Social Justice?

[Rhamiel]

This term seems to be a buzzword among Conservative Catholics, you utter it and they react like a vampire getting splashed with Holy Water

I just had a realization that I do not have a firm grasp of what is even meant by "social justice"

is it separate from individual charity?

is it only focused on justice at an institutional level?

why do so many people want to keep "social justice" devoid of the Gospel?

What are some good orthodox ways to go about encouraging social justice? (not conservative, not liberal, just good ol' Catholic orthodoxy)

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

I think justice and in some ways charity also have to happen on an institutional level. Individual charity is a good thing, mainly for the soul of the giver, but meaningful improvements for the larger problems have to happen on the larger scale.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Catechism of the Catholic Church on Social Justice
Compendium on the Social Doctrine of the Church
"Caritas in veritate" - Encyclical Letter of His Holiness Benedict XVI

 

[Gwendolyn]

Catechism of the Catholic Church on Social Justice
Compendium on the Social Doctrine of the Church
"Caritas in veritate" - Encyclical Letter of His Holiness Benedict XVI

Thank you, LWU! I came here to post precisely this.

When I speak of social justice, I speak of it in the terms in which the Church speaks of it. I do not believe that social justice should be - or really can be - devoid of religion.

Where I differ from the typical American is that I believe the government should be able to legislate social programs and such that support our society. Charities alone have not been able to effectively offer all of the services that would be needed to support a society of our size.

Granted, I do not feel that any government is necessarily a bad force that is out to oppress me and take away my rights. I feel that government can be a positive force in our lives. We vote to enforce morality laws - why not vote for social justice systems, too?

 

[Needing_Grace]

Thank you, LWU! I came here to post precisely this.

When I speak of social justice, I speak of it in the terms in which the Church speaks of it. I do not believe that social justice should be - or really can be - devoid of religion.

Where I differ from the typical American is that I believe the government should be able to legislate social programs and such that support our society. Charities alone have not been able to effectively offer all of the services that would be needed to support a society of our size.

Granted, I do not feel that any government is necessarily a bad force that is out to oppress me and take away my rights. I feel that government can be a positive force in our lives. We vote to enforce morality laws - why not vote for social justice systems, too?

We're on the same page.

 

[Brother Bread]

so who is better. liberal or conservative, with out God they are both futile in their thoughts, words and actions.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Thank you, LWU! I came here to post precisely this.

You're welcome. Since social justice is such a big topic I decided to post links to what the Catholic Church says and let people read it.

 

[Solace Girl]

why do so many people want to keep "social justice" devoid of the Gospel?

From a secular standpoint the "scraps of piety" as Gavroche called them, don't address the causes of poverty, only the symptoms. Historically speaking, churches worked hand-in-hand with the upper-class.

 

[Shadow316]

This term seems to be a buzzword among Conservative Catholics, you utter it and they react like a vampire getting splashed with Holy Water

I just had a realization that I do not have a firm grasp of what is even meant by "social justice"

is it separate from individual charity?

is it only focused on justice at an institutional level?

why do so many people want to keep "social justice" devoid of the Gospel?

it's the progressives cover word for socialism.

yes it IS separate from individual charity. It's not freely given, but forced charity. Not from a cheerful giver.

they don't want the Gospel involved. Didn't those pushing it remove God from their platform?

 

[concretecamper]

The reason social justice makes me twing somewhat is because some Catholics tends to replace Catholic values for social justice issues. For example, why a catholic would ever vote for a pro abortion candidate is beyond my comprehension. But many catholics feel that if a candidate is better on poverty and the environment, it is an even trade off with the life issues.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The reason social justice makes me twing somewhat is because some Catholics tends to replace Catholic values for social justice issues. For example, why a catholic would ever vote for a pro abortion candidate is beyond my comprehension. But many catholics feel that if a candidate is better on poverty and the environment, it is an even trade off with the life issues.

Mr. Pro-Abortion gets elected, the poor stay poor, inflation goes up, and the economy gets worse with more people dropping below the poverty line. Yet the same ones will vote for Mr. Pro-Abortion again in the next election anyway. That's why I think many are being dishonest when they say they are voting for Mr. Pro-Abortion because of the poor. More likely, the ones who vote for Mr. Pro-Abortion do it because they agree with his extreme Pro-Abortion philosophy.

