Sacrament and the Word

[sea level]

Since the Sacrament is dependent on the Word, why not have just the Word?

 

[Propitiated]

For me, receiving the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ in my hand/mouth is more impactful for my assurance than just hearing words. There is something about receiving the forgiveness in a Tangible way, that lets me know for sure that His forgiveness is FOR ME. After all, we are physical creatures and physical things impact us.

And besides, our Lord has told us to do this. This is our participation with Him.

 

[sea level]

I always thought our walk is by faith (in God's Word) and not by sight (or feelings).
I guess that is the Baptist part of me. lol

 

[ViaCrucis]

Since the Sacrament is dependent on the Word, why not have just the Word?

God's word is never just a message.

The Divine Word Himself, God the Son, became flesh.
He suffered, and was crucified, and dead, buried, and rose from the dead, ascended into heaven, and will come again. The Divine Word is Himself a Person, the Eternal Son of the Father, who became one of us, a human being, with flesh and blood and bone.

When He, that Word, our Lord Jesus, healed the sick and worked His miracles He not only speaks, He also acts. He took dirt and spit and then put it in the blind man's eyes, and the blind man was made to see. Why did Jesus do that? Why the dirt and spit?

Why did Elisha tell Namaan, to be cured from leprosy, to go bath himself seven times in the Jordan River?

Why set up a bronze serpent to cure the venomous bites inflicted upon the Israelites when they were in the wilderness?

God has always, in His work and action, united His word with something tangible.

Even the Bible itself is an example of this--the Bible is God's word, as text, has been united with ink and paper, or as data stored as 0's and 1's in a digital form on micro-processors on a computer.

Ink and paper can't do anything; and yet the Bible you hold in your hands is the very word of God, and it is living and active, powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword.

Water can't do anything, and yet Baptism is the precious and holy gift of God by which He joins us to Christ, clothing us with Him (e.g. Galatians 3:27).

Bread and wine can't do anything, and yet the Lord's Supper is the very flesh and blood of the Savior, broken and shed for us for the forgiveness of our sins, and whoever eats His flesh and drinks His blood has eternal life.

Word and Sacrament.

That's how God has always done things, from the days of Moses for the Israelites in the wilderness and even today as we hear and receive God's gifts of Word and Sacrament in and through the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[RileyG]

For me, receiving the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ in my hand/mouth is more impactful for my assurance than just hearing words. There is something about receiving the forgiveness in a Tangible way, that lets me know for sure that His forgiveness is FOR ME. After all, we are physical creatures and physical things impact us.

And besides, our Lord has told us to do this. This is our participation with Him.

I'm not Lutheran, but that is beautifully said.

 

[sea level]

God's word is never just a message.

The Divine Word Himself, God the Son, became flesh.
He suffered, and was crucified, and dead, buried, and rose from the dead, ascended into heaven, and will come again. The Divine Word is Himself a Person, the Eternal Son of the Father, who became one of us, a human being, with flesh and blood and bone.

When He, that Word, our Lord Jesus, healed the sick and worked His miracles He not only speaks, He also acts. He took dirt and spit and then put it in the blind man's eyes, and the blind man was made to see. Why did Jesus do that? Why the dirt and spit?

Why did Elisha tell Namaan, to be cured from leprosy, to go bath himself seven times in the Jordan River?

Why set up a bronze serpent to cure the venomous bites inflicted upon the Israelites when they were in the wilderness?

God has always, in His work and action, united His word with something tangible.

Even the Bible itself is an example of this--the Bible is God's word, as text, has been united with ink and paper, or as data stored as 0's and 1's in a digital form on micro-processors on a computer.

Ink and paper can't do anything; and yet the Bible you hold in your hands is the very word of God, and it is living and active, powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword.

Water can't do anything, and yet Baptism is the precious and holy gift of God by which He joins us to Christ, clothing us with Him (e.g. Galatians 3:27).

Bread and wine can't do anything, and yet the Lord's Supper is the very flesh and blood of the Savior, broken and shed for us for the forgiveness of our sins, and whoever eats His flesh and drinks His blood has eternal life.

