Socialism, Atheism and Apathetic Christians

[clirus]

Nope, there was no one key event that made me lose my faith, I just kind of outgrew it. Then as I started to think more and more about it, I realised there is no God.

What would it take to prove there was God?

 

[Ayersy]

What would it take to prove there was God?

Clear, conclusive, visible evidence, with more than a few witnesses who didn't know each other. If God is apparently as powerful as everyone seems to think he is, he should have no problems re-arranging the stars to spell out "I am God, make me a sandwich." or something along those lines. Even simply appearing in the sky and reading out the 10 commandments would do the job, since everyone would see it, and hear it, from all walks of life.

It seems he'd rather rely on an outdated and oftentimes vague book to convince us to believe in him though.

 

[Wolseley]

Seems kind of a funny way to run a universe.

I used to think that way, too---and in fact, I finally decided that I could do a better job. (I was about 24 or so at the time...you know the age. (sigh) )

Anyways, I showed up one day at the corporate headquarters and announced that from now on, the whole shebang was going to be under new management. The angel who was on the desk that day smiled and listened as I outlined all of this for him, then he explained to me that the position was already filled, and the Incumbent was elected for eternity. In other words, I was out of luck.

Still, I persisted. I told the angel that the way things were being run was totally screwy, and I could do a better job at running the universe. The angel told me a story about a bacteria colony trying to understand nuclear physics, and I got a little huffy and told him not to patronize me. He sighed, picked up the phone, and made a short call, listened for a moment, and then told me that God had challenged me to a short duel for control of the universe.

Next thing I knew, I was standing in the middle of a muddy plain on a desolate planet. I looked up and there was God about ten feet away from me. He smiled and said, "Hi! Welcome to Earth, at its very beginning. For the purposes of this exercise, I've given you all the scientific knowledge that mankind possesses. The goal is to create life from a handful of dirt. Whoever manages to do it successfully, wins. You go first."

Flexing my newly-acquired knowledge of genetics, microbiology, bio-engineering, et al, I said, "No problem," and scooped up a handful of dirt.

God held up a hand and said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa----not so fast, Einstein. You go make your own dirt. This dirt is Mine. I made it. It belongs to Me."

I stood there trying to figure out just how to do this, when I heard a timer go off, and I ended up back in the reception area looking at the angel, who smiled at me kindly and gave me some informational brochures to read on the elevator trip back down. I finally decided it was probably a good thing that I hadn't won. You have to have a pretty strong constitution to be God.

For one thing, your constituents expect you to do everything; they won't lift a finger for themselves half the time, and whatever goes wrong, they blame it on you. On Sunday mornings, they come in to your house, real early, and sing real loud, off key and out of tune. You can talk to them for centuries, but they never do anything you tell them, even when it's for their own good, and then when things go wrong they whine about it because they're too thick to understand that it was their screwups that brought about the negative turn of events to begin with, not you. Further, if you think unions here are bad, wait 'till you've dealt with Local 666.

I decided that even if I had gotten the job, I would have resigned immediately.

 

[Ayersy]

I used to think that way, too---and in fact, I finally decided that I could do a better job. (I was about 24 or so at the time...you know the age. (sigh) )

Anyways, I showed up one day at the corporate headquarters and announced that from now on, the whole shebang was going to be under new management. The angel who was on the desk that day smiled and listened as I outlined all of this for him, then he explained to me that the position was already filled, and the Incumbent was elected for eternity. In other words, I was out of luck.

Still, I persisted. I told the angel that the way things were being run was totally screwy, and I could do a better job at running the universe. The angel told me a story about a bacteria colony trying to understand nuclear physics, and I got a little huffy and told him not to patronize me. He sighed, picked up the phone, and made a short call, listened for a moment, and then told me that God had challenged me to a short duel for control of the universe.

Next thing I knew, I was standing in the middle of a muddy plain on a desolate planet. I looked up and there was God about ten feet away from me. He smiled and said, "Hi! Welcome to Earth, at its very beginning. For the purposes of this exercise, I've given you all the scientific knowledge that mankind possesses. The goal is to create life from a handful of dirt. Whoever manages to do it successfully, wins. You go first."

Flexing my newly-acquired knowledge of genetics, microbiology, bio-engineering, et al, I said, "No problem," and scooped up a handful of dirt.