 

[Shadow316]

Mr. Pro-Abortion gets elected, the poor stay poor, inflation goes up, and the economy gets worse with more people dropping below the poverty line. Yet the same ones will vote for Mr. Pro-Abortion again in the next election anyway.

yes. using the words 'social justice' sounds like a good thing, but it isn't. More money going to government isn't getting to the poor who need it or in a way they need it. They don't need 3 free cell phones or food stamps/card they can sell or use for cigs, liquor etc. Making the poor dependent on free STUFF is a deception.

The government takes most of the money to hire people to run the operation, buy themselves fancy office equipment, in a nice building and give them bonuses (like VA and IRS) - another gov operational set up to fail the people. But it pads the accounts of the politicians!

The churches and other ministries have long done a much better job. They show up to help people clean up after a flood/storm, help them rebuild and get them food and shelter while needed. They aren't paying 10 x the needed amount for the supplies needed either (from a company owned by the cousin of a politician). And individuals who care and love the Lord give much more than the average politician.

 

[Rhamiel]

we can argue about how to go about it, but governments have a responsibility to protect people from being abused

we can look back to the early 1900's
the situation for coal miners, how unions were being smashed

laissez faire capitalism is NOT the ideal for a Christian society

we seem to be stuck in this "two party" mindset
with EVERYTHING being treated as "Right" or "Left"

there are more ways then just those two

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The United States government likes to spend millions of dollars a year on various ad campaigns. Imagine if that money went to the poor instead of to the Ad Council.

 

[Tallguy88]

I'm rather fond of Nordic Social Democracy as a model for a just society. From what I've read about it, it's still a mostly unregulated form of capitalism, but with a large social safety net, public pensions, etc.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

Poverty and the environment are also life issues.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Poverty and the environment are also life issues.

That's true. But here's what usually happens:

"At times it happens that those who receive aid become subordinate to the aid-givers, and the poor serve to perpetuate expensive bureaucracies which consume an excessively high percentage of funds intended for development." - Caritas in veritate

And the environmentalists can do more harm than good with their good intentions. An example is the CFL light bulbs that are being proposed for mandatory use by the environmentalists but which pollute the environment with mercury.

 

[Rhamiel]

are you familiar with economic idea of Distributism?
it was favored by both Pope Leo XIII (one of my favorite Popes) and Pope Pius XI

it states that the economy should, as much as possible, be based upon small businesses and family farms, that the means of production should, as much as possible, be spread out among the greatest number of citizens as possible.

this goes on the principle of Subsidiarity, that the smallest unit for a job should be used, for example, it does not make sense for National Defense to be trusted to each individual, or even each town or province, so the smallest unit for that should be National
but on the hand, things like zoning for business and industry are best left up to the city, it would not make sense for the state to interfere with the zoning laws of an individual city, the local government of that town would have more intimate knowledge of the needs of that town, and if they made a mistake, it would be easier for a small group to change the politics of one city then it would be for them to change the politics of an entire nation.

Distributism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Brother Bread]

Good sounds like the spirit is getting to our hearts

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

are you familiar with economic idea of Distributism?
it was favored by both Pope Leo XIII (one of my favorite Popes) and Pope Pius XI

it states that the economy should, as much as possible, be based upon small businesses and family farms, that the means of production should, as much as possible, be spread out among the greatest number of citizens as possible.

this goes on the principle of Subsidiarity, that the smallest unit for a job should be used, for example, it does not make sense for National Defense to be trusted to each individual, or even each town or province, so the smallest unit for that should be National
but on the hand, things like zoning for business and industry are best left up to the city, it would not make sense for the state to interfere with the zoning laws of an individual city, the local government of that town would have more intimate knowledge of the needs of that town, and if they made a mistake, it would be easier for a small group to change the politics of one city then it would be for them to change the politics of an entire nation.

Distributism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've heard ofvit, but I don't see how it works in a heavily populated high tech world. A question I had is what does a Distributionist style commrrcial air travel system look like? I think it's a good idea for a pre industrialized low population society.