Should women be pastors?

[PT Calvinist]

Just curious...I don't know if this is a forbidden topic or not, if it is I'm sorry...

But if it isn't, the question stands, Should women be Pastors?

 

[MrPolo]

I think there's a gigantic thread on this forum somewhere on this subject. The Catholic teaching says no, it is impossible. Part of being an ordained minister is to operate in the person of Christ, Who is the Son, the male incarnate second person of the Trinity. It is tantamount to saying "Should men have babies?" It is an ontological impossibility as maleness cannot do that.

 

[PT Calvinist]

I personally agree with you, since I am not an egalitarian.

 

[rcorlew]

I figure I will chime in on page 1 before it gets to the standard 100+ pages that all topics like this get to.

Can they be "The Pastor", that is, the person on whom all the church is cared for by, no I do not simply because of the qualifications required to be a deacon which is to be a husband of only one wife which would mean that the person had to be male.

Now, I do believe they can be pastors, counselors, Sunday school teachers; when I say pastors I am referring to being music pastor or youth pastor or seniors pastor.

Women seem to be absolutely essential in the story of Jesus and his ministry so to stifle their contributions because of hyper-legalism is to fall to the yeast of the pharisees.

In summary; can they be "The Pastor" of a church, I believe no; can they be pastors and take care of spiritual matters for people in the church, I believe yes.

 

[2 King]

I probably fit in the category between Complementarianism and Egalitarianism...Since I'm not for Women being completely equal to man, but that they can be pastors.. Though the OP asks, "Should women be pastors", I'm torn on this question.

I believe that if they are Pastors, they have good reason to be. And I don't mind hearing women preach. I personally have never attended a Church whose pastor was a women. I think it is O.K for a Women to pastor a church if it is the will of God. After all, times have changed, Paul said things for certain reasons that were needed back then. The Church back then isn't what it is now.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Can women be priests?

YES!

Read this article. Don't ask, just read. Read the whole thing,

Patristic elements
towards a theological anthropology
of woman as a human being
and
as woman in her difference from man

 

[wayseer]

Just curious...I don't know if this is a forbidden topic or not, if it is I'm sorry...

But if it isn't, the question stands, Should women be Pastors?

The topic has been done to death - but as far as I can see - No, there is no reason why women should not be anything.

 

[Archivist]

The topic has been done to death - but as far as I can see - No, there is no reason why women should not be anything.

Agreed.

 

[one11]

I wouldn't like a woman Pastor, personally, unless she is working with her husband as a team and their kids are grown and taking care of themselves.

I think "team" pastoring is a cool idea.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Just curious...I don't know if this is a forbidden topic or not, if it is I'm sorry...

But if it isn't, the question stands, Should women be Pastors?

The stereotypical woman cannot be a sperm donor. The stereotypical man cannot be pregnant. Besides for those two, I do not see any physical limits on what a woman or man can or cannot be which always holds.

 

[MrPolo]

Can women be priests?

YES!

If that site claims to be Catholic Church "Capital C-Catholic" then it's heretical and doesn't even address the concept of in persona Christi. It seems to create its own criteria for whether or not women should be priests instead of by identification as such by the authority of the Church. It's the same old story: my interpretation of Scripture trumps yours....yadda yadda.

What do the Orthodox teach on this? Are their female Orthodox priests?

 

[Everlasting33]

Yes, women should be pastors.

There are many women who feel called to leadership roles and it is wrong to limit based on sex alone.

Generally, women seek out roles (whether by societal norms or actual desire) that encourage service and nurturing. But, to deny a woman something different is unjust and oppressive.

 

[ebia]

Just curious...I don't know if this is a forbidden topic or not, if it is I'm sorry...

But if it isn't, the question stands, Should women be Pastors?

Whoever is called by God to the role should be accepted in the role.

Since that includes some women, yes.

 

[ebia]

I think there's a gigantic thread on this forum somewhere on this subject. The Catholic teaching says no, it is impossible. Part of being an ordained minister is to operate in the person of Christ, Who is the Son, the male incarnate second person of the Trinity. It is tantamount to saying "Should men have babies?" It is an ontological impossibility as maleness cannot do that.

