Should Christians rest on the Sabbath (saturday) and rejoice on the Lords day (sunday)?

[parousia70]

Great post, very thought out!

Thank you.

God brings the sword and His mighty hand and scatters the people amongst the nations and brings wrath.

Agreed

I believe there is only one Day of the Lord where he will destroy the earth and it will roll up as a scroll;

Scripture tells the opposite tale. There have been MANY "Day of the Lord" events In Israel's History.
I listed a few of them but can list more if you'd like?

Heaven and earth have not passed away. What you have listed are shadows which will foretell a future event.

Where does scripture teach you this?
...And Why does Isaiah call the establishment of Israel as a nation "the planting of heavens and laying the foundations of earth?" Since the creation of Israel is called by the Prophets "the creation of Heavens and earth" Does it not follow that the destruction of Israel would be called by the prophets "the destruction of, or passing of heavens and earth"?

Scripture plainly teaches that the physical earth and material cosmos will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations are perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33) so any scripture depicting their destruction must be understood in that light and harmonized, and the only way to do that is affirm that the prophets often used language of universal cataclysm to depict the fall of a nation, which I have done.

These all have happened and most on the same day the Ninth of AV. If you look at the stories in scripture they have duel meanings a physical and a spiritual. Passover is an amazing example, physical when they Israel was saved out of bondage by the blood of the lamb and how we are saved by the blood of the lamb out of bondage on the same day as Passover. That is the shadows that bring the reality.

I am very familiar with OT Typology, but Old Testament types become New Testament Fulfillments....The Messianic fulfillment is not a shadow itself of some future, greater fulfillment...
Should we be expecting another virgin Birth? another Crusifixion, another future, greater redemption from Sin? No, For Christ is not the Shadow but the object itself. And to circle back to The Sabbath, it is true of that as well.. Sabbath Rest = Shadow, Rest in Christ = Fulfillment

I am just curious, what is with your Grateful Dead images?

I'm a fan. I saw 255 shows before Jerry passed.

Thanks again for the awesome post!!

Thanks for your kind words

 

[1John2:4]

YHWH and Y'SHUA NEVER said to figure things out. To find out the TRUTH by flesh effort. - that is no good.
YHWH and Y'SHUA NEVER gave men a list and said "here, choose how to do this", nor "here, determine how to do this". Men are not capable of that, and YHWH and Y'SHUA never said they were.

I agree, just obey like a good servant, one will find the blessing once they are obedient

 

[1John2:4]

am very familiar with OT Typology, but Old Testament types become New Testament Fulfillments....The Messianic fulfillment is not a shadow itself of some future, greater fulfillment...
Should we be expecting another virgin Birth? another Crusifixion, another future, greater redemption from Sin? No, For Christ is not the Shadow but he object itself.

I am not an expert in eschatology , I just learn and study as much of His word as I can (especially early in the morning of the Shabbat when my family is sleeping) Good stuff! Anyway, sorry i got off track, I would love for you to provide more scripture on the day of the Lord being multiple events.

I agree with you, Passover has been fulfilled because the reality is Yeshua (Jesus) but I believe we should still keep the feast, He said to do this in remembrance of me. I do not believe that we will have another Messiah. I do believe he will return and fulfill the remainder of the feasts. Do you agree that He will fulfill the fall feasts as he did the spring feasts such as Passover, Unleaded bread and Shavuot? Do you believe there will be a day of the Lord where all is destroyed. Do you believe He will create a new heaven and a new earth, a new Jerusalem with living water flowing from the midst of the city? Do you believe in the 1000 year rest when we will rein with the Messiah before he turns it over to God for the great throne Judgment?

 

[1John2:4]

Hey 1John... that's all well and good, but I'm not sure I understand how this answers my question?

I guess I'll ask it again:
Is Your position is that in the future, The Glorified Christ will sit on a physical throne in a physical temple in Earthly Jerusalem and require Human Beings to be physically circumcised and render blood animal sacrifices directly at His feet for atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him?

I mean, you do believe the following passages depict a time on our future, yes?:

Ezekiel 40:39
In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.

