Signs and wonders

[shturt678s]

I note David's and your sagacious "spirit" with a small "s".

Old small Jack

 

[Standing Up]

These men are full of new wine. These men are drunk. In such times men will have some way of accounting for the effects of the gospel; and the way is commonly about as wise and rational as this. "To escape the absurdity of acknowledging their own ignorance, they adopted the theory that strong drink can teach languages."—Dr. McLelland. In modern times it has been usual to denominate such scenes fanaticism, or wildfire, or enthusiasm. When men fail in argument, it is common to attempt to confute a doctrine, or bring reproach upon a transaction, by "giving it an ill name." Hence the names Puritan, Quaker, Methodist, etc., were at first given in derision, to account for some remarkable effect of religion on the world. Comp. Mt 11:19; Joh 7:20; 8:48.

-Barnes-

So it continues ...

 

[Seeking Him]

Good scriptures... We can also add how Paul/Saul fell in Acts 9

As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; 4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” 5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, 6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.”

Some people argue that the only times people fell were when Jesus was there 'in person'. I remind the reader that Jesus is still there 'in person' even when we cannot see Him and so that is no argument.
Another weak stance is when people want to know why some fall and some don't. We see in this scripture that Paul/Saul fell, but those with him did not fall, nor did they see what Saul saw.

Funny how some people brush off these facts in the bible

I forgot about the part in the Moses story where he says to Joshua "Are you jealous for my sake?" People can become jealous for the old ways of doing things and want to stop God's moving. Jewels lie hiddden in us that God wants to come out. Gold, silver, jewels. But we should be concerned that some may be building not such good things on the foundation of God's precious temple. And we are that temple! So we should beware that whoever is teaching, leading, imparting, ect. is building correctly upon our foundation. The riches, glory, beauty, and spirituality of heaven.

 

[contango]

There is nothing to say they weren't. Scripture is revealed by the Holy Spirit, not interpreted via the carnal mind which is at enmity with God.

There's also nothing to say they weren't juggling over-ripe bananas while hurling flamingo heads into the crowd with a trebuchet made from cedar branches and painted luminous orange. Should we conclude from this Scriptural silence that vivid orange trebuchets were used?

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Just posting the bare Scriptures so the readers could see for
themselves in light of so many posters trying to "explain it
away".

There really hasn't been anything to 'explain away' so far. Most here have given very cogent answers as to the meaning of the passage. Look at it this way - if you walked into a 'church meeting' and everything was progressing as normal, and all of a sudden your neighbor started speaking Yiddish. Then the Pastor began speaking Low German. Another Elder began speaking Mandarin Chinese. Yet another began speaking Polish. All of this is going on at the same time and you had no training in any of these languages to be able to understand them. You think to yourself "These people must be drunk! In CHURCH no less! What is all this...?" Then, the Pastor stops speaking and in English begins to explain "This is that..."

 

[MoreCoffee]

There's also nothing to say they weren't juggling over-ripe bananas while hurling flamingo heads into the crowd with a trebuchet made from cedar branches and painted luminous orange. Should we conclude from this Scriptural silence that vivid orange trebuchets were used?

Orange being the colour of the house of Orange in the Netherlands

 

[BobRyan]

Good?
Bad?

Examples of?
passed away?

ETA
This thread isn't about "CHASING SIGNS AND WONDERS"
it's asking what signs and wonders might look like...
Are they of God
Are they to be expected? (According to Scripture)
and what might they be.
That sort of thing

Rev 13 points to one form that is bad.

13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

Matt 24

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

 

[HisSparkPlug]

Your post really is utterly clueless isn't it? Peter was correcting the rumor, started by the mockers, that the disciples were drunken babblers when in fact they were speaking in the languages of the foreigners who were listening. Peter's correction lends absolutely no credibility to the mockers' remarks.

ROFLOL.. What RUMOUR? The Word doesn't say it was a "rumour".
Seriously.. these odd attempts to 'explain away' what scripture so clearly says are entertaining to say the least.

I suspect your posts on this matter are simply aimed to detract, which explains why they couldn't possibly be taken seriously by the reader. With that said, it's best we respond to those who are actually serious about their positions.

@ Sunlover - Thank you for posting the entire scripture for all to see for themselves the truth against the very amusing lies & fallacies being told.

Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: “Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. 15 For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day - Acts 2

 

[MoreCoffee]

Your post really is utterly clueless isn't it? Peter was correcting the rumor, started by the mockers, that the disciples were drunken babblers when in fact they were speaking in the languages of the foreigners who were listening. Peter's correction lends absolutely no credibility to the mockers' remarks.

ROFLOL.. What RUMOUR? The Word doesn't say it was a "rumour". Seriously.. these odd attempts to 'explain away' what scripture so clearly says are entertaining to say the least. I suspect your posts on this matter are simply aimed to detract, which explains why they couldn't possibly be taken seriously by the reader. With that said, it's best we respond to those who are actually serious about their positions.

There's no helping your stated view of the meaning of 'rumour'. I'd provide a definition but that might be interpreted as condescending. Suffice it to say your post gives no evidence of an understanding of the meaning of the word. Similarly I won't attempt to teach you to read scripture in context nor to understand the meaning of English words in the passage; suffice it to say that your post gives no evidence of understanding of the passage or of the English words used in it.

@ Sunlover - Thank you for posting the entire scripture for all to see for themselves the truth against the very amusing lies & fallacies being told.

By the way, Sunlover1 truncated the passage at verse 18 or so rather than quoting it more fully. It is interesting that you didn't notice the truncation. The passage starts at verse 14 when Peter stands up to speak and ends at verse 36 when the crowd responds to his message. The prelude to Peter's speech starts at verse 1 and concludes at verse 13. I'd quote it but I am not confident that you'd read the quote.

 

[HisSparkPlug]

It is not a statistic it is a statement. You could refute it by quoting some ancient Christian preacher or teacher making the claim that the disciples were acting drunk by stumbling around and falling down but you won't will you because no such statement exists does it? So the statement is true and you're talking nonsense in your post.

What does anyone care what someone else has said? I only care what GOD Himself says and His Word is already clear on the matter.
I have faith in the intelligence of readers to recognize when someone is creating fluff from their imagination.
God bless

 

[MoreCoffee]

It is not a statistic it is a statement. You could refute it by quoting some ancient Christian preacher or teacher making the claim that the disciples were acting drunk by stumbling around and falling down but you won't will you because no such statement exists does it? So the statement is true and you're talking nonsense in your post.

What does anyone care what someone else has said? I only care what GOD Himself says and His Word is already clear on the matter. I have faith in the intelligence of readers to recognize when someone is creating fluff from their imagination. God bless

You typed a lot of words but said nothing at all. Why do you write these kinds of vacuous posts?

 

[shturt678s]

What does anyone care what someone else has said? I only care what GOD Himself says and His Word is already clear on the matter.
I have faith in the intelligence of readers to recognize when someone is creating fluff from their imagination.
God bless

One thing we can take to the bank, MC is not a 'fluffy' kind of Christian when it comes to the Scriptures for sure.

Old sparring partner Jack

 

[MoreCoffee]

One thing we can take to the bank, MC is not a 'fluffy' kind of Christian when it comes to the Scriptures for sure.

Old sparring partner Jack

But I like fluffy animal pictures

 

[HisSparkPlug]

I forgot about the part in the Moses story where he says to Joshua "Are you jealous for my sake?" People can become jealous for the old ways of doing things and want to stop God's moving. Jewels lie hiddden in us that God wants to come out. Gold, silver, jewels. But we should be concerned that some may be building not such good things on the foundation of God's precious temple. And we are that temple! So we should beware that whoever is teaching, leading, imparting, ect. is building correctly upon our foundation. The riches, glory, beauty, and spirituality of heaven.

Good reminder SeekingHim - Definitely need to ensure those who we listen to are solid and not blowing fluff

It's true there are a great number of folks in the body who want to drink the old wine and not the new.

"Do not remember the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing, now it shall spring forth; shall you not know it?" - Isaiah 43:18-19

When the Lord asks, "Shall you not know it?" He is saying, "Do you want to open yourself to My new thing? Are you willing to embrace it?"
Unfortunately, those who want to drink the old wine are not willing to move forward with the new things Abba does. They say God doesn't do anything new. It's true that God is the same always - but that doesn't mean He has shared everything He does with us already.
Praise God!

 

[ViaCrucis]

There's also nothing to say they weren't juggling over-ripe bananas while hurling flamingo heads into the crowd with a trebuchet made from cedar branches and painted luminous orange. Should we conclude from this Scriptural silence that vivid orange trebuchets were used?

