Sen. J.D. Vance authors bill to ban any return of federal mask mandates

[Belk]

No, no, no. We NEVER are coerced into giving up Constitutional freedoms. Sure, things might happen like an area is closed briefly because of a natural disaster or something, but no, it is never permissible to demand consumption of a brand new drug with no long term data in order to participate in society.
Even the pivotal case law on this matter establishes that there is an either/or; comply OR pay a fine. It is often misstated by the deceptive and unknowledgeable that Jacobson upheld the power of the state to make vaccinations mandatory, but it did not.

The law at issue in Jacobson did not impose a vaccine mandate. The state could pass a law, but those who declined the smallpox vaccine had to pay a $5 fine. And the failure to pay the fine would result in a jail sentence. But the state lacked the power to jab a syringe in the offender's arm.

In fact, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court observed, "f a person should deem it important that vaccination should not be performed in his case, and the authorities should think otherwise, it is not in their power to vaccinate him by force, and the worst that could happen to him under the statute would be the payment of the penalty of $5."

Jacobson paid the fine.

You might want to review the history of every war we have ever fought in because all of them came with an abridgment of constitutional rights. From Lincolns suspension of habeus corpus to WWII internment and censorship.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Lets keep in mind that the topic here is a mask mandate - not a vaccine mandate.

And a mask mandate is exactly the kind of temporary sacrifice of freedom that I'm talking about - well below the severity of something like restrictions on going to your own house in a wildfire disaster zone, or similar. Its way less an intrusion than a vaccine mandate.

The Vaccine mandate was the major offender and entirely unconstitutional.

But even the masks have been determined to be useless. The virus is significantly smaller in the diameter than the weave of the paper/cloth of any of the masks, though a tightly fitted N95 - worn by virtually NO one - may be slightly bettter. It says right on every box of the standard surgical masks that the masks do NOT protect from viruses. So unless you are blowing snot on someone, you are doing precisely nothing of value in wearing a mask, except the really important thing to those who demanded it...virtue signaling.
Cochrane is the gold standard of medical reviews of studies: . "The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection."

Waste of time.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The Vaccine mandate was the major offender and entirely unconstitutional.

But even the masks have been determined to be useless. The virus is significantly smaller in the diameter than the weave of the paper/cloth of any of the masks, though a tightly fitted N95 - worn by virtually NO one - may be slightly bettter. It says right on every box of the standard surgical masks that the masks do NOT protect from viruses. So unless you are blowing snot on someone, you are doing precisely nothing of value in wearing a mask, except the really important thing to those who demanded it...virtue signaling.
Cochrane is the gold standard of medical reviews of studies: . "The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection."

Waste of time.

Wait! Do you think the viruses are just floating out there by themselves?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Wait! Do you think the viruses are just floating out there by themselves?

I don't understand the question. Yes, viruses are floating in the air all the time and have been since the fall of man. What does that have to do with anything I said?

 

[Hans Blaster]

I don't understand the question. Yes, viruses are floating in the air all the time and have been since the fall of man. What does that have to do with anything I said?

You talk of the pore size and the diameter of the virus. The virus does not float through the air by itself.

 

[durangodawood]

The Vaccine mandate was the major offender and entirely unconstitutional.

But even the masks have been determined to be useless. The virus is significantly smaller in the diameter than the weave of the paper/cloth of any of the masks, though a tightly fitted N95 - worn by virtually NO one - may be slightly bettter. It says right on every box of the standard surgical masks that the masks do NOT protect from viruses. So unless you are blowing snot on someone, you are doing precisely nothing of value in wearing a mask, except the really important thing to those who demanded it...virtue signaling.
Cochrane is the gold standard of medical reviews of studies: . "The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection."

Waste of time.

Did you link that study in this thread?

Regardless, the particular effectiveness of masks during covid isnt the issue at all here.

The question is: should mask mandates be banned no matter how life saving they may be during a future pandemic?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

You talk of the pore size and the diameter of the virus. The virus does not float through the air by itself.

Actually, the virus IS airborne, and that has been known the entire time. Hence, the whole push to wear masks to "slow the spread".

Why the WHO took two years to say COVID is airborne

Early in the pandemic, the World Health Organization stated that SARS-CoV-2 was not transmitted through the air. That mistake and the prolonged process of correcting it sowed confusion and raises questions about what will happen in the next pandemic.

www.nature.com

Is the coronavirus airborne? | FAQ

covid19.nj.gov

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Did you link that study in this thread?

Regardless, the particular effectiveness of masks during covid isnt the issue at all here.

The question is: should mask mandates be banned no matter how life saving they may be during a future pandemic?

Mandates are unacceptable and inappropriate. Masks can happen for anyone who wants to buy and wear them. Exactly as I said.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Actually, the virus IS airborne, and that has been known the entire time. Hence, the whole push to wear masks to "slow the spread".

Inside of tiny water droplets.

 

[durangodawood]

Mandates are unacceptable and inappropriate. Masks can happen for anyone who wants to buy and wear them. Exactly as I said.

You have argued they were inappropriate for covid. Oh and can you link that study?

You have not argued that they are inappropriate for any conceivable pandemic.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

You have argued they were inappropriate for covid. Oh and can you link that study?

You have not argued that they are inappropriate for any conceivable pandemic.