If only men can represent Christ, then the converse necessarly follows: that Christ only represents men, and not women. Since this is clearly not true - Christ died for all humanity, then (in so far as anyone does) anyone God calls can act in persona Christi.

 

[ke1985]

If only men can represent Christ, then the converse necessarly follows: that Christ only represents men, and not women. Since this is clearly not true - Christ died for all humanity, then (in so far as anyone does) anyone God calls can act in persona Christi.

exactly!!

 

[ebia]

If that site claims to be Catholic Church "Capital C-Catholic" then it's heretical and doesn't even address the concept of in persona Christi. It seems to create its own criteria for whether or not women should be priests instead of by identification as such by the authority of the Church. It's the same old story: my interpretation of Scripture trumps yours....yadda yadda.

What do the Orthodox teach on this? Are their female Orthodox priests?

There are Othodox deaconesses, and very senior Orthodox people like Metropoliton Kalistos Ware who imply that a deaconess is no different from a deacon and that there is no in-principle reason why women could not be ordained to the priesthood.

 

[one11]

The Op said "should" not "can".

Should women be Pastors.

To me, no.

And, that's why I'm not Anglican. Not for me. Organized religion is too much into money and being pc than anything else, and I will never like it, but deal with it, I can. I sound like Yoda.

 

[MrPolo]

If only men can represent Christ, then the converse necessarly follows: that Christ only represents men, and not women.

That is not the case here, and all the high Churches have not just glazed over that thought for 2000 years and missed it.

All people, men and women, are called to the priesthood of all believers in which we all make our personal sacrifices in union with Christ's.

The ministerial priesthood is a fulfillment of the Old Covenant priesthood. The priest is one who makes sacrifice. That is the definition of a priest/presbyter. Jesus Christ is the High Priest, and only He is able to make the one sacrifice on the Cross, and it is conditional upon His incarnation as a man. No one can deny His Sonship. In order to represent the sacrifice, one must act in persona Christi, and thus be male. It is simply an impossibility for a woman to confect the Eucharist. It is a square circle. It is impossible.

 

[MrPolo]

There are Othodox deaconesses, and very senior Orthodox people like Metropoliton Kalistos Ware who imply that a deaconess is no different from a deacon and that there is no in-principle reason why women could not be ordained to the priesthood.

A deacon cannot confect the Eucharist in Catholic theology whether he is male or not. A deacon is not a priest. What about female Orthodox priests. Are there any?

 

[ebia]

That is not the case here, and all the high Churches have not just glazed over that thought for 2000 years and missed it.

I wouldn't presume to think that I was the first person to consider the point, but I still think the logic and therefore the conclusion is mistaken. We all recognise there is both continuity and discontinuity between what goes before Jesus and what comes after. The high sacramental churches have a tendency to over-emphasis the continuity while the low churches have a tendency to over-emphasis the discontinuity. In this case I think (1) the high churches have missed the point and (2) this argument is "genuinely novel, untraditional," for Jesus' malenes was of no interest to patristic christology. To make maleness essential to the Incarnation would introduce false and dangerous ideas into the mystery of redemption. (Norris cited in Eucharist and Ecumenism, G. Hunsinger)

Torrence, cited in the same book:




This teaching is false, because it contradicts basic elements in the doctrines of:

• Incarnation and the new order of creation
• The virgin birth, which sets aside male sovereignty and judges it as sinful
• the hypostatic union of divine and human nature in the one person of Jesus Christ who is of the same uncreated genderless Being as God the Father and God the Holy Spirit
• the redemptive and healing assumption of complete human nature in Christ
• the atoning sacrifice of Christ which he has offered once for all on our behalf, in our place, in our stead.

And I can think of quite a few more arguments that defeat the one of iconic representation.

A deacon cannot confect the Eucharist in Catholic theology whether he is male or not. A deacon is not a priest.

I'm perfectly aware of that.

What about female Orthodox priests. Are there any?

As my previous post implied: not yet, but more than one influential metropolitan is seriously considering whether they should be.