Should every leader of the church have a masters degree or higher?

[Strong in Him]

Many of the responses that I have read in this thread, have nothing to do with
a college degree, for pastors/teachers.

Some of the posts have wandered away from the topic; people are saying, though, that pastors should be educated.

Some of the posts, associate having a degree, with being arrogant.

Well I, for one, only said that there might be a tendency, for people with an M.A, to think of themselves as better than others who don't have a Master's degree.
And I knew a Minister who was like that.

I do not find this thread, to be useful.

Not all threads on CF are useful, or helpful, for everyone. You don't have to take part in the discussion if it is not useful.

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

Ignoring the ridiculous and hyperbolic slander involved here. Let's do something simple, let's examine the context of 1 John 2:27.

"Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they are not of us. But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you have all knowledge. I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He made to us--eternal life.

I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But the anointing that you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as His anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie--just as it has taught you, abide in Him." - 1 John 2:18-27

Here are some things we learn from this passage:

There are heretics who claim authority, they are outside of the Church as heretics teaching false teaching. They deny Christ, it is not here altogether clear in what way they are denying Jesus is the Christ; but given other things John says (e.g. 2 John 1:7) this is probably some early form of Docetism, probably the Cerinthian variety (See Cerinthianism and Docetism if you are unfamiliar with these).

John is not concerned with his audience being deceived, but trusts that his readers, having already received true teaching, abide in it, and thus are anointed; having already received the truth of the Gospel in what they have heard, and abided in, from the beginning--when they first heard and believed.

Compare this with St. Paul in Ephesians,

"In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory." - Ephesians 1:13-14

The one who, having heard and believed the Gospel, has been sealed--anointed--with the Holy Spirit. Abiding in the truth received from the beginning; speaking of which, the same Apostle Paul writes to the Corinthians what that teaching from the beginning is:

"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures," - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4

Which is also why the same Apostle can say to the Thessalonians:

"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this He called you through our Gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter." - 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

On this foundation of truth, on account of true and faithful teaching, St. John says:

"I write this about those trying to deceive you" that is, these antichrists, these heretics, are out trying to deceive; but John is not worried, because his readers have received the truth already, they are abiding in faithful and good teaching which they already received; and their faith in Christ shall protect them. They, therefore, do not need anyone to teach them--they do not need to receive new teachings and new teachers, because they have already received solid teaching; and if they simply abide in that, they will continue to abide in Christ, "But as His anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie--just as it has taught you, abide in Him."

You can slander, you can make false accusations all you like. But you can't ignore the context of the passage, you can't just make up whatever meaning you want.

You can fight against the word of God if you so wish, but it's a losing battle.

-CryptoLutheran

More gaslighting and projection. What was ridiculous and hyperbolic slander? What false accusation did I make? Don’t ignore it, prove it as such. Sorry, but just because something doesn’t align with your feelings doesn’t make it false or slander. Slander = lying, where did I lie? I want to know so I can correct or delete my post. Pretty strong accusation to make, especially when you don’t even bother to back it up. ‘I said so’ doesn’t validate anything. If you’re going to accuse, back it up.

There is also not a single thing in your post that endorses the manmade institution of seminary training. Nothing. Did you forget the thread topic? And Cerinthianism ironically also sinfully carries the name of a mortal sinful man just like your religious tradition.

Where in that passage does it say that John isn’t worried about his audience? It doesn’t say that at all, you added that yourself. He wouldn’t have addressed the topic to the audience if he wasn’t concerned, so your claim makes no sense. What he is saying in that passage is they already know the truth and he is encouraging them to stay in the truth, warning them not to depart from it. Which is why he says they do not need anyone to teach them LOL. They have the anointing. And anyone who is looking to be in a position of spiritual leadership sure better have that anointing of the Holy Spirit, which cannot be purchased with seminary tuition. So; as I said, 1 John 2:27. Now, what was it you were saying about mishandling scripture? If John wasn’t concerned with his audience being deceived, he would have never addressed the issue. 2 Peter 2 warns of false teachers, same for the Book of Jude and Philippians 3 and these were addressed to the Church also. In fact, speaking of Philippians 3, in Philippians 3:7 Paul counted all previous things as loss after coming to know Christ..which would include his extensive religious training. What were you saying about fighting against scripture and false accusations?

It is easy spot the obvious false religious movements, like Cerinthianism. What really matters is being able to discern the not-so-obvious, more widely accepted false movements and false teachings, you know?

