STILL no actual evidence FOR creation

[SLP]

Been gone for a bit, but I see that there is still no evidence for creation presented, just attacks on evolution.

The reason cannot be more obvious.

 

[HitchSlap]

Yep. The DI went on sabbatical.

 

[AV1611VET]

Been gone for a bit, but I see that there is still no evidence for creation presented, just attacks on evolution.

The reason cannot be more obvious.

Correct.

No evidence was generated.

We call it a "miracle."

 

[In situ]

Correct.

No evidence was generated.

We call it a "miracle."

Can you present any scientific evidence as to when and where this "miracle" happen? If not, why should anyone, including yourself, take a claim of a "miracle" serious?

 

[AwakeInTheMatrix]

Been gone for a bit, but I see that there is still no evidence for creation presented, just attacks on evolution.

The reason cannot be more obvious.

Why is evolution not more demonstrable? In an era where doctors can grow noses on foreheads, why can't scientists evolve or devolve anything?

 

[AV1611VET]

Can you present any scientific evidence as to when and where this "miracle" happen? If not, why should anyone, including yourself, take a claim of a "miracle" serious?

It happened in the beginning, and it happened here.

I cannot provide any scientific evidence of that.

I take that claim seriously because it's in the Bible, which I take seriously.

 

[In situ]

Why is evolution not more demonstrable? In an era where doctors can grow noses on foreheads, why can't scientists evolve or devolve anything?

Sometime it takes proper knowledge (education) to understand the evidence. Whatever the case is, what is it you think has not been properly demonstrated?

 

[AwakeInTheMatrix]

Sometime it takes proper knowledge (education) to understand the evidence. Whatever the case is, what is it you think has not been properly demonstrated?

I'm of the mind that the orderliness of the universe, the earth, and the exclusivity of the species within it speaks to intelligent design. So, I would expect that a counter-argument would be able to demonstrate that degree of orderliness spontaneously produced from chaos. Or that an organism could be triggered to either further evolve, or to devolve into a future/previous stage in their evolutionary process.

 

[In situ]

It happened in the beginning, and it happened here.

A non answer, since it is obvious follows it must be so.

I cannot provide any scientific evidence of that.

But isn't there some form of indication you might call evidence? For instance is there any indication of the creation of animal and plant kinds, be it not scientific, which you would regard as evidence for the miracle?

I take that claim seriously because it's in the Bible, which I take seriously.

If that is the only reason then the claim that a miracle has occurred can be safely ignored.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I see that there is still no evidence for creation

Creation is the evidence. We need to study Creation with tools provided by Science. Like the Hubble Space Satellite Camera.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Can you present any scientific evidence as to when and where this "miracle" happen?

The Big Bang is actually an adaptation of Kabbalism by Max Planck. Although Fred Hoyle actually coined the term. Around 1,000 years ago both Maimonides (Rambam) and Nachmanides (Ramban) state that neither space nor time existed prior to the creation. http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=933

"Observations by the NASA/ESA Hubble Space Telescope have taken advantage of gravitational lensing to reveal the largest sample of the faintest and earliest known galaxies in the universe. Some of these galaxies formed just 600 million years after the big bang and are fainter than any other galaxy yet uncovered by Hubble. The team has determined for the first time with some confidence that these small galaxies were vital to creating the universe that we see today."

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/hubble-spies-big-bang-frontiers

This evidence pretty well indicates when and where this "miracle" happened. Based on the Hubble Space Telescope.

 

[In situ]

would be able to demonstrate that degree of orderliness spontaneously produced from chaos. Or that an organism could be triggered to either further evolve, or to devolve into a future/previous stage in their evolutionary process

Salt crystallization is a trivial example of how order spontaneously arise from chaos. Proteins folding is a quite complicated example. It has been written quite extensive in the literature about this subject for about 50 years now, and there exists theories that deals with what been observed. It is generally know as self-organization, and have implication in unsupervised machine learning and AI.

The subject of evolving was first treated extensively by Darwin in The Origin of Species, and subsequently been refined in detail by biologist for the past 150 years. What consider "devolving", in the sense to revert to a ancestral stage, the theory, as far as I understand it, forbids that to happen.

 

[AV1611VET]

A non answer, since it is obvious follows it must be so.

Wow.

Let's try this:

It happened in 4004 BC, and it happened in the hollow of God's hand.

Isaiah 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

How's that for being more specific?

But isn't there some form of indication you might call evidence?

Yes ... faith.

Hebrews 1:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[In situ]

The Big Bang is actually an adaptation of Kabbalism by Max

Yea.. .whatever...

About the picture you posted, it is not clear to me where the evidence for a miracle in the picture is. That is, what exactly is it you suggest to be evidence of a miracale in this picture?

 

[In situ]

It happened in 4004 BC, and it happened in the hollow of God's hand. How's that for being more specific?

That is quite good I have to say, but on what ground is that year picked for the miracle, is that faith as well?

Yes ... faith.

If based on faith, does that means you are open to alternative faith believes other than a miracle?

 

[joshua 1 9]

For instance is there any indication of the creation of animal and plant kinds, be it not scientific, which you would regard as evidence for the miracle?

There are lots and lots of beginnings. Plants come before animals. The plant is able to take the energy from the sun and the elements from the ground. According to the Snow Ball Earth theory: First God needed to separate light and darkness. Then God needed to separate the water from the dry land. God established the laws of thermodynamics: Hot and Cold. Then we could have a beginning of plants. Of course somewhere along the way you have the great oxygenation event. Which in and of itself is a beginning.

God knows the end from the beginning. He is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Rev 22:11

For us the beginning is to establish a covenant with God. If we do not establish a covenant with God then we can not expect to receive anything from God. So even in our relationship with God there has to be a beginning, an agreement. Very little is accomplished between believers and non believers because there is no beginning and there is no agreement. They may use the same words but they use a different dictionary and the same word have a different meaning.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Yea.. .whatever...

About the picture you posted, it is not clear to me where the evidence for a miracle in the piciture is. That is what excatly is you suggest to be evidence of a mircale in this picture?

The picture is not the "miracle". This is as close as we can get to the place and the time that the "miracle" took place. The "miracle" itself was the creation of time and space. Science agrees with Kabbalism that there was a beginning of time and space. AV is saying that the beginning is a miracle. People like Francis Collins says that the beginning was when God spoke and the Language of God is DNA. From AV's perspective perhaps you could say the beginning was the establishment of the natural laws and this is how the universe began or was Created. He considers this to be a miracle. Just how God created the natural laws is a question that Kabbalism does address. As AV will tell you this is actually based on the same language that God uses when He wrote the Bible. Your not that interested in Religion so I am sure your not wanting to go this deep into the whole thing.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is quite good I have to say, but on what ground is that year picked for the miracle, is that faith as well?

Daisy-chaining the genealogies throughout the Bible leads to APPROXIMATELY 4004 BC.

That's close enough to use as a blueprint for occurrences in Biblical history.

If based on faith, does that means you are open to alternative faith believes other than a miracle?

No.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I take that claim seriously because it's in the Bible, which I take seriously.

What came first the Universe or the Bible?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Daisy-chaining the genealogies throughout the Bible leads to APPROXIMATELY 4004 BC.

They have no clue as to what happened in 4004 BC. I really do not think they are even interested in knowing.