Ezekiel 42:13
the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;

Ezekiel 43:20
'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.

Ezekiel 43:21
'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering

Ezekiel 43:22
'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering

Ezekiel 43:27
'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

Ezekiel 44:10
"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people

Ezekiel 44:23
"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Very sorry if I was unclear, I have a tendency to do that sometimes. When I read Ezekiel's prophecy regarding the temple it sounds very similar to the new Jerusalem in Revelation. Many of the attributes are the same. The exception is that there is no temple discussed in Revelation. I believe (and I am not claiming to be an expert in eschatology) that Ezekiel's temple will be in effect after the millennial rein of the Messiah in the New Jerusalem. Yes I think he will physically rein with us.

 

[1John2:4]

I'm a fan. I saw 255 shows before Jerry passed.

That explains it, I saw your Jerry Bears and I had to ask and you made me get Uncle Johns Band stuck in my head!!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Well it is time for Shabbat, so SHABBAT SHALOM EVERYONE!

 

[parousia70]

I am not an expert in eschatology , I just learn and study as much of His word as I can (especially early in the morning of the Shabbat when my family is sleeping) Good stuff! Anyway, sorry i got off track, I would love for you to provide more scripture on the day of the Lord being multiple events.

I agree with you, Passover has been fulfilled because the reality is Yeshua (Jesus) but I believe we should still keep the feast, He said to do this in remembrance of me. I do not believe that we will have another Messiah. I do believe he will return and fulfill the remainder of the feasts. Do you agree that He will fulfill the fall feasts as he did the spring feasts such as Passover, Unleaded bread and Shavuot? Do you believe there will be a day of the Lord where all is destroyed. Do you believe He will create a new heaven and a new earth, a new Jerusalem with living water flowing from the midst of the city? Do you believe in the 1000 year rest when we will rein with the Messiah before he turns it over to God for the great throne Judgment?

1 John... I don't want to derail this thread into eschatology but would love to continue this conversation w you... when I get some time, perhaps over the weekend, I'll send you a PM

 

[parousia70]

That explains it, I saw your Jerry Bears and I had to ask and you made me get Uncle Johns Band stuck in my head!!

Well, the first days ARE the hardest days..... (~);}

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I am on my cellphone so it is not as easy to me respond in line.

My post was not so much a response to worshipping on the Sabbath being required at salvation but in response to the viewpoint you have given.

OK, but nowhere did I say that the Sabbath was intended to be the day of worship, because it wasn't.

There was a man who asked how to enter heaven and Jesus responded to follow the commandments listing a number of them, with the sabbath being absent. The mosaic law (everything other than the 10 commandments) was not included either. But the (majority of) 10 commandments were. That is why I do not sacrifice animals on the alter, I am not Jewish, I am not under the (mosaic) law.

What is the passage of the story you're referring to? Also, "alter" means change but the word you want is "altar". As for being under the law, Christians are not under any law, but everyone (until they become Christians) is under all law, not just the 10 commandments.

And that is how I read the bible following what Jesus said to do here, follow the ten commandments but the mosaic law doesn't apply to me. Of course we know that there is more than that because even if I followed all of the ten commandments perfectly from now to the day I died it would not earn me salvation, only Jesus's washing away my sins will, which he does because I follow Him. I believe in him, do what He says to do as much as I am able and ask for forgiveness when I can't. But if I do not try then 1. I don't believe in Jesus and 2. I'm not repentant, both which are required for Jesus to wash away my sins.

So why do you only try to follow the 10 commandments when there are other laws given by God?

If it is your claim that absolutely no act I do has anything to do with my salvation them how would I ever be saved in the first place? I need to accept Jesus as my savior, which is an act. I need to repent, which is an act. An act is works. Even though I am required to follow Jesus's teachings, which are works, they do not save me, because I'm saved by faith, faith in Jesus enough to follow his commandments and do what he said I must do to be saved. Which I can never do good enough to please God without Jesus' grace. It is not my works that save me, it is the grace of God I get for doing what He tells me to do.

