and change with BPD. One day you are the knight in shining armour and they have placed you way up high on a pedastal, and next minute the pedastal has been pulled out from under you and you are being beat with it

Could be more reasons. Im not perfect by far! And i have at times raised my voice in frustration . Am learning to control this. Im generally a pretty humouros person. But as a result i do make light of potentially serious situations (partly cos i know God is ultimately in control). I also really enjoy an intellectaul debate! And often have wonderful excited discussions with my guy mates and my daughter. But the reality is this can sometimes come across as quiet intense for her.

 

[jmz]

Also, recommend hiring someone to help with the household chores.

It's good that your daughter helps. Know 4 & 7 year olds who do a variety of daily tasks. They also exercise with their parents.

"A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones." (Pro 17:22).
In "God's Prescription Book," written by a Christian neurosurgeon, Dr Avery Jackson, there is a chapter on laughter. He makes himself laugh 10 times a day. Our bodies can't distinguish between an authentic and fake laughter. Among other benefits, a merry heart improves our immune system. Would ramp up the praise for our Lord, our spouses and our kids.

Yeah we talked about hiring but she was pretty adamant against it :/ just because it would remind her of "how useless she is as a wife" etc... even though its not that at all.
And to be honest i would prefer not this route. Im not so concerned for myself. Im high energy and... "i can do this all day" lol!!

I have just seen the times she does pick up on chores she is so over the moon pleased with herself haha. Its just getting to that point is so hard for her. Just how to help get over that initial hurdle.

Yeah when my daughter helps out its very heart warming .

Laughter is so good. I have a small group of male friends i meet with (in person when they are in town) and every day on online chat and we have a running joke about how if one of us is getting exceptionall funny on that day then that guy must be down .

 

[jmz]

What kind of therapy is accessing for her personality disorder?

Not a lot if you have any recommendations even online that would be amazing. We were fortunate to meet with one of the world's leading experts on BPD. He was awesome and we got to meet him in person when he was touring our country. But those video calls stopped unfortunately. Have been looking ever since.

A lot of counsellors and therapists run a mile as soon as you mention BPD.

And prayer! That's the other therapy.