God held up a hand and said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa----not so fast, Einstein. You go make your own dirt. This dirt is Mine. I made it. It belongs to Me."

I stood there trying to figure out just how to do this, when I heard a timer go off, and I ended up back in the reception area looking at the angel, who smiled at me kindly and gave me some informational brochures to read on the elevator trip back down. I finally decided it was probably a good thing that I hadn't won. You have to have a pretty strong constitution to be God.

For one thing, your constituents expect you to do everything; they won't lift a finger for themselves half the time, and whatever goes wrong, they blame it on you. On Sunday mornings, they come in to your house, real early, and sing real loud, off key and out of tune. You can talk to them for centuries, but they never do anything you tell them, even when it's for their own good, and then when things go wrong they whine about it because they're too thick to understand that it was their screwups that brought about the negative turn of events to begin with, not you. Further, if you think unions here are bad, wait 'till you've dealt with Local 666.

I decided that even if I had gotten the job, I would have resigned immediately.

He seems to take an awful amount of days off, though. As in... all of them. I wish I was allowed that many sick days, and still be able to keep my job!

 

[The Penitent Man]

What would it take to prove there was God?

If a person disbelieves strongly enough, proof of God is impossible. But if a person's faith is strong enough, there will never be a need to prove God.

 

[The Penitent Man]

I used to think that way, too---and in fact, I finally decided that I could do a better job. (I was about 24 or so at the time...you know the age. (sigh) )

Anyways, I showed up one day at the corporate headquarters and announced that from now on, the whole shebang was going to be under new management. The angel who was on the desk that day smiled and listened as I outlined all of this for him, then he explained to me that the position was already filled, and the Incumbent was elected for eternity. In other words, I was out of luck.

Still, I persisted. I told the angel that the way things were being run was totally screwy, and I could do a better job at running the universe. The angel told me a story about a bacteria colony trying to understand nuclear physics, and I got a little huffy and told him not to patronize me. He sighed, picked up the phone, and made a short call, listened for a moment, and then told me that God had challenged me to a short duel for control of the universe.

Next thing I knew, I was standing in the middle of a muddy plain on a desolate planet. I looked up and there was God about ten feet away from me. He smiled and said, "Hi! Welcome to Earth, at its very beginning. For the purposes of this exercise, I've given you all the scientific knowledge that mankind possesses. The goal is to create life from a handful of dirt. Whoever manages to do it successfully, wins. You go first."

Flexing my newly-acquired knowledge of genetics, microbiology, bio-engineering, et al, I said, "No problem," and scooped up a handful of dirt.

God held up a hand and said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa----not so fast, Einstein. You go make your own dirt. This dirt is Mine. I made it. It belongs to Me."

I stood there trying to figure out just how to do this, when I heard a timer go off, and I ended up back in the reception area looking at the angel, who smiled at me kindly and gave me some informational brochures to read on the elevator trip back down. I finally decided it was probably a good thing that I hadn't won. You have to have a pretty strong constitution to be God.

For one thing, your constituents expect you to do everything; they won't lift a finger for themselves half the time, and whatever goes wrong, they blame it on you. On Sunday mornings, they come in to your house, real early, and sing real loud, off key and out of tune. You can talk to them for centuries, but they never do anything you tell them, even when it's for their own good, and then when things go wrong they whine about it because they're too thick to understand that it was their screwups that brought about the negative turn of events to begin with, not you. Further, if you think unions here are bad, wait 'till you've dealt with Local 666.

I decided that even if I had gotten the job, I would have resigned immediately.

Wonderfully clever and amusing little story!

 

[Ayersy]

If a person disbelieves strongly enough, proof of God is impossible. But if a person's faith is strong enough, there will never be a need to prove God.

This is just what you like to believe, but really, if I saw something that was wholly completely impossible to deny, like someone appearing in the sky announcing he was the God of the bible, or something similar, and other people saw and heard it as well, then there's no question I'd grovel right there and repent.

God seems pretty hesitant to actually provide any evidence that he exists, though. A book and some personal testimonies from obviously biased sources are not enough to convince me.

 

[The Penitent Man]

This is just what you like to believe, but really, if I saw something that was wholly completely impossible to deny, like someone appearing in the sky announcing he was the God of the bible, or something similar, and other people saw and heard it as well, then there's no question I'd grovel right there and repent.