Word and Sacrament.

That's how God has always done things, from the days of Moses for the Israelites in the wilderness and even today as we hear and receive God's gifts of Word and Sacrament in and through the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

I can sum up my answer by saying faith takes hold of those things you described (incarnation, ink&paper etc.) believes and acts on them.
If sacraments in Scripture are so important, why are they so little taught in Scripture?
Instead, I see a great emphasis on faith in Jesus the Messiah.

 

[sea level]

In short, the Sacrament is still dependent on the Word (according to the definition of a Sacrament), no?

 

[Daniel9v9]

Yeah, simply speaking, the same Gospel promise, the same good news of forgiveness of sins and adoption won for us by the person and works of our Lord Jesus Christ, is given to us in different ways: It comes to us through people who proclaim it, through the written Holy Scriptures, and this same promise is also attached to the waters of Baptism and the bread and the wine in the Eucharist. So we receive the same Gospel in our ears and also tangibly in the Sacraments, all for our comfort and benefit, that we may have peace and joy in Christ.

 

[sea level]

So we receive the same Gospel in our ears and also tangibly in the Sacraments, all for our comfort and benefit, that we may have peace and joy in Christ.

That's kinda what I thought. 'all for our comfort and benefit,'. I guess in my case the written/oral word sufficiently comforts me.

 

[CurtUtter]

That's kinda what I thought. 'all for our comfort and benefit,'. I guess in my case the written/oral word sufficiently comforts me.

Your overall question is great sea level. I agree with what others have said. The Lord's Supper, as with all of the means of grace, are meant as a comfort to us. Our view is receiving what Christ has gifted us because frankly our old adam doesn't drown very easily. A good understanding also can come by Luther's bondage of the will, (Genesis 6:5; 8:21b; etc.). We love to sin in thought, word, and deed. So despite a great divine service up to the point of the Lord's Supper, I'm counting on that body and blood in my mouth to deliver what Christ says in John 6:21-71. As the Holy Spirit sanctifies me, its like he's giving me new glasses daily to see how much sin is hidden. All I can say is come Lord Jesus!

 

[sea level]

Your overall question is great sea level. I agree with what others have said. The Lord's Supper, as with all of the means of grace, are meant as a comfort to us. Our view is receiving what Christ has gifted us because frankly our old adam doesn't drown very easily. A good understanding also can come by Luther's bondage of the will, (Genesis 6:5; 8:21b; etc.). We love to sin in thought, word, and deed. So despite a great divine service up to the point of the Lord's Supper, I'm counting on that body and blood in my mouth to deliver what Christ says in John 6:21-71. As the Holy Spirit sanctifies me, its like he's giving me new glasses daily to see how much sin is hidden. All I can say is come Lord Jesus!

Yes, Maranatha for sure.
Incarnation seems to be the key thing here... "...and the Word became flesh" (Jn 1:14a) I guess in the Supper, we are continually proclaiming that truth visibly ...

1 Corinthians 11:26 NKJV
For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.

 

[CurtUtter]

Yes, Maranatha for sure.
Incarnation seems to be the key thing here... "...and the Word became flesh" (Jn 1:14a) I guess in the Supper, we are continually proclaiming that truth visibly ...

1 Corinthians 11:26 NKJV
For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.

Indeed. The beauty is we won't need the Lord's Supper after our resurrection. I can't wait for that day!

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yes, Maranatha for sure.
Incarnation seems to be the key thing here... "...and the Word became flesh" (Jn 1:14a) I guess in the Supper, we are continually proclaiming that truth visibly ...

1 Corinthians 11:26 NKJV
For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.

Exactly. And it is what God is continually declaring to us: He forgives us, we are forgiven. He comes down and justifies us, declares us righteous on Christ's account. He does this in Word and Sacrament. When we receive the Lord's Supper, not only are we proclaiming the Incarnation, Passion, and Atonement; but God is proclaiming His love, declaring our forgiveness, declaring us righteous on Christ's account; as pure grace, received passively through faith alone; faith which He Himself is giving, working, strengthening, creating in us.

