Russia double-tap strikes 20-truck aid convoy in Syria

[TagliatelliMonster]

I did not say it's all faked. The fact is the entire Arab spring now Arab winter was caused by western meddling.

There are now 30 factions fighting in the area, they are all militarized, meaning the west has armed everyone to the teeth, it's a world war. Everyone has their own interests and survival in mind and I wish we would have left everyone alone to govern their own affairs without external interference.
But the entire fiasco falls on the U.S. State department and NATO(and by extention the Anglo-hegemony and Europe ). It's their baby and they deserve ALL the blame. And the American people have figured out how full of it the psychopaths of the pentagon and CIA and their "allies" truly are .

While "the west" certainly isn't blameless, it is counter productive and a complete miss of the real underlying problems to put ALL the blame on them.

It's one thing to "meddle" and provide weapons.
The people actually doing the fighting still have to pick up the weapons and march to war.

Sure, there is a (good) case to be made that certain external parties poured a bunch of oil on the fire. But the oil only burns, because the fire was already there.

Consider this: no amount of meddling in an "old europe" country would make that country plummeth into a brutal civil war with that many factions (most of which aren't even from said country) trying to kill eachother.

All that hatred, animosity and division required for something like that to happen, was already present in those regions. And that is entirely their own responsability.

Without that, no amount of meddling would have resulted in the current situation.

From day 1, I've always said that this "arab spring" really isn't something to rejoice. It was crystal clear from the beginning that it was a bad thing. That it was just a way for fundamentalists and barbarians to seize power and set the entire region in flames.

Not a SINGLE country where this "spring" took place, was better off afterwards. Not a single one. Instead, it opened a can of worms that nobody seems to be able (or willing) to close again.

It's a hellhole and I don't see it improving any time soon. And to blame "the west" for it, completely misses the real causes.

Yes, "the west" played a dirty role at times. But these "dirty roles" would have been entirely without consequence, if it weren't for the deeply rooted problems that were already present.

And those problems are quite simply tribe mentality and religious fundamentalism.

They need to get their act together and they can only do that themselves. As long as these people stay in the dark due to their obsessive cultural heritage and fundamentalistic religious views, nothing will change. No matter what "the west" does.

 

[Armoured]

it's a world war.

Ugh.

 

[buzuxi02]

Consider this: no amount of meddling in an "old europe" country would make that country plummeth into a brutal civil war with that many factions (most of which aren't even from said country) trying to kill eachother.

All that hatred, animosity and division required for something like that to happen, was already present in those regions. And that is entirely their own responsability.

As you say most are not even from that country meaning they are being recruited. The foreign fighters are trained, financed and lethally equipped and get logistics from somewhere else, and I think we all know from whom. The Syrian army has been the only army with success against ISIS.
The west has schizophrenia, trying to accomplish two tasks, that is regime change by using proxy terrorists, training and arming every rebel faction to the teeth while trying to contain them to the task at hand. If they wander too far off the reservation they are no longer labeled as 'moderates' and the west then plays the hippocrite claiming they are going after terrorists! When they are not going after terrorists they mistakenly drone or bomb Assads legal sovereign army like the fiasco of last week. The amount of hubris is appalling. This news article and video (graphic) demonstrates the insanity of the inept U.S. State Department, CIA and Nato who is responsible for funding these terrorists. The title of the article says it all, "And these are the good guys!":
US-backed Nour al-Din al-Zenki behead boy accused of being al-Quds spy for Assad | Daily Mail Online


And more of the west's insanity paid for by our tax dollars:
In Syria, militias armed by the Pentagon fight those armed by the CIA - LA Times

From day 1, I've always said that this "arab spring" really isn't something to rejoice. It was crystal clear from the beginning that it was a bad thing. That it was just a way for fundamentalists and barbarians to seize power and set the entire region in flames.

Not a SINGLE country where this "spring" took place, was better off afterwards. Not a single one. Instead, it opened a can of worms that nobody seems to be able (or willing) to close again.

Agree.

 

[Armoured]

The Syrian army has been the only army with success against ISIS.

*cough cough* Kurds *cough* Australians *cough cough*

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

As you say most are not even from that country meaning they are being recruited. The foreign fighters are trained, financed and lethally equipped and get logistics from somewhere else, and I think we all know from whom.

Yes: islamists. No, not "the west".

The hundreds, thousands, of young morrocans, algerians, tunesians etc that left their western homelands to go there, were not sent there by the CIA or whatever other conspiracy nonsense you wish to buy into or imply.

