What you say is true, but I've been trying to point out two or three particularly misleading arguments used by the #NeverSolaScriptura folks.Michael Collum said:@Albion - It's hard to say what is a myth and what isn't from this far along in the timeline, the Gospel of John didn't even appear in the writings of the church fathers until the second century, which explains the way it was written. (as if not to the original audience, and insinuations John would be kept alive until the end)
God sent the apostles to teach us, so it seems that their words are far more valuable than any other. I would like to know where the non SS folks get their doctrine. I know the Catholics believe in Church fathers, but where do posters like Michael Collum get their doctrine if not from scripture? Are they reading some new age theology written by some supposed prophet? I don't mean to pick on Michael, but he is the only poster off hand that I can refer to as an example.Ditto.
It's the (written) Word of God.
And we're supposed to test everything, and Scripture stands the test.
In short, how do the "against SS" folks know what the Apostles said and taught that is not in Scripture--and how could they know it?God sent the apostles to teach us, so it seems that their words are far more valuable than any other. I would like to know where the non SS folks get their doctrine.
True.... I was into the now obviously false "soul sleep' theory back when I had a Sola Scriptura approach.Sola Scriptura is overrated, the first christians didn't need it so neither do we.
That's what Scripture says, isn't it?To state my position clearly: I believe that the Bible is the 'inspired Word of God'. But just 'reading it' is not able to reveal God's 'truth'. It takes the guidance and conviction of the Holy Spirit to reveal 'the truth' contained within it's pages.
For me it comes down to what you consider more authoritative, the inspired word of God, or Church traditions and teachings. For me the Bible will always be of higher authority.
For me it comes down to what you consider more authoritative, the inspired word of God, or Church traditions and teachings.
For me the Bible will always be of higher authority.
Unfortunately there is just too much in church traditions and teachings that contradicts the word of God.
But the early Fathers cited Scripture for their teachings and knew nothing of the theory called
"Holy Tradition."
Amen. Their tradition begins with a small t and is defined as heresy.Actually 'Sola Scriptura' is a 'doctrine' itself. I don't think I'm confused as to the 'meaning' of the doctrine. It is basically a doctrine that means that the ultimate authority in 'understanding' of doctrine, dogma, faith, belief, 'God's Word', is 'scripture'. That the Bible itself is the ultimate authority when it comes to 'truth'.
But then comes 'personal interpretation'. Which we are forbidden to use in determining the 'truth' contained within 'scripture'.
So if we are 'not' to use personal interpretation, where does that leave us? It leaves us with the Holy Spirit to guide us in 'understanding' scripture. And how do we determine who is or who isn't being led by the Holy Spirit when interpreting the scriptures? Fruit. We can witness the 'fruit' produced by those that tell us what they 'believe' the scriptures to reveal. We can judge the 'fruit' of their very words used to divide God's Word.
In order to actually understand a single verse of the Bible, one must compare it to all others in order to 'see' if it conforms to or 'rejects' any other line of the Bible. And how often are those that 'read in' the Bible going to have such ability? Not many. Yet 'many' would try to 'tell' others what scripture reveals in 'truth'. With absolutely 'no authority', many 'pretend' to be 'experts' when they have nothing other than completely limited understanding if 'any'.
I am well aware of the 'term': Sola Scriptura. And I believe I have a pretty sound understanding of what it 'means' and how it came to be. The Catholic Church created it as a derogatory 'label' against those that placed their faith in 'scripture' rather than 'their church'. And to this day they still insist that their 'tradition' is more important then the Bible.
Blessings,
MEC