Constitutionally, mandates - especially the sort of endless mandates with zero evidence they work, such as perpetrated on young children- are unacceptable. Legally.

I cannot speak to ANY conceivable pandemic, whatever that might be. I am not a person who requires micromanagement; if I find it wise to distance or protect myself or even wear a helmet....I will do that. I don't need to be told to protect myself if I find myself in a vulnerable demographic.
As we know, with the pandemic that just occurred, the vulnerable were the elderly and those with co-morbidities, usually multiple co-morbidities. Because they aren't stupid, they protected themselves as well as they could, considering what they knew. They mostly stayed home. Of course, that didn't help the elderly in the lockdown states like New York where Cuomo just sent positive elderly back into vulnerable nursing home populations, causing many deaths, for which he faced ZERO consequence...so far.

But the average older person basically stayed home as much as possible for two years.

 

[durangodawood]

....I cannot speak to ANY conceivable pandemic, whatever that might be.....

Nor can the rest of us, which is why is absurd to take a potentially critically useful tool off the table.

If Vance has a problem with how mask mandates were applied for covid, then he should do the hard work of sorting that out and creating legislation dealing with sensible standards and criteria that can be applied next time. Instead he just does the lazy, emotional button pushing, and possible very dangerous thing of a blanket ban.

If the next one kills 5% of people in all age categories and masks were shown to cut transmission by anything more than a few %, people would be screaming for the mandate to come back.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Nor can the rest of us, which is why is absurd to take a potentially critically useful tool off the table.

If Vance has a problem with how mask mandates were applied for covid, then he should do the hard work of sorting that out and creating legislation dealing with sensible standards and criteria that can be applied next time. Instead he just does the lazy, emotional button pushing, and possible very dangerous thing of a blanket ban.

If the next one kills 5% of people in all age categories and masks were shown to cut transmission in half, people would be screaming for the mandate to come back.

It isn't a critical tool if it doesn't WORK. It didn't work. Everyone everywhere got Covid, or at least exposed, and were of the fortunate ones who didn't get ill. 90% of them were just fine. Even the literature indicates that recovery is good protection....finally....after enough product was moved to make billions. Everyone familiar with typical virus activity knew this was true - as did all the recovered people who weren't getting it again, but they were fed misinformation as long as possible to get product moved.

"Immunity acquired from a Covid infection provides strong, lasting protection against the most severe outcomes of the illness, according to research published Thursday in The Lancet — protection, experts say, that’s on par with what’s provided through two doses of an mRNA vaccine."

Past Covid infection as protective as vaccination against severe illness and death, study finds

The immunity generated from an infection was found to be “at least as high, if not higher” than that provided by two doses of an mRNA vaccine.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[durangodawood]

It isn't a critical tool if it doesn't WORK. It didn't work. .....

We're talking about the future. The bill is about the future. It constrains our response to future pandemics about which we both admitted we dont know what might or might not work.

I can stipulate you are completely right about masks and covid all day long, and my argument stands up just fine because its about potential other pandemics that we dont know about yet.

 

[FireDragon76]

It isn't a critical tool if it doesn't WORK. It didn't work. Everyone everywhere got Covid, or at least exposed, and were of the fortunate ones who didn't get ill. 90% of them were just fine. Even the literature indicates that recovery is good protection....finally....after enough product was moved to make billions. Everyone familiar with typical virus activity knew this was true - as did all the recovered people who weren't getting it again, but they were fed misinformation as long as possible to get product moved.

"Immunity acquired from a Covid infection provides strong, lasting protection against the most severe outcomes of the illness, according to research published Thursday in The Lancet — protection, experts say, that’s on par with what’s provided through two doses of an mRNA vaccine."

Past Covid infection as protective as vaccination against severe illness and death, study finds

The immunity generated from an infection was found to be “at least as high, if not higher” than that provided by two doses of an mRNA vaccine.

www.nbcnews.com

Masks in general have worked in pandemics in the past. There is also evidence they reduce transmission of other viruses.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Nor can the rest of us, which is why is absurd to take a potentially critically useful tool off the table.

If Vance has a problem with how mask mandates were applied for covid, then he should do the hard work of sorting that out and creating legislation dealing with sensible standards and criteria that can be applied next time. Instead he just does the lazy, emotional button pushing, and possible very dangerous thing of a blanket ban.

If the next one kills 5% of people in all age categories and masks were shown to cut transmission by anything more than a few %, people would be screaming for the mandate to come back.

Where in that does it say people are not ALLOWED to wear a mask or not allowed to avoid such places? Mandate means you have to not that if it is not there you are not allowed.

 

[durangodawood]

Where in that does it say people are not ALLOWED to wear a mask or not allowed to avoid such places? Mandate means you have to not that if it is not there you are not allowed.

We're discussing mask mandates. Whether people are allowed to wear masks is not at issue here.

 

[dogs4thewin]

We're discussing mask mandates. Whether people are allowed to wear masks is not at issue here.

I know but I am saying is even if MANDATES are banned that does not mean that if people find they need them for their protection they cannot wear them it is not like they are saying you cannot wear masks. If a person feels that they need to wear a mask for protection more power to them. This is just saying that in certain places they cannot be required if you want to wear them fine if the business is not either public transit or education and the business wishes to require them fine. This is really quite limited in the mandates it bans and even where MANDATES are banned that does not mean that masks cannot be worn or even encouraged.