The Syrian army has been the only army with success against ISIS.

That is simply not true. The pushback of ISIS was/is a team effort. No single faction can take sole credit for that.

The west has schizophrenia, trying to accomplish two tasks, that is regime change by using proxy terrorists, training and arming every rebel faction to the teeth while trying to contain them to the task at hand.

I'ld rather state that "the west", in general, does what it can with the tools/people at their disposal. Like I said, it's a can of worms that was waiting to be opened. No matter who opens that can, be it "the west" or someone else, worms still come out.

There is nothing "the west" can do, imo, to avoid those worms or contain them. It's simply far to entrenched in those societies. Only the people in those societies can eradicate these worms. And they won't be able to do so without much blood on both sides. No matter what the west does.

As a wise Roman slave once said "Freedom and dignity is not something that can be granted or given to you... it's something you need to take yourself. By force if necessary."

It's how we, in the secular west, kicked pastors out of our private and public lives and it is how the people in the middle east will have to do it as well.

As the other infamous saying goes "You can't bomb an ideology"

If they wander too far off the reservation they are no longer labeled as 'moderates' and the west then plays the hippocrite claiming they are going after terrorists! When they are not going after terrorists they mistakenly drone or bomb Assads legal sovereign army like the fiasco of last week. The amount of hubris is appalling. This news article and video (graphic) demonstrates the insanity of the inept U.S. State Department, CIA and Nato who is responsible for funding these terrorists. The title of the article says it all, "And these are the good guys!":
US-backed Nour al-Din al-Zenki behead boy accused of being al-Quds spy for Assad | Daily Mail Online

And more of the west's insanity paid for by our tax dollars:
In Syria, militias armed by the Pentagon fight those armed by the CIA - LA Times

It's kind of hard to find out who are your "friends" and who are your "enemies" when meddling into a war that literally has multiple opposing factions.
I can also imagine that it's rather easy to make "mistakes" when it comes to targetting, when you have to work in such chaotic conditions.

The "friends" of today are the enemies of yesterday or tomorrow.

It's that can of worms again. It's also the general background of all the different factions. Some time ago, "LoveBeingMuslimah" posted stuff about how a town was "liberated" and how good it was.

In reality, what really happened was that the fundamentalists belonging to al-nusra (still a branch of al-qaida back then), took over a town from ISIS fundamentalists.

She posted pictures of people "rejoicing" the "liberation", but unsurprisingly, not a single woman or girl was seen in those pictures. The reason is rather obvious. This al-nusra scum is of the same caliber as that IS scum. They are enemies of eachother, but they have more in common then anything else.

Not long after that "liberation", it became clear just how similar they are. Public beheadings and all that stuff.... And off course, not only did LoveBeingMuslimah ignore those things, she actually actively denied it as well.

Perhaps I'm overly pessimistic about the whole thing...
But I really don't see this coming to an end any time soon.

I suspect that at some point, one of those countries is going to say "enough" and then march unto a BRUTAL and indiscriminate conquest to restore order. And they'll be once again subdued by some brutal dictatorship.

And then a couple decades later, there'll be optimism again for a new "arab spring", which will have the same results as the last one.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

The US won't go to war because it can't.

Fact: The US has been bombing the rebels since it got militarily involved in Syria in 2014. It doesn't just target ISIS but rebels too. It's unapologetic about it.

Fact: The one and only time the US hit Assad's genocidal forces was an accident and the US is even considering giving compensation for those killed!!

Fact: The US proposed a "ceasefire" deal with Russia where the rebels would cease firing and advancing while Russia and the US would coordinate attacks on rebel groups.

Fact: The US threatened rebel groups that if they didn't distance themselves from Jabhat Fateh ash-Sham, that there would be severe consequences.

Fact: The US has never threatened Hezbollah or those fighting alongside it even though it is a designated terrorist group.

Fact: The US made a clause in its train-and-equip program that the rebels could only fight against ISIS and not the regime. Of course this didn't attract a lot of rebels and the program died.

Fact: The US threatened the Southern Front rebels after they were making significant gains against the regime in 2015 in a string of rebel victories. They went from being a very active front to being dead silent; there have been protests in the region from those fed up with this complacency while the rest of Syria is being ethnically cleansed/starved/killed in a genocide. Some of those instigators were beaten.

