Speaking out on Marriage

Aug 27, 2012
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she is very much believes in and supports the teachings of the Church on marriage.

She may have an opinion about how to engage with the secular world on this issue, but that should not be interpreted as a departure from the Church's teaching. her husband, Fr Gregory is representing Metropolitan Joseph at the March for Marriage this Saturday in DC
 
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gzt

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Though I would just say that, while I pretty much agree with her and I agree with you that this is not a departure from Church teaching, there are a lot of people, including on this board, that think that anything less than a scorched earth in response to the homosexual marriage threat is Renovationism, Sergianism, the panheresy of ecumenism, and all that jazz.
 
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"there are a lot of people, including on this board, that think that anything less than a scorched earth in response to the homosexual marriage threat is Renovationism, Sergianism, the panheresy of ecumenism, and all that jazz."

Lol! yes this is so true!
 
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Wanderlust Pilgrim

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a very well stated article. it is pretty troubling that gay marriage seems to be the ONLY kind of sexual perversion that the religious right focuses on. all that perversion must be fought.

My take on it is that people should leave other alone and that people struggling with sexual perversions should seek help and that said people shouldn't be held to the same standard as a Christian, Jew or Muslim. They either don't believe or worship The Lord of All and or they are just suffering from sort of metal health issue which should be taken to a licensed psychiatrist who has the skill set to hands it. The golden rule needs a comeback.
 
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gzt

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There's also something to be said about the progressive revelation of the Law and how much of revelation we should enforce. The Christian ideal of the New Testament is different (and more strict in some ways - cf polygamy) than The Law revealed to Moses, which is more strict than the commandments given to Noah which are held to be for all the human race. Civil law certainly shouldn't enforce constraints against divorce when the Mosaic law allowed for it, despite well-considered Christian disapproval. The nations are a law unto themselves, but our ideas of what that law are might not always be what we think.
 
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ArmyMatt

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My take on it is that people should leave other alone and that people struggling with sexual perversions should seek help and that said people shouldn't be held to the same standard as a Christian, Jew or Muslim. They either don't believe or worship The Lord of All and or they are just suffering from sort of metal health issue which should be taken to a licensed psychiatrist who has the skill set to hands it. The golden rule needs a comeback.

oh I am not talking about holding them to an Orthodox standard, but hopefully to let them know of Orthodoxy so they will get the healing of soul they need (as we all do).
 
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rusmeister

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There's also something to be said about the progressive revelation of the Law and how much of revelation we should enforce. The Christian ideal of the New Testament is different (and more strict in some ways - cf polygamy) than The Law revealed to Moses, which is more strict than the commandments given to Noah which are held to be for all the human race. Civil law certainly shouldn't enforce constraints against divorce when the Mosaic law allowed for it, despite well-considered Christian disapproval. The nations are a law unto themselves, but our ideas of what that law are might not always be what we think.

I'll say what is to be said about "the progressive revelation of the Law". The idea that revelation is continuing to progress is not Orthodox. Christ has come to this world and given it the Ultimate revelation. There will be no new revelation changing our understandings of things, and it is heretical to think otherwise. Dogma clarifies established truth; it doesn't add or discover new truth.

The Christian ideal is more strict in every way, as it means we are to strive to not merely follow a set of laws and then be a-OK, but to strive to become like Christ Himself. Love your enemy and turn the other cheek is more difficult than simple dietary restrictions or even OT rules on sex and marriage.

Civil law can be whatever people manage to make of it. If we can manage to make the law Christian, then divorce ought to be difficult. The Christian ideal is to not divorce at all. Ever. For any reason. Yes, Christ allowed the exception. But again, not as the ideal, but as the allowance for the hardness of our hearts. But if civil law may reflect Christian morality on what is allowed, divorce will STILL be difficult, and generally speaking, only for infidelity.

As to what we should enforce, we should teach people what marriage is meant to be, and law will reflect that. It's no good teaching that marriage is an indissoluable union and then say that in civil life, people may do whatever they want. Let them think more carefully about getting married. People need the guidance of Tradition and wise law, that proceeds from a thing that knows better than they what is good for them. And for their children, about whom we are so quick to forget in all these discussions.

In general morality, as opposed to worship and practice, if we DO have power in society, as rulers, either through being a monarch, tsar, or president, or if the vote actually represents power (which it most often does not), then we OUGHT to demand law that actually supports morality. It's not forcing Christian faith to tell people they must obey a particular moral code in law, that they may be punished for cursing or drunkenness or lewdness in public. Even Caesar could legitimately tax people; he just had no right to force worship.
 
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Kristos

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Hmmm...

I surprised how many of you agree with her and her epigram "live and let live".

She believes that gay sex is damaging to the soul and compares it to smoking. Most people don't go around telling people to stop smoking (she says), but ironically not many would say that nothing should be done about it - in fact very much has been done to help people stop smoking and even dissuade them from smoking through taxes etc. So the analogy doesn't make much sense to me. So what does this epigram really mean - "live and let live"? As a society we should not care what is good? Are we saying that there is some sort of "force field" around the gay wedding bed that confines it from negatively impacting anything outside that context? This seems to be what she is saying when she says that the sodomy occurring next door doesn't have any effect on the neighborhood and therefore we shouldn't care...
I don’t care what other people do in bed

But what does it mean to care? To care means to love - and if you love your fellow man how can you say that you don't care - "live and let live" is a epigram for not caring and therefore not loving.
 
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Again I'm giving you first hand knowledge from someone who knows her personally and goes to her parish.

She absolutely does care about people and their souls, but it will do no good to try to legislate away the allowance to marry someone of your own gender.

What we have to do as Orthodox is to start actually living the Orthodox life, start supporting couples and families within the Church rather than just spitting out enclycicals from time to time. I also think we really need to re-evaluate how we approach divorce and contraception.
 
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as for smoking, some people do believe we shouldn't do anything about other people smoking and that its completely their right to smoke if they want to. They think the government has already infringed too much on peoples private lives in regards to all the restrictions on smoking.

Does it really help people to stop smoking if you legislate every move someone makes? The same question can be asked about homosexuality.

We need to engage and reach out and evangelize the world around us, but it has to go beyond politics and legislation.
 
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