I smell a new revival involving over-ripe bananas and flamingo heads in the making.

"Juggling in the Spirit", it's God's "new thing", don't you dare criticize "God's anointed" during this "Latter rain" of the Spirit.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I smell a new revival involving over-ripe bananas and flamingo heads in the making.

"Juggling in the Spirit", it's God's "new thing", don't you dare criticize "God's anointed" during this "Latter rain" of the Spirit.

-CryptoLutheran

That's all man-made, God doesn't change. He is the same yesterday, today and always.

Some would like to think that God changes, but He doesn't.

A juggling revival with pink flamingo's eating bananas? Is that the 'new thing' that happens after the 'latter rain' or before the latter?

 

[Seeking Him]

Good reminder SeekingHim - Definitely need to ensure those who we listen to are solid and not blowing fluff

It's true there are a great number of folks in the body who want to drink the old wine and not the new.

"Do not remember the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing, now it shall spring forth; shall you not know it?" - Isaiah 43:18-19

When the Lord asks, "Shall you not know it?" He is saying, "Do you want to open yourself to My new thing? Are you willing to embrace it?"
Unfortunately, those who want to drink the old wine are not willing to move forward with the new things Abba does. They say God doesn't do anything new. It's true that God is the same always - but that doesn't mean He has shared everything He does with us already.
Praise God!

I remember a great article by Derek Prince from the 70's. He was talking about that scripture: "No man having drunk old wine, right away desires the new, for he says the old is better." Prince was saying old legalism impresses the old nature. It takes time for people entrenched in these things to come out. Whether cessationist or charismatic, it can apply to both. Prince said the new wine of the Spirit ministers life and grace, and is filled with eternal glory.

Eternal glory! something that can never be destroyed or erased. An inheritance, it is ours. We're called to it. I love where Jesus says in Hebrews 2," Look at me and the children God has given me. We are signs and wonders!" Imagine. Signs and wonders bring glory to God. When Jesus changed water into wine, it says this was His first sign and He manifested His glory.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I remember a great article by Derek Prince from the 70's. He was talking about that scripture: "No man having drunk old wine, right away desires the new, for he says the old is better." Prince was saying old legalism impresses the old nature.

That isn't what the passage teaches.
Albert Barnes wrote:

Luk_5:39 Having drunk old wine ... - Wine increases its strength and flavor, and its mildness and mellowness, by age, and the old is therefore preferable. They who had tasted such mild and mellow wine would not readily drink the comparatively sour and astringent juice of the grape as it came from the press. The meaning of this proverb in this place seems to be this: You Pharisees wish to draw my disciples to the “austere” and “rigid” duties of the ceremonial law - to fasting and painful rites; but they have come under a milder system. They have tasted the gentle and tender blessings of the gospel; they have no “relish” for your stern and harsh requirements. To insist now on their observing them would be like telling a man who had tasted of good, ripe, and mild wine to partake of that which is sour and unpalatable. At the proper time all the sterner duties of religion will be properly regarded; but “at present,” to teach them to fast when they see “no occasion” for it - when they are full of joy at the presence of their Master - would be like putting a piece of new cloth on an old garment, or new wine into old bottles, or drinking unpleasant wine after one had tasted that which was more pleasant. It would be ill-timed, inappropriate, and incongruous.
​

Luke 5:36-39

(36) And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
(37) And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
(38) But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
(39) No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.​

It takes time for people entrenched in these things to come out. Whether cessationist or charismatic, it can apply to both. Prince said the new wine of the Spirit ministers life and grace, and is filled with eternal glory.

Eternal glory! something that can never be destroyed or erased. An inheritance, it is ours. We're called to it. I love where Jesus says in Hebrews 2," Look at me and the children God has given me. We are signs and wonders!" Imagine. Signs and wonders bring glory to God. When Jesus changed water into wine, it says this was His first sign and He manifested His glory.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

I love where Jesus says in Hebrews 2," Look at me and the children God has given me. We are signs and wonders!" Imagine. Signs and wonders bring glory to God. When Jesus changed water into wine, it says this was His first sign and He manifested His glory.

Can you point out to me where Jesus Himself makes any statements in Hebrews 2, let alone what you've stated here?

 

[Brad413]

I don't see that in Hebrews 2. In John two it states that he showed His first sign and showed his glory but I am stumped where Hebrews 2 comes into this