Fact: The US prevents certain weapons from being delivered (specifically anti-aircraft weapons)

Fact: Assad/allies are responsible for 96% of documented civilian casualties. Assad/allies are the only ones to deliberately and repeatedly hit hospitals, schools, ambulances, first responders, aid convoys, refugee camps, masjids, etc.

Funny way to support the rebels and be against Assad. This has got to be the most incompetent, convoluted plan ever to "oppose" Assad.

And I'm calling the Sunni''s the terrorists who do not belong in Syria. They are not natives, the natives are the Roum and Syriac and alawhites, the Sunni's are the only ones that created this mess, the same way they are slaughtering the houthis in Yemen

The vast majority of the Syrian rebels are indigenous. The vast majority of those fighting for Assad are not.

Hundreds of Syrian troops and an estimated 5,000 foreign Shia fighters plan imminent advance into besieged area of city
Sectarian fighters mass for battle to capture east Aleppo

"In fact, it is now clear it was an eccentric multinational force that took Palmyra. Analysis of photographs, social media posts and Iranian, Russian and even Syrian media has shown that the path was led by the Russians, with much of the “grunt” work done by Afghan Shia and Iraqi militiamen under generals from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard."Where are the Syrians in Assad's Syrian Arab Army?

 

[Vylo]

yes the protests were indeed western backed agitators, just like those color revolutions, just like the failed umbrella protests in Hong kong, just like the Maiden in Ukraine. Now do you condemn the western backed Saudi''s for slaughtering the Houthi''s in Yemen?
Secondly Assad would not have been toppled as half the population likes him, the half who are native indigenous not the new comers called sunnis. Russia has only been involved in Syria less than a year, the west has been arming "moderates" for 5 years now, even Nato has been operating in the region. Do you know that some rebel factions are trained by the pentagon and others by the CIA and those groups are also fighting each other? Then you have ISIS another western invention sometimes backed by the Turks sometimes not, then you have the Kurds fighting Isis, but being bombed by NATO member Turkey. Then you have the psychopathic Israelis who want Assad to go because they believe the devil they dont know (Isis and company) will be better than the devil they know(hezbollah).

Sunnis make up nearly 3/4 of the Syrian population not half, and they are not newcomers, they were citizens living there.

 

[Vylo]

The US won't go to war because it can't.

Uh, we have nearly the entire rest of the world's budget in military spending and a standing army of over 1 million. We can definitely go to war. In fact we've been in active conflicts nearly 90% of history.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

The accusation that Assad starves people in his own country is one horrific point in this story. However, during a ceasefire that Russia would drone surveil and then bomb a humanitarian aid convoy that is bringing food and medical supplies to the needy, is obscene.

The Russians didn't get the ceasefire memo? What could possibly be Russia's point in all this? They support Assad's regime so they want to help insure cut off Syrians starve to death? To what end?

Evil! Who can understand it? God be with those who suffered in the attack. And have mercy on all who perish in Syria. Amen.

 

[Douger]

The accusation that Assad starves people in his own country is one horrific point in this story. However, during a ceasefire that Russia would drone surveil and then bomb a humanitarian aid convoy that is bringing food and medical supplies to the needy, is obscene.

The Russians didn't get the ceasefire memo? What could possibly be Russia's point in all this? They support Assad's regime so they want to help insure cut off Syrians starve to death? To what end?

Evil! Who can understand it? God be with those who suffered in the attack. And have mercy on all who perish in Syria. Amen.

Russia didn't do it, that story makes no sense. Whoever did it had an interest in destroying the proposed US/Russian alliance and giving clout to regime change proponents, and all this at the expense of aid agencies with strong ties to the Syrian government.

It was a lose, lose, lose, lose, lose scenario for Russia and the Syrian government.

 

[buzuxi02]

Uh, we have nearly the entire rest of the world's budget in military spending and a standing army of over 1 million. We can definitely go to war. In fact we've been in active conflicts nearly 90% of history.

Sorry, I should have said cannot put boots on the ground, that is enough boots if it involves direct conflict with a Russian backed Syrian army, just as we didn't dare go into Ukraine.

The reason is American kids no longer fall for the nonsense coming from the neo-cons and warhawks. If you have sons or daughters would you encourage them to enlist? It would not matter because your kids would literally give you the finger. Such hubris is quite fascinating, "send the American boys to Aleppo".
In the presidential debates our obligations and treaties towards Japan were brought up, that we must honor them and defend Japan from a China invasion. Who exactly do these old timers expect to fight in a war with China over Japan? One million men is nothing especially when you need to fight on many fronts, go ahead bring back conscription and see what happens. And yes we have been in conflicts 90%of the time and lost 80% of the time. We can't even pacify a bunch of sheep herders in Afghanistan.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Russia didn't do it, that story makes no sense. Whoever did it had an interest in destroying the proposed US/Russian alliance and giving clout to regime change proponents, and all this at the expense of aid agencies with strong ties to the Syrian government.