If it is your claim that you earn your salvation by even one work, no matter how "small", then you are going against God's Word.

An "act" and a "work" are different things. If I win the lottery and collect my winnings, did I "work" for that money? The act of collecting it is not work in the sense of earning that money. The word "work" is used different ways but "work" in the Bible does not refer to all those different connotations we have for that word in English. If you consider an "act" to be a "work" and that you are getting your salvation based on doing that "work" then you are going against what God's Word says. God's Word says salvation is a GIFT. Gifts require no work. The act of accepting a gift is not work.

You are contradicting yourself by first saying an act that you do saves you and that "an act is works" and then saying that your works don't save you. You also contradict yourself by saying you are required to follow Jesus' commandments and then saying that it is only faith by which you are saved. Those two things are contradictory. It is by faith you are saved and NOT OF WORKS - that's exactly what the Bible says.

I go to the doctor and the doctor does an operation that saves my life. Who saved my life, me by going to the doctor or the doctor for operating? All the credit goes to the doctor. I just did what I had to do to allow him to save my life.

So then why do you want to take credit for the "act" of believing or repenting? But with a doctor you want all credit to go to the doctor and you get no credit for the act (which you consider a "work") of going to him? That doesn't make sense. You're giving a doctor more credit for doing an operation than you're giving Jesus for redeeming you from death.

Jesus says to follow the commandments, do you? If you do not then the bible says do not be deceived, sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So you're telling me you always follow all of the commandments all the time and never, ever, ever sin? Seriously?

I'm a sinner and I still sin. Christians don't stop sinning once they become Christians. They do have a change in them and they do change their lives and they do focus on following God's commandments but they are not made into perfect beings that don't sin. I don't believe anyone, including you, who tells me they don't sin and they always follow God's Commandments.

 

[1John2:4]

1 John... I don't want to derail this thread into eschatology but would love to continue this conversation w you... when I get some time, perhaps over the weekend, I'll send you a PM

Thanks Shabbat Shalom

 

[1John2:4]

Well, the first days ARE the hardest days..... (~);}

Lol now it will be stuck in my head the whole weekend

 

[1John2:4]

Well it is time for Shabbat, so SHABBAT SHALOM EVERYONE!

Shabbat Shalom!!!

 

[Jim Langston]

OK, but nowhere did I say that the Sabbath was intended to be the day of worship, because it wasn't.


What is the passage of the story you're referring to? Also, "alter" means change but the word you want is "altar". As for being under the law, Christians are not under any law, but everyone (until they become Christians) is under all law, not just the 10 commandments.


So why do you only try to follow the 10 commandments when there are other laws given by God?


If it is your claim that you earn your salvation by even one work, no matter how "small", then you are going against God's Word.

An "act" and a "work" are different things. If I win the lottery and collect my winnings, did I "work" for that money? The act of collecting it is not work in the sense of earning that money. The word "work" is used different ways but "work" in the Bible does not refer to all those different connotations we have for that word in English. If you consider an "act" to be a "work" and that you are getting your salvation based on doing that "work" then you are going against what God's Word says. God's Word says salvation is a GIFT. Gifts require no work. The act of accepting a gift is not work.

You are contradicting yourself by first saying an act that you do saves you and that "an act is works" and then saying that your works don't save you. You also contradict yourself by saying you are required to follow Jesus' commandments and then saying that it is only faith by which you are saved. Those two things are contradictory. It is by faith you are saved and NOT OF WORKS - that's exactly what the Bible says.


So then why do you want to take credit for the "act" of believing or repenting? But with a doctor you want all credit to go to the doctor and you get no credit for the act (which you consider a "work") of going to him? That doesn't make sense. You're giving a doctor more credit for doing an operation than you're giving Jesus for redeeming you from death.


So you're telling me you always follow all of the commandments all the time and never, ever, ever sin? Seriously?

I'm a sinner and I still sin. Christians don't stop sinning once they become Christians. They do have a change in them and they do change their lives and they do focus on following God's commandments but they are not made into perfect beings that don't sin. I don't believe anyone, including you, who tells me they don't sin and they always follow God's Commandments.