You’re not going to convince me; seminary is an unbiblical, manmade institution and tuition money cannot buy the anointing. So let’s just amicably agree to disagree, no more gaslighting and projection necessary, or false accusations of me ‘fighting against scripture’. It isn’t loving your neighbor as yourself, besides I see straight through those tactics anyway. I genuinely hope some day God will deliver you from resorting to such things. And for future reference, kindly, if you are going to accuse someone of slander aka lying, especially a Christian..you should back it up with evidence so that they can repent, apologize, and correct things as needed.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Yes

 

[ViaCrucis]

Where in that passage does it say that John isn’t worried about his audience?

I'm selectively answering you because it's clear you only desire to be hostile without engaging in meaningful conversation.

"I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth" - 1 John 2:21

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Stephen3141]

Why are there quotations in this thread, about knowing the truth, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Many of these verses are being interpreted according to the point that the
author of the post is trying to make. This solves nothing.

The question is, what is the place of formal education, in the preparation
of a Christian leader? Acting as if all verses in Scripture that speak of knowing
something, must bypass formal education, is a huge argument from silence.
It would be better to recognize that many of these verses quoted, do not address
how education should come about. They do not address, how it is that we are
to come to know something.

 

[timothyu]

How about a minimum of 1700 years of the blind leading the blind that formed the basis of what is considered education

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

I'm selectively answering you because it's clear you only desire to be hostile without engaging in meaningful conversation.

"I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth" - 1 John 2:21

-CryptoLutheran

You are actually projecting,
gaslighting, and false accusing yet again. That isn’t true at all, if I desired to be hostile I wouldn’t have requested proof of what I said as false so that I can do what is needed to set things right if that is the case, wouldn’t be willing to edit or delete posts as needed and repent and apologize. My only desire is the truth.

You selectively answered me only because you couldn’t make good on what I asked. Also, the first thing you said to me in this thread was a false accusation of misusing scripture, then proceeded to gaslight, project..what were you saying about a desire to be hostile? Then you go on to do exactly what you accuse me of..misusing scripture. I’ll prove that.

Makes no sense at all, why would John, Paul, and Peter all address the subject of false teachers to their brethren if they weren’t concerned about them being misled? What is the point? It is because no one is above temptation. Seems that you skipped right over 1 John 2:26:

“These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you”

Interesting choice of words there, ‘them that seduce you’, which makes it plain you’re clearly wrong on claiming John wasn’t concerned about his audience possibly being led astray, it was the whole point of that passage to begin with. 1 John 2:26 proves that. Which is why he goes on to say in the next verse they need no man to teach them. And rather than admit you were wrong, which I am willing to do if you could even be bothered to back your accusations, you keep doubling down on the gaslighting, projection, false accusations, and mishandling scripture.

This is why I hate the manmade religious system. It is all about taking what is clearly written and made so simple in God’s Word and twisting it into something else to conform with false, unbiblical religious traditions, rites, and denominational flaming hoops. And false teachers mislead people to believe that it is necessary to be lorded over by someone who is ‘educated’ when the Word says the opposite. And no one within Big Religion can ever seem to just admit they were wrong about anything, which is why there’s who knows how many denominations in the building-based weekend religious system and still growing. They just double down on the error. Seminary graduates and their disciples, as much as they claim to value ‘education’ don’t ever seem to have the education enough to admit when they’re wrong.

 

[Strong in Him]

The question is, what is the place of formal education, in the preparation
of a Christian leader?

Actually, the questions was "should every leader of the church have a master's degree, or higher?"
The need for education doesn't seem to be in dispute - but should it be an MA or above?

It would be better to recognize that many of these verses quoted, do not address
how education should come about. They do not address, how it is that we are
to come to know something.

True.
Even as a young adult, a few A levels + experience may rank higher than 3 years higher study but no experience.
Just because someone may be an MA, or even a Rev Dr, doesn't mean they know any more, or are any more effective, that a vicar who has one degree but 15 years experience.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You are actually projecting,
gaslighting, and false accusing yet again. That isn’t true at all, if I desired to be hostile I wouldn’t have requested proof of what I said as false so that I can do what is needed to set things right if that is the case, wouldn’t be willing to edit or delete posts as needed and repent and apologize. My only desire is the truth.