So when I receive the body and blood of Jesus Christ, that it is for my comfort is not about sentimentality; but in that here God comforts me, He soothes my weary soul, He brings refreshment to my wounded and broken heart, He frees my broken and aching conscience--here God says, "I am yours, and you are Mine" not on account of anything we have done; but entirely on account of what Jesus has done.

So that I am always, and ever, at the receiving end of grace; my stoney heart continually turned to flesh. My old Adam drowned and put to death, and the new man refreshed, built up, strengthened, encouraged.

I am always a beggar, with nothing to offer God that could satisfy justice or make me right with Him; but He is always the dispenser of gifts, graciously giving me everything. So that at all times all I can ever do is thank Him and praise Him for what He has done. The sacrifice we bring to God is the sacrifice of praise--it is the only sacrifice we can offer, that of a grateful heart, a contrite heart, offered in praise of God for what He gives us.

And this happens in Word and Sacrament. And it is a full-person experience: for not only do I hear the Word as it is preached; but this same Word has washed me utterly in the water of Baptism; and this same Word is taken into me through the Supper. My very flesh is touched by the Word of God, the old man is to be utterly destroyed and the new man utterly alive. In this present life there is the struggle, the paradox between the two; I am simul iustus et peccator; both saint and sinner, righteous and unrighteous; but the day is coming when even these skin and bones will be raised up, transformed, and no trace of the old man is left; but only the new man which is in Christ, and alive even as He lives.

I am not a ghost within a shell of flesh; but a human person created to bear the Divine Image and Likeness; and so everything that is me is, ultimately, to be healed, restored, and saved which is what Christ has won for me, which is given to me as pure gift, the hope in which we have faith, and shall come to pass in it's total completeness when at long last Christ comes and it comes to pass, "Awake O sleeper, arise from the dead".

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sea level]

Exactly. And it is what God is continually declaring to us: He forgives us, we are forgiven. He comes down and justifies us, declares us righteous on Christ's account. He does this in Word and Sacrament. When we receive the Lord's Supper, not only are we proclaiming the Incarnation, Passion, and Atonement; but God is proclaiming His love, declaring our forgiveness, declaring us righteous on Christ's account; as pure grace, received passively through faith alone; faith which He Himself is giving, working, strengthening, creating in us.

So when I receive the body and blood of Jesus Christ, that it is for my comfort is not about sentimentality; but in that here God comforts me, He soothes my weary soul, He brings refreshment to my wounded and broken heart, He frees my broken and aching conscience--here God says, "I am yours, and you are Mine" not on account of anything we have done; but entirely on account of what Jesus has done.

So that I am always, and ever, at the receiving end of grace; my stoney heart continually turned to flesh. My old Adam drowned and put to death, and the new man refreshed, built up, strengthened, encouraged.

I am always a beggar, with nothing to offer God that could satisfy justice or make me right with Him; but He is always the dispenser of gifts, graciously giving me everything. So that at all times all I can ever do is thank Him and praise Him for what He has done. The sacrifice we bring to God is the sacrifice of praise--it is the only sacrifice we can offer, that of a grateful heart, a contrite heart, offered in praise of God for what He gives us.

And this happens in Word and Sacrament. And it is a full-person experience: for not only do I hear the Word as it is preached; but this same Word has washed me utterly in the water of Baptism; and this same Word is taken into me through the Supper. My very flesh is touched by the Word of God, the old man is to be utterly destroyed and the new man utterly alive. In this present life there is the struggle, the paradox between the two; I am simul iustus et peccator; both saint and sinner, righteous and unrighteous; but the day is coming when even these skin and bones will be raised up, transformed, and no trace of the old man is left; but only the new man which is in Christ, and alive even as He lives.

I am not a ghost within a shell of flesh; but a human person created to bear the Divine Image and Likeness; and so everything that is me is, ultimately, to be healed, restored, and saved which is what Christ has won for me, which is given to me as pure gift, the hope in which we have faith, and shall come to pass in it's total completeness when at long last Christ comes and it comes to pass, "Awake O sleeper, arise from the dead".