God seems pretty hesitant to actually provide any evidence that he exists, though. A book and some personal testimonies from obviously biased sources are not enough to convince me.

That's because your mind has been made up about this for a very long time. Nothing will ever convince you because deep down you depend on your unbelief like Dr. Gregory House depends on his cane.

 

[Ayersy]

That's because your mind has been made up about this for a very long time. Nothing will ever convince you because deep down you depend on your unbelief like Dr. Gregory House depends on his cane.

A rather strange analogy, but I have been compared to House before, so I'll let you have it, though it isn't true.

If there really was visible, audible proof, then I'd have no choice to believe it. I believe in what I can see, touch, or feel. God is none of those, he has been conveniently written in such a way that he doesn't need to be seen, heard, or felt. If he's all powerful, it shouldn't take much for him to simply write a passage from the bible in the stars, or appear in the sky and shout to mankind in a deep bellowing voice. I would then believe wholeheartedly, I'd have no choice but to believe. Until then, though, apart from a book (One of many books), I have nothing to go by.

Though I am quite proud of my 'cane'.

 

[mindlight]

Yes, there is a relationship between the 30 million uninsured Americans and sinfulness when you factor in the data that shows that 40% of the births in America are illegitimate. Most of the 30 million Americans that are uninsured are due to involvement with Adultery.

Your discussions have a tendency to leave out key points of my discussions.

After I correct your distortion, you then come back and accuse me of not providing absolute proof. Absolute proof of anything is as evasive as anything that is absolute.

Even Christians commit sins occasionally. If a mum decides to keep the baby rather than abort that may plunge her into poverty but it was the right choice.

Also some clarification on who the uninsured really are:

https://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf

15.3% of US population lacked health insurance in 2007 - 45.7 m people.
32.1 % of Hispanics
10.4% whites
19.5% Blacks lacked health insurance

Most health insurance was provided by employers and so higher inemployment in the non white ethic groups is a partial explanation.

38m came from metropolitan areas and 20 m from Southern region of USA. _ California, Texas, Florida and New Mexico being the worst states.

In short the strongest link with having no health insurance is with unemployed Hispanics near the border with Mexico. So Hispanics seem the most significant group.

1) more of them are unemployed than with whites.
2) Hispanics on the whole tend to be more religious than the white population (70% Catholics not Protestants 20% and less prone to have abortions)

(http://cara.georgetown.edu/Hispanic Catholics.pdf))

3) They have stronger links with extended families which tend to support each other more than is the case with white families. (http://www.diocesephoenix.org/fc/Ca...hurchDocs/UnderstandingtheHispanicCulture.pdf)

Might be difficult to dismiss the uninsured as adulterous or loose living single mums who decided not to have the abortion and were left stranded by their one night stand. In fact the really evil sinners had the abortion then married a rich white guy and have never worked in their lives but are fully insured through their husbands company. They wait for judgment day for their comeuppance as they do not always get it in this life.

 

[Wolseley]

Wonderfully clever and amusing little story!

Thank you, thank you very much.

 

[Belk]

I used to think that way, too---and in fact, I finally decided that I could do a better job. (I was about 24 or so at the time...you know the age. (sigh) )

Anyways, I showed up one day at the corporate headquarters and announced that from now on, the whole shebang was going to be under new management. The angel who was on the desk that day smiled and listened as I outlined all of this for him, then he explained to me that the position was already filled, and the Incumbent was elected for eternity. In other words, I was out of luck.

Still, I persisted. I told the angel that the way things were being run was totally screwy, and I could do a better job at running the universe. The angel told me a story about a bacteria colony trying to understand nuclear physics, and I got a little huffy and told him not to patronize me. He sighed, picked up the phone, and made a short call, listened for a moment, and then told me that God had challenged me to a short duel for control of the universe.

Next thing I knew, I was standing in the middle of a muddy plain on a desolate planet. I looked up and there was God about ten feet away from me. He smiled and said, "Hi! Welcome to Earth, at its very beginning. For the purposes of this exercise, I've given you all the scientific knowledge that mankind possesses. The goal is to create life from a handful of dirt. Whoever manages to do it successfully, wins. You go first."