You selectively answered me only because you couldn’t make good on what I asked. Also, the first thing you said to me in this thread was a false accusation of misusing scripture, then proceeded to gaslight, project..what were you saying about a desire to be hostile? Then you go on to do exactly what you accuse me of..misusing scripture. I’ll prove that.

Makes no sense at all, why would John, Paul, and Peter all address the subject of false teachers to their brethren if they weren’t concerned about them being misled? What is the point? It is because no one is above temptation. Seems that you skipped right over 1 John 2:26:

“These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you”

Interesting choice of words there, ‘them that seduce you’, which makes it plain you’re clearly wrong on claiming John wasn’t concerned about his audience possibly being led astray, it was the whole point of that passage to begin with. 1 John 2:26 proves that. Which is why he goes on to say in the next verse they need no man to teach them. And rather than admit you were wrong, which I am willing to do if you could even be bothered to back your accusations, you keep doubling down on the gaslighting, projection, false accusations, and mishandling scripture.

This is why I hate the manmade religious system. It is all about taking what is clearly written and made so simple in God’s Word and twisting it into something else to conform with false, unbiblical religious traditions, rites, and denominational flaming hoops. And false teachers mislead people to believe that it is necessary to be lorded over by someone who is ‘educated’ when the Word says the opposite. And no one within Big Religion can ever seem to just admit they were wrong about anything, which is why there’s who knows how many denominations in the building-based weekend religious system and still growing. They just double down on the error. Seminary graduates and their disciples, as much as they claim to value ‘education’ don’t ever seem to have the education enough to admit when they’re wrong.

... and we all know that Jesus never saw any use whatsoever for educated people, especially those like the Scribes or the Pharisees.

 

[GodBeMercifulToMeASinner]

... and we all know that Jesus never saw any use whatsoever for educated people, especially those like the Scribes or the Pharisees.

Doesn’t seem He thought very highly of them in Matthew Ch. 23. And that passage applies exactly to the corrupt, hypocritical, rituals rites and manmade tradition oriented sphere of Big Religion and the oh so ‘enlightened’ and ‘educated’ gatekeepers of it, still to this very day.

“The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.”
—Ecclesiastes 1:9

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Doesn’t seem He thought very highly of them in Matthew Ch. 23. And that passage applies exactly to the corrupt, hypocritical, rituals rites and manmade tradition oriented sphere of Big Religion and the oh so ‘enlightened’ and ‘educated’ gatekeepers of it, still to this very day.

“The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.”
—Ecclesiastes 1:9

I think it does go without saying that having an education doesn't in any way guarantee reaching a higher spiritual attainment with Christ. I know for sure it hasn't in my own personal life.

On the other hand, I have seen quite a few cases where certain church leaders, devoid of any education, have made some theological and moral snafus that many laymen (and laywomen) wouldn't make.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Jesus did pronounce specifically and directly woes to them (not at all a good thing nor something to be desired by anyone righteous or God-fearing/ Jesus Following).

Yes, both Jesus and Paul voiced some heavy denunciations of the Scribes and the Pharisees. And from what I can tell, Professional Debaters and Philosophers were also included in those same judgments and evaluations. (Matthew chapter 23 and 1 Corinthians chapter 1).

At the same time, we might also want to pay attention to the fact that when addressing the Scribes and the Pharisees who wanted to kill Him, Jesus expressed one form of counter-measure which those same detractors could expect to confront at a future time:

Matthew 23:34​

​

34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, ...​

 

[timothyu]

It's like music. You can teach someone to play by the book, but most of the real talent just feels it.

 

[Paidiske]

Even so, real talent is enhanced with some training.

 

[stevevw]

In the PCA denomination, to be a Pastor requires a master of divinity or higher. Ensuring smooth operation and prevention of common issues. Roles such as elders, deacons, and treasurers do not necessarily require to have a master's degree in Divinity or equivalent, The question posed is whether all Christian denominations should adopt this standard. The argument for universal adoption includes:

1. Educated clergy are less likely to misinterpret scripture or provide misguided advice, as understanding ancient languages and biblical interpretation typically requires formal education.
2. Clergy without an education tend to have a low view of Scripture and they'll either twist the word of God or they'll declare it or church attendance unimportant when both are essential to the Christian faith. This can happen even from people with an education as well but it's much, much easier for this to happen in an uneducated clergy member than an educated one.
3. A uneducated clergy member can take advantage of its congregation and can abuse the authority given to them by God. Generally clergy who have an education tend to take God's word more seriously and will take their duty to educate, help and lead the flock of God. It takes an education in theology and pastorship to learn how to lead the flock of God and to help people come to Christ and to learn the importance of church worship.
4. It generally takes an education to understand the word of God and biblical interpretation should be left to the theologians and Clergy who know and understand what the word of God says.
5. (Biased opinion) A Pastor without an education is like a hunter without a gun. They are unequipped to handle everything that being the leader of a church entails and they tend to be as John MCarthur puts it, "unqualified".
   