It was a lose, lose, lose, lose, lose scenario for Russia and the Syrian government.

So who could have done this using Russia as a cover? Because it doesn't make sense, you're right.

 

[buzuxi02]

So who could have done this using Russia as a cover? Because it doesn't make sense, you're right.

One place to start is the organization that supposedly were the first responders and even were ready with cameras, the White Helmets. Hint: NGO funded by your tax dollars.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

From day 1, I've always said that this "arab spring" really isn't something to rejoice. It was crystal clear from the beginning that it was a bad thing. That it was just a way for fundamentalists and barbarians to seize power and set the entire region in flames.

Not a SINGLE country where this "spring" took place, was better off afterwards. Not a single one. Instead, it opened a can of worms that nobody seems to be able (or willing) to close again.

Tunisia is not worse off (nor was its leader as bad as Mubarak who was not as bad/crazy as Gaddafi who was not as bad as Assad. Given the progressively more brutal dictators to remove, it makes sense the others have a harder time getting their countries out of their leaders' grips).

Libya has the prospect of a better future now than it would have had under Gaddafi. There will be growing pains but at least now they can talk about politics without fear of arrest. We should probably stop lending our support to Gaddafi's men. Maybe we shouldn't have supported the military coup against the democratically-elected Morsi that allowed Sisi (a Mubarak loyalist) to come back to power. Maybe we shouldn't support Assad's regime, which has been responsible for most of the civilian deaths in Syria.

The Syrian army has been the only army with success against ISIS.

I don't think ignoring ISIS is called success.

Rebels, on the other hand, had been fighting against ISIS since 2013 (and more in 2014) before ISIS even became a household name. They, without US-support or any air cover, had and continue to have sustained victories against them. This despite being attacked on so many fronts: by Assad, Russia, Hezbollah, IRGC and other Iranians, Iraqi & Afghan & Pakistani Iranian-backed militias, the YPG, Cambodians, and the US and the coalition.

US-backed Nour al-Din al-Zenki behead boy accused of being al-Quds spy for Assad | Daily Mail Online

1.) He was a combatant and his ID said he was in his late teens.
2.) The ones who beheaded him were arrested. The beheading was not sanctioned by the group.
3.) Look up the Houla massacre in 2011 where regime forces entered Sunni houses one by one and slaughtered families. Some children were found with their throats slit, others with their heads imploded.

It's that can of worms again. It's also the general background of all the different factions. Some time ago, "LoveBeingMuslimah" posted stuff about how a town was "liberated" and how good it was.

In reality, what really happened was that the fundamentalists belonging to al-nusra (still a branch of al-qaida back then), took over a town from ISIS fundamentalists.

She posted pictures of people "rejoicing" the "liberation", but unsurprisingly, not a single woman or girl was seen in those pictures. The reason is rather obvious. This al-nusra scum is of the same caliber as that IS scum. They are enemies of eachother, but they have more in common then anything else.

Not long after that "liberation", it became clear just how similar they are. Public beheadings and all that stuff.... And off course, not only did LoveBeingMuslimah ignore those things, she actually actively denied it as well.

1.) Idlib's control was wrested from the regime. Not ISIS lol. Though I guess one can argue that the regime and ISIS are allies at times.
Assad Regime Loses Idlib to Jabhat al-Nusra and Rebel Offensive

2.) Sunni Syrians as a whole tend to be more conservative Muslims. Sometimes when women go into mixed gatherings or come in front of the camera, they'll cover their faces even if they normally don't. When women are dug out of the rubble, they are usually not filmed (or if they are, the footage is not broadcast) out of respect for them, particularly if they were without hijab since they were in their homes. Injured women in hospitals are generally not filmed unless they agreed to be interviewed.

3.) Here is Idlib 3 months after it was liberated by the rebels. Here you can see some of the women you seem so concerned about:

And here is Idlib in 2012 when they were protesting against Assad. Notice the separate 'block' where there are only women. There are women on the roofs too, but there was a special place reserved for them on the ground. This shows that they've tend to segregate based on gender in mixed gatherings even before the 2015 rebel victory:

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

So who could have done this using Russia as a cover? Because it doesn't make sense, you're right.