Reply moved to a new thread to not derail this thread any further.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-commandments-required-for-salvation.7967622/

 

[Light of the East]

.
Constantine the Great received his greatest recognition in death.

The church ultimately bestowed Sainthood upon Constantine, his feast day is celebrated on May 21.
.

First of all, the Church does not "bestow" sainthood upon anyone. The Church examines the life of the person, looks for two medically verifiable miracles performed in response to prayer to that person, and then declares what the evidence has already shown - that the person is holy, lived a holy life, and is a saint.

And being declared a saint is not the same as ordination.

 

[Light of the East]

The Sabbath is apart of the moral law and is binding on Israel/Christians

**sound of buzzer going off**

Wrong!

The Sabbath belongs to the Old Covenant.

Exodus 31: 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

The Law of God
God’s law is condensed in “The Ten Commandments”, it is the Moral law (Ex. 20:1-17, Deut. 4:13, 5:1-21, 10:4). Jesus magnified the Law as we read in the “Sermon on the mount” and other places. Jesus Christ magnified the Law of God also in Matthew chapter 5, 6 and 7 and Isaiah 42:21. He taught to His followers they should obey the letter as well as the Spirit of the Law.

“So then the Law is Holy and the Commandment is Holy and righteous and good” (Rom. 7:12). As written in Gal. 2:20, “Christ lives in me” and to become “true saints” in Rev. 14:12. Our knowledge of sin comes from the Law (1 John 3:4, 22-24, 2:3-4).

St. Paul addressed this in Hebrews. He speaks of the Sabbath as a "rest" and then goes on to say that there "yet remaineth a rest for the children of God." Sabbath is about rest, not about a day.

The Sabbath of God
The word of God reveals that “The Seventh Day is Sabbath” (Rest) for the Eternal God (Ex. 20:10, Deut. 5:14). Sabbath should be observed from Friday sunset until Sabbath sunset.

The Sabbath is a sign between God and His faithful people. It represents “God’s rest” and it reminds us that He is the Creator. It is also the represents the millennial, the millennial year of “rest” when Jesus comes as the king of Kings (Heb. 4:1-4, Rev. 20:4-6).

Our Lord, the Apostles and the early Church have always observed the Sabbath (Luke 4:16, Acts 17:2). All mankind will observe the Sabbath during Christ’s millennial Kingdom on earth (Is. 66:22-23, 58:13-14).

The Lord and His Apostles observed the Sabbath because they were still under the Old Covenant. When the Old Covenant passed away, the Sabbath went with it. Our new day of rest is Sunday, which is appropriate because the Resurrection of Christ came on that day and gave us "rest" from our slavery to sin.

 

[Light of the East]

No one here that I know of has ever said keeping the Sabbath is required for salvation, or atonement.

Perhaps no one here has said that, but Ellen White made it quite clear in her writings that all who observe Sunday are A.) of the devil B.) going to hell.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Obviously not all,
any more than any of those who honor YHWH'S Sabbath are A.)of the devil B.)going to hell.
YHWH is the Final and Sovereign Judge, not man nor woman.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Constantine the Great received his greatest recognition in death.

The church ultimately bestowed Sainthood upon Constantine, his feast day is celebrated on May 21.

But that did not confer Holy Orders on him or make him a pope. Sainthood is something totally different than priesthood.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Matthew 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I will be happy to polish the bricks of gold in the heavenly city.

 

[Monk Brendan]

I am not too sure what it means to be least in the kingdom so I will do what my Lord and Saviour commands and do and teach the Fathers commands.

Have you ever polished gold? It is the nastiest, dirtiest experience I can think of. There is this big motor turning at 3250 rpm, and there are wheels that you have to change to scratch out any marks, and then a finer wheel to scratch out the larger scratches, etc. Then you have to use this big fluffy wheel that throws out lots of dust--on your face, on your clothes, all around! You put something called tripoli on it, and you get a dull shine. Another dusty wheel with rouge puts on the final polish.

Polishing the gold bricks in Heaven is my idea of the least in His kingdom. However, if that is my lot I will gladly do it.