   The suggestion is that these reasons validate the need for educational requirements across all Christian denominations to maintain high standards of leadership and guidance within the church.
   

We've got too many people with degrees and master degrees for just about every human problem. We know more about what makes a human sick and psychologically disturbed than ever in our history. Yet as a society we have never been so unhappy and mentally disturbed.

Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Most of helping people is common knowledge and in fact people have the answers within them. We use to help each other as neighbours, chatting over a cuppa, looking after their kids, looking out for new families that moved into the neighbourhood and lending a shoulder to cry on.

That seems to have all vanished as we hide away from each other, neighbours alienated from each other, people fearful of each other and not trusting each other. In fact we are doing the opposite and ripping each other off and being selfish.

Its not about Pastors having degrees its about encouraging a unitified community where everyone is a helper and carer of each other. Just as Paul was saying when he wrote to the churches.

 

[Tom8907]

Nope. Look at your average Anglican archbishop vs, say a pastor who has been to Bible College but is full of zeal for God's word.

 

[timothyu]

Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

The chiefs in this tsunami of greed we are facing in everyday life lately have forgotten the one thing all their wealth, power and edumacation haven't given them... that the masters are to serve the servants. Are there shares in churches on the stock markets yet? I haven't paid attention.

 

[Neostarwcc]

We've got too many people with degrees and master degrees for just about every human problem. We know more about what makes a human sick and psychologically disturbed than ever in our history. Yet as a society we have never been so unhappy and mentally disturbed.

Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Most of helping people is common knowledge and in fact people have the answers within them. We use to help each other as neighbours, chatting over a cuppa, looking after their kids, looking out for new families that moved into the neighbourhood and lending a shoulder to cry on.

That seems to have all vanished as we hide away from each other, neighbours alienated from each other, people fearful of each other and not trusting each other. In fact we are doing the opposite and ripping each other off and being selfish.

Its not about Pastors having degrees its about encouraging a unitified community where everyone is a helper and carer of each other. Just as Paul was saying when he wrote to the churches.

Idk would you want to receive surgery from a surgeon without a doctorate? I sure wouldn't because one small slip up could mean the end of my life. We generally trust those with doctorates to preform the surgery correctly because they've had hands on experience with surgery and theyre knowledgable. In the same way, if a Pastor is unequipped to handle any question that may come that is just as dangerous as receiving surgery from a surgeon with no degree.

I would even make the argument that a skilled Pastor is more necessary than the surgeon example because one is losing your life and another is losing your soul. Big difference.
Thats why these requirements are put into place in the first place. We have masters degrees for everything but at the same time, many degrees that exist are important because it trains the person for and prepares them for things that are likely going to come up in their jobs. You can have all of the knowledge in the world about a particular subject but without the first hand experience and training that comes from schooling you're generally up a creek without a paddle.

 

[Strong in Him]

Idk would you want to receive surgery from a surgeon without a doctorate? I sure wouldn't because one small slip up could mean the end of my life. We generally trust those with doctorates to preform the surgery correctly because they've had hands on experience with surgery and theyre knowledgable. In the same way, if a Pastor is unequipped to handle any question that may come that is just as dangerous as receiving surgery from a surgeon with no degree.

A qualified, educated Pastor; yes.
One with a Master's degree or above? Not necessary.

 

[Richard T]

I was assigned to do an exegetical analysis on Hebrews 11. I asked the instructor (A Ph.D. and quite good) if I could use Kenneth Hagin as a source. I have his exact answer written down somewhere but it basically was that he was not qualified to be used as a main source.

The problem I saw with seminary training is that is eliminated too much experience and personal guidance of the Holy Spirit. Book knowledge is good but if you get a rhema from God that agrees with the word it is so much better. Also, the one thing lacking in many theologians is the power of God and also the discernment of God. I would far rather trust the Holy Spirit than some commentary. Ideally, one would have a healthy mixture of both but I would choose a Holy Spirit inspired pastor over a highly educated one most of the time.

​