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you for your interpretive opinion, but I'm still wondering (per: OP) "Since the Sacrament is dependent on the Word, (even it's definition) why not have just the Word?" (as in "sola Scriptura")

 

[sea level]

Ink and paper can't do anything; and yet the Bible you hold in your hands is the very word of God, and it is living and active, powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword.

As I understand it, the Holy Spirit is inseparable from His Word (spoken, written, digitized etc.) and that's why it is active, powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword.

 

[ViaCrucis]

As I understand it, the Holy Spirit is inseparable from His Word (spoken, written, digitized etc.) and that's why it is active, powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword.

He, the Holy Spirit, is always present and active in the ministry of Word and Sacrament.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[CurtUtter]

Exactly. And it is what God is continually declaring to us: He forgives us, we are forgiven. He comes down and justifies us, declares us righteous on Christ's account. He does this in Word and Sacrament. When we receive the Lord's Supper, not only are we proclaiming the Incarnation, Passion, and Atonement; but God is proclaiming His love, declaring our forgiveness, declaring us righteous on Christ's account; as pure grace, received passively through faith alone; faith which He Himself is giving, working, strengthening, creating in us.

So when I receive the body and blood of Jesus Christ, that it is for my comfort is not about sentimentality; but in that here God comforts me, He soothes my weary soul, He brings refreshment to my wounded and broken heart, He frees my broken and aching conscience--here God says, "I am yours, and you are Mine" not on account of anything we have done; but entirely on account of what Jesus has done.

So that I am always, and ever, at the receiving end of grace; my stoney heart continually turned to flesh. My old Adam drowned and put to death, and the new man refreshed, built up, strengthened, encouraged.

I am always a beggar, with nothing to offer God that could satisfy justice or make me right with Him; but He is always the dispenser of gifts, graciously giving me everything. So that at all times all I can ever do is thank Him and praise Him for what He has done. The sacrifice we bring to God is the sacrifice of praise--it is the only sacrifice we can offer, that of a grateful heart, a contrite heart, offered in praise of God for what He gives us.

And this happens in Word and Sacrament. And it is a full-person experience: for not only do I hear the Word as it is preached; but this same Word has washed me utterly in the water of Baptism; and this same Word is taken into me through the Supper. My very flesh is touched by the Word of God, the old man is to be utterly destroyed and the new man utterly alive. In this present life there is the struggle, the paradox between the two; I am simul iustus et peccator; both saint and sinner, righteous and unrighteous; but the day is coming when even these skin and bones will be raised up, transformed, and no trace of the old man is left; but only the new man which is in Christ, and alive even as He lives.

I am not a ghost within a shell of flesh; but a human person created to bear the Divine Image and Likeness; and so everything that is me is, ultimately, to be healed, restored, and saved which is what Christ has won for me, which is given to me as pure gift, the hope in which we have faith, and shall come to pass in it's total completeness when at long last Christ comes and it comes to pass, "Awake O sleeper, arise from the dead".

-CryptoLutheran

So beautifully said! It is the mundane divine service that delivers exactly what we need. Always the simple and unspectacular Jesus uses to deliver us from death unto life. Our Christian history has complicated what Jesus said and gives through the Lord's Supper: "take eat, this is my body" and "take drink, this is my blood" for the forgiveness of sins. It should be administered every time the Word is preached.

 

[sea level]

He, the Holy Spirit, is always present and active in the ministry of Word and Sacrament.

-CryptoLutheran

Yes, but you had said, 'Ink and paper can't do anything;', that's why I included the Holy Spirit (as the One who convicts, empowers, enlightens, comforts, and continually points us to Jesus). I can't but help see the Word and His Spirit as sufficient in all things.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yes, but you had said, 'Ink and paper can't do anything;', that's why I included the Holy Spirit (as the One who convicts, empowers, enlightens, comforts, and continually points us to Jesus). I can't but help see the Word and His Spirit as sufficient in all things.