Flexing my newly-acquired knowledge of genetics, microbiology, bio-engineering, et al, I said, "No problem," and scooped up a handful of dirt.

God held up a hand and said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa----not so fast, Einstein. You go make your own dirt. This dirt is Mine. I made it. It belongs to Me."

I stood there trying to figure out just how to do this, when I heard a timer go off, and I ended up back in the reception area looking at the angel, who smiled at me kindly and gave me some informational brochures to read on the elevator trip back down. I finally decided it was probably a good thing that I hadn't won. You have to have a pretty strong constitution to be God.

For one thing, your constituents expect you to do everything; they won't lift a finger for themselves half the time, and whatever goes wrong, they blame it on you. On Sunday mornings, they come in to your house, real early, and sing real loud, off key and out of tune. You can talk to them for centuries, but they never do anything you tell them, even when it's for their own good, and then when things go wrong they whine about it because they're too thick to understand that it was their screwups that brought about the negative turn of events to begin with, not you. Further, if you think unions here are bad, wait 'till you've dealt with Local 666.

I decided that even if I had gotten the job, I would have resigned immediately.

How droll. Now tell the one where if you guess wrong you get tortured for eternity. You know, the post I referenced in my quote.

 

[Wolseley]

How droll. Now tell the one where if you guess wrong you get tortured for eternity. You know, the post I referenced in my quote.

That one you gotta figure out for yourself.

 

[Belk]

That one you gotta figure out for yourself.

So it would seem. Ah well.

It matters not how straight the gate, how charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the master of my fate, the captain of my soul.

 

[clirus]

A rather strange analogy, but I have been compared to House before, so I'll let you have it, though it isn't true.

If there really was visible, audible proof, then I'd have no choice to believe it. I believe in what I can see, touch, or feel. God is none of those, he has been conveniently written in such a way that he doesn't need to be seen, heard, or felt. If he's all powerful, it shouldn't take much for him to simply write a passage from the bible in the stars, or appear in the sky and shout to mankind in a deep bellowing voice. I would then believe
wholeheartedly, I'd have no choice but to believe. Until then, though, apart from a book (One of many books), I have nothing to go by.

Though I am quite proud of my 'cane'.

I too wondered why God does make his existence obvious, and why there could be other explanations to the miracles of the Bible.

The conclusion I came to, was that if God was obvious, then there would be no freewill to reject God. Man would then be basically a slave, instead of a person that choose God and loved God.

 

[IzzyPop]

I too wondered why God does make his existence obvious, and why there could be other explanations to the miracles of the Bible.

The conclusion I came to, was that if God was obvious, then there would be no freewill to reject God. Man would then be basically a slave, instead of a person that choose God and loved God.

You would be suprised. Plenty of people ignore the mountains of evidence for evolution. People still think that HIV is God's punishment for homosexuality even though the
evidence shows that more heterosexuals transmit it and female homosexuals have the lowest transmission rate.

 

[Ayersy]

I too wondered why God does make his existence obvious, and why there could be other explanations to the miracles of the Bible.

The conclusion I came to, was that if God was obvious, then there would be no freewill to reject God. Man would then be basically a slave, instead of a person that choose God and loved God.

It's not rejection, it's disbelief, two very different things. I'd still rather be a slave than be punished simply because he can't be bothered to show himself.

 

[clirus]

It's not rejection, it's disbelief, two very different things. I'd still rather be a slave than be punished simply because he can't be bothered to show himself.

But God did show himself by the Bible he inspired and by the people that do accept Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and commit to following the commandments of the Bible.

 

[Ayersy]

But God did show himself by the Bible he inspired and by the people that do accept Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and commit to following the commandments of the Bible.

...But why should we believe the bible? How do we know it's true? Is it because God said so, in which case how do we know God is real, oh yeah, by the bible... but how do we knot that it's true? Oh yeah, because God said so... but then how do we know God is real? Oh yeah, because it's in the bible...

Circular logic is illogical.

 

[jgarden]

I too wondered why God does make his existence obvious, and why there could be other explanations to the miracles of the Bible.

The conclusion I came to, was that if God was obvious, then there would be no freewill to reject God. Man would then be basically a slave, instead of a person that choose God and loved God.

Pardon me while I compliment "clirus" on an insightful post with which I can totally agree.

Halley's Comet is next due to pass earth on about July 28 2061.