Thanks for helping me to understand your point of view. I do see what you mean now. It is a little crazy that the issue of being baptized forward or backwards was an issue at all. Especially since there is nothing at all in the Bible about the subject.
In that respect there is neither a stronger or weaker person in the faith. They are both weak. Because neither side know the scriptures. This no longer becomes an issue of receiving someone in the faith. It isn't even about doubtful disputation. Because there is nothing for faith to stand on here.
I do see your thought though. If they knew (at least some of them) that it wasn't even a subject of scripture then they could yield to the other side. That would be the act of not putting a stumbling block in front of them. It would not be agreeing to disagree, it would be saying that there is nothing to argue about in the first place.
but that in and of itself is to agree to disagree....iow's if I say, there is nothing to argue about, I am disagreeing with those that want to argue about it, thus disagreeing with them on the very premise that it is an issue in the first place. I guess the heart of what I am getting at, is that there is a time (just like Ecc. tells us) for everything under the sun, including but not limited to, agreeing to disagree. Here is another example...I was talking to a friend, we were talking about pastoral mandated education. As best I could tell, we agreed, however, she kept insisting that we would just have to agree to disagree. I asked her where we disagreed, cause I couldn't figure it out, and she kept repeating that we would just have to agree to disagree. This then, was a situation in which I was not afraid to agree to disagree with her, because quiet frankly, to this day I have no idea how we disagree, thus I disagree with her assertion that we disagree. But I can do so peaceably, without argument, without hostility, etc. which I think is the point people are making when they say we will agree to disagree, they are saying, it isn't worth a fight over, we are two different people with differing opinions that are not contrary to scripture, so let's leave it there.
Another issue I take, which is related but a bit different, is when people try to force scripture and the conforming to that scripture onto others. God gave us a right to choose what we believe, no man has a right to take that from me, this too them can become an issue in which two people might use the "agree to disagree" argument in the case of a serious doctrinal issue. The bottom line as best as I can see it, is that we are not to fight with each other. In fact, truth is able to stand on it's own without mine or your or anyone elses defense. When we allow God to defend Himself and His word, there is no reason to carry the disagreement beyond here is what scripture shows us, reason together in love, and if we still disagree, pray and allow God to do what He does best, transform lives. That being said, we need to also make sure that the life needing transformed is not our own, and our understanding.
To disagree normally means to take an opposing position. In this case there is no opposing position...only the making of peace.
but the point is, that in and of itself is an opposing position. One thinks it's an issue to split the church over, the other thinks it's a "disputable" matter in which there is no argument to have. Two opposing positions, thus, the argument "agree to disagree" could be wise counsel.
When I speak of the "agree to disagree" doctrine I am speaking of people having 2 different interpretations of the same scripture. I see that you and I are actually in agreement on this.
I am not going to split the church over the color of the carpet, because it isn't even something God has given instruction on in the scriptures. If someone wants red and they would rather fight and scream about it to get their way then fine, it can be red for all I care. But after I make peace in that, I am going to help them come to an understanding of what the scripture says as it relates to being peace makers and not causing strife.
amen...got a devils advocate question for you to ponder for a moment. What about the color, dimensions, etc. of say the temple, or the ark? Things that God did specify materials for, would they become matters to "split" a church over? The answer helps us know where to draw the line and how then to define the argument. Let's say that we are living in the age before Christ. God has handed down the instructions for building the ark of the covenant, you want to save money so you want to cover it in...silver rather than gold, you might even just like silver better than gold. I stand up and say, no, it is to be gold, gold it will be. Is this a matter in which we take each other to task, as in the color of the carpet?
I'll give my answer after you offer yours, I have a feeling they are the same.
I can agree quickly with my adversary when there is no cause for opposing them. But when there is a cause (2 interpretations of one scripture, meaning someone, me or them, is wrong) I can not simply agree for the sake of "peace". Even Jesus said He did not come to bring peace but a sword. Instead I must search the scriptures together with my "adversary".
amen, I think I covered that agreement already.
If I am wrong then so be it. If they are, then so be it. If we both are, then so be it. But in the end we are both stronger. If however we "agree to disagree" and go our separate ways, we have only said that it is ok for one of us (or possibly both) to believe and teach a lie. In so doing we have condemned each other and those we teach to standing on shifting sand. When the waves come someone will drown.
but, there is a time and point in which we are to shake the dust off our feet and move on...a time in which we are to end the arguing and have nothing more to do with the person (you seem to know scripture if you need the references let me know)
A few weeks back, I was face to face with the question, when do you know it is time to move on, shake the dust off your feet, and when to stay. I even went so far as to ask our pastor who couldn't answer the question either. So I went to scripture. In scripture there are 3 things that endure forever, (depending on how you separate them, they could be more) 1. God, here is one place you could separate by saying name of Jesus, I lump them together. 2. Love, this is biblical love, which is much broader and deeper and higher than most will ever be able to grasp and 3. righteousness. So, if the issue at hand and the discussion I am having with another person lacks one or more of these three things, then there is an end to the issue, not an enduring forever.
So, let's apply the concept, let's go back to the issue of baptizing forward or backward. We get into a "battle" in the church over whether or not it is an issue to even fight over. But the battle lines are drawn by people who refuse to hear the truth of scripture. We continue to try to teach them, but they continue to argue and fight over which way it should be done. When 1 or more of the three things above cease to happen, we need to follow scripture and walk away leaving these people to their own sin.
In fact, we are in a similar battle in our own local body at the moment. They want to do everything emotionally, without scripture while claiming scripture to be their basis. Our "fight" is to get them to understand that God wants us to follow scripture. This fight has been going on for about 4 1/2 years now. The word is preached, but no one is listening to it and obeying it. So how long do we try to teach them the truth, and when do we shake the dust off our feet and say, respectfully, understanding their God given right to reject God, "we will agree to disagree" and move on? Where I agree with you on the principle of this thread, I do see times where agreeing to disagree is a wise thing.
Sorry, I didn't mean to get all preachy about it. I agree with the thought you shared. I believe we both agree. I am glad to make your acquaintance.
lol...I don't mind preachy, I get that way sometimes myself, especially on the topic of love...I also am glad to meet you, looking forward to more chats and the give and take of learning all we can about our Lord.