But you don't receive that Word unmediated. You receive that Word through mediation: In preaching, in the hearing and reading of Holy Scripture. There is no unmediated encounter with God, with His grace, it always comes mediated; God always comes to us through Means. You hear the Word preached with your ears, it comes to you in the audible sounds of the preacher's voice; you hear the Scriptures; you see, with your eyes, the words on the page, you hold in your hands God's precious and Holy Word in a tangible way, in the physical form of your printed Bible--ink and paper.

It is only ink and paper, but it is never only ink and paper. It is the living, life-giving, word of God. It is pure and unmerited grace, by the power and work of the Holy Spirit, who takes ink and paper, who takes audible sound--who takes water, and bread and wine--and makes them life-giving Means of Grace which gives you eternal life in Jesus Christ. It is never just ink and paper, it is never just the preacher, it is never just water or etc; it is always the work and power of God to give you faith, freely justify you, and offers the free and total gift of Himself, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Holy Trinity, that you should "know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent"; and what He has done, in the Life, Passion, Death, and Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ is yours, as free, unmerited, and entirely apart from you and what you have done. It is pure grace, through the free gift of faith, by which God not only takes you as His precious possession, but makes all of Himself and what He has done your possession through the free offering and giving of Himself.

You received that in your baptism.
You receive that every time you partake of the Lord's Supper.
You receive that whenever the Gospel is preached.
You receive that when you confess your sins and it is declared you are, on Christ's account, entirely, totally, and in every way forgiven.

God gives, He gives and He gives.
God comes down. God always comes down.
Christ, who loved you from before time and space, chased you down--continues to chase you down--as the infinitely loving and Good Shepherd who desires that not even the 1 out of a 100 little lambs should be lost.

He will chase you down, hunt you, to hell and back, to win you.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sea level]

But you don't receive that Word unmediated. You receive that Word through mediation: In preaching, in the hearing and reading of Holy Scripture. There is no unmediated encounter with God, with His grace, it always comes mediated; God always comes to us through Means. You hear the Word preached with your ears, it comes to you in the audible sounds of the preacher's voice; you hear the Scriptures; you see, with your eyes, the words on the page, you hold in your hands God's precious and Holy Word in a tangible way, in the physical form of your printed Bible--ink and paper.

It is only ink and paper, but it is never only ink and paper. It is the living, life-giving, word of God. It is pure and unmerited grace, by the power and work of the Holy Spirit, who takes ink and paper, who takes audible sound--who takes water, and bread and wine--and makes them life-giving Means of Grace which gives you eternal life in Jesus Christ. It is never just ink and paper, it is never just the preacher, it is never just water or etc; it is always the work and power of God to give you faith, freely justify you, and offers the free and total gift of Himself, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Holy Trinity, that you should "know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent"; and what He has done, in the Life, Passion, Death, and Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ is yours, as free, unmerited, and entirely apart from you and what you have done. It is pure grace, through the free gift of faith, by which God not only takes you as His precious possession, but makes all of Himself and what He has done your possession through the free offering and giving of Himself.

You received that in your baptism.
You receive that every time you partake of the Lord's Supper.
You receive that whenever the Gospel is preached.
You receive that when you confess your sins and it is declared you are, on Christ's account, entirely, totally, and in every way forgiven.

God gives, He gives and He gives.
God comes down. God always comes down.
Christ, who loved you from before time and space, chased you down--continues to chase you down--as the infinitely loving and Good Shepherd who desires that not even the 1 out of a 100 little lambs should be lost.

He will chase you down, hunt you, to hell and back, to win you.

-CryptoLutheran

1 Timothy 2:5 KJV
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, I see little difference.

The issue here is the sufficiency of Christ.


2 Timothy 3:15 BSB
From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

The issue here is the sufficiency of Scripture.

Whatever happened to the Solas of the Lutheran Reformation? Now we have sacerdotalism in the form of mediators. This sounds like a move back to Rome, I see little difference.