Only Assad and Russia have air power in this conflict. The only others who fly in Syria are the US and the coalition (to target ISIS as well as the rebels) and they weren't flying over that region.

They are the only ones who have shown to repeatedly and intentionally target hospitals and refugee camps among other civilian targets. Their denials mean nothing. Russia denied using cluster munitions and Assad denied using barrel bombs but both of those denials are demonstrably false. Assad also denies using chemical weapons but the UN found that Assad has used them.

It was, without a doubt, Assad and/or Putin.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Only Assad and Russia have air power in this conflict. The only others who fly in Syria are the US and the coalition (to target ISIS as well as the rebels) and they weren't flying over that region.

They are the only ones who have shown to repeatedly and intentionally target hospitals and refugee camps among other civilian targets. Their denials mean nothing. Russia denied using cluster munitions and Assad denied using barrel bombs but both of those denials are demonstrably false. Assad also denies using chemical weapons but the UN found that Assad has used them.

It was, without a doubt, Assad and/or Putin.

The sneaks of war.

 

[buzuxi02]

lol, the Russians and Syrians are the only ones to target hospitals!!!

German NATO General Harald Kujat in an interview also said highly unlikely Syrian or Russian involvement. His theory is the rebels most likely destroyed the convoy to put an end to the ceasefire. Coordinated Russian and U.S. forces would have spelled an end to the role of so called moderate rebels. This would also mean the White Helmets are another moderate group gone rogue.

 

[Douger]

So who could have done this using Russia as a cover? Because it doesn't make sense, you're right.

Personally, I think it was Al Qaeda. They literally had to do something to torpedo the deal, or else they would be facing destruction by US airpower. The US government is so thoroughly stocked with war loving rats that the US government will by default take any violent event as motivation to further destabilize the Middle East.
So for the survival of the Al Qaeda groups (Fateh al Sham in this instance) they only had to provide such an event and then hope the US would act the way it usually does, which would destroy the proposed cooperation with Russia and Syria.

John Kerry is a weakminded fellow, being led around by Washington's Neconservatives and the royals of Saudi Arabia and Qatar. I don't think he had the guts to buck the tide and really fight for peace, and it was all to easy for him to use the attack as an excuse to fall back on blaming Russia and calling for regime change. Blaming Russia and calling for regime change has been a sound move for career politicians for the past 70 years.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Tunisia is not worse off (nor was its leader as bad as Mubarak who was not as bad/crazy as Gaddafi who was not as bad as Assad. Given the progressively more brutal dictators to remove, it makes sense the others have a harder time getting their countries out of their leaders' grips).

Libya has the prospect of a better future now than it would have had under Gaddafi. There will be growing pains but at least now they can talk about politics without fear of arrest. We should probably stop lending our support to Gaddafi's men. Maybe we shouldn't have supported the military coup against the democratically-elected Morsi that allowed Sisi (a Mubarak loyalist) to come back to power. Maybe we shouldn't support Assad's regime, which has been responsible for most of the civilian deaths in Syria.

Maybe we should not meddle at all in any of their affairs.
As the Roman slave said: freedom and dignity is not something that can be given to you.

When the US invaded Iraq, they said "we bring democracy". In reality, they brought chaos and paved the way for militia's to seize power.

Saddam warned them for that. He literally said that "these people only understand rule by iron fist... this culture is not ready for freedom and democracy". It seems he was correct.

1.) Idlib's control was wrested from the regime. Not ISIS lol. Though I guess one can argue that the regime and ISIS are allies at times.
Assad Regime Loses Idlib to Jabhat al-Nusra and Rebel Offensive

2.) Sunni Syrians as a whole tend to be more conservative Muslims. Sometimes when women go into mixed gatherings or come in front of the camera, they'll cover their faces even if they normally don't. When women are dug out of the rubble, they are usually not filmed (or if they are, the footage is not broadcast) out of respect for them, particularly if they were without hijab since they were in their homes. Injured women in hospitals are generally not filmed unless they agreed to be interviewed.

3.) Here is Idlib 3 months after it was liberated by the rebels. Here you can see some of the women you seem so concerned about:

And here is Idlib in 2012 when they were protesting against Assad. Notice the separate 'block' where there are only women. There are women on the roofs too, but there was a special place reserved for them on the ground. This shows that they've tend to segregate based on gender in mixed gatherings even before the 2015 rebel victory:

Now post the clips of the public execution of "witches".