Remodeling the Bible as a book of truth instead of a book of myths

BobRyan

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Many Christians accept the Bible as a book of truth - it contains truth - about things in this life, about history, and about things to come both in this world and in heaven.

Others may mock them as "virgin birthists" or "world wide floodist" or "resurrection-ists" or "creation-ists" etc.

But this does not change the fact that the Bible is true - and declares actual truth for this life and the life to come.

This is so glaringly obvious that a great many atheists upon reading the Bible and finding it to be factual - turn from atheism to Christianity on the "Bible is TRUE after all" model rather than "Well what do you know - the Bible really IS myth" model.

Dawkins, Provine, P.Z.Meyers and many other atheists admit that they used to be Christians until they discovered the Bible to be myth and THEN they became atheist/agnostic.

For many this is simply stating the obvious.

How about you?

in Christ,

Bob
 
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Hi Bob!

Could you please supply the a link to the source which clearly shows the cause-and-effect you claim occurred..?

That is, Richard Dawkins used to be a Christian until he discovered that the Bible was myth (the cause) and then he became an atheist/agnostic (the effect).

Thanks,

E.I.
 
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Gottservant

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A myth told as truth, crushes _ . until only the point last lead most strongly (as prophecied or decreed . . .) remains.

This neither is nor ever would be (law).

Contradiction to such, actually warrants being hauled before the council of the governor general (whether _ . _ disclosed heaven, earth, or (Hell) "at all").
 
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Willtor

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Hi Bob!

Could you please supply the a link to the source which clearly shows the cause-and-effect you claim occurred..?

That is, Richard Dawkins used to be a Christian until he discovered that the Bible was myth (the cause) and then he became an atheist/agnostic (the effect).

Thanks,

E.I.

Ooops! Sorry, but I'm not allowed to post here.

Please disregard my question, Bob.

Thanks,

E.I.

It's a valid question -- I'll ask it.
 
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Gary the Kid

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I believe the Bible has been changed..............I my self will not go to the New Heaven the one that has the hybrid living human-animals beings. Nor will I go to the New Earth. The one with the seven eyed, seven horned lamb. So is the Bible True and or symbolic........... If the Romans lied or scribes changed the timeline on the death of Jesus. Then the Father did or did not slay his son by Blade.........So what Blood do you choose and which Water do you choose. The Gospels do not mention the Blood from any whippings or puncture wound........But you sure see it in the Mel Gibson Movie. And I keep thinking about that ugly little kid's name that the good looking Satan was holding..........Meanwhile the Blood and Water were gushing from the Side of the Son of God..........but it's dead blood and water, as we are all told...........creation never lies........Tick Tock Tick Tock...........The Temple is Open.......Yet no ones goes in.........They would rather argue about days and what creation thinks, says and does........Tick Tock......At the end, does the Temple Curtain Close, just like the Split Red Sea........ Matt 7:14, So is the Word "Few" True? Still can't understand why there is TWO kids mentioned in Luke.....??? TWO Kids, TWO Sabbath's, Why? Tick................................
 
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DrBubbaLove

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Am not convinced the OPs is correctly stating the position. It cannot be a case of we accept or reject the Bible is true. It could be a case of we accept or reject what someone claims the Bible says. So the dilemma proposed is false and I suspect the choice we are being asked to make is simply a choice to agree or disagree with him on any particular matter, but only if we agree can we be said to accept/agree the Bible is true. Whereas we should all presume as Christians that the Bible is true, the Inspired Word of God and expresses truths. Any doubt some Christians may have that the Bible is true can only come about as an error on our part, typically in our understanding of Scripture and certainly NOT the fault of Word itself.

In other threads he poses a similar dilemma; either we read and accept from a given verse that it means what he claims it means or we are considered as rejecting what the Bible says or how it reads. At the same time if we pose other verses where the Bible can clearly be read and accepted as meaning something he claims that it can be rejected, presumably solely because it disagrees with what he believes to be true - though he has yet told us how he decides which verses to read and accept over which to read and reject. He does clearly make such choices. So once again the dilemma presented is false and in that case appears somewhat dishonest.
 
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BobRyan

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Many Christians accept the Bible as a book of truth - it contains truth - about things in this life, about history, and about things to come both in this world and in heaven.

Others may mock them as "virgin birthists" or "world wide floodist" or "resurrection-ists" or "creation-ists" etc.

But this does not change the fact that the Bible is true - and declares actual truth for this life and the life to come.

This is so glaringly obvious that a great many atheists upon reading the Bible and finding it to be factual - turn from atheism to Christianity on the "Bible is TRUE after all" model rather than "Well what do you know - the Bible really IS myth" model.

Dawkins, Provine, P.Z.Meyers and many other atheists admit that they used to be Christians until they discovered the Bible to be myth and THEN they became atheist/agnostic.

For many this is simply stating the obvious.


Am not convinced the OPs is correctly stating the position. It cannot be a case of we accept or reject the Bible is true.

Indeed it "can" be that case when it comes to origins and all the other miracles in the Bible.

It "can" also be the case that many who adopt the atheists religious conviction on origins by downsizing the history as given in the Bible - do so without fully understanding the self-conflicted position they are taking.

It could be a case of we accept or reject what someone claims the Bible says.

indeed by holding the Bible at a great enough "distance" and then claiming any "conflict between the Bible on origins and evolutionism on origins" noticed by others paying more attention to those details - is an imaginary one - only works until they start paying attention to the details themselves.


In other threads he poses a similar dilemma; either we read and accept from a given verse that it means what he claims it means or we are considered as rejecting what the Bible says or how it reads. At the same time if we pose other verses where the Bible can clearly be read and accepted as meaning something he claims that it can be rejected, presumably solely because it disagrees with what he believes to be true - though he has yet told us how he decides which verses to read and accept over which to read and reject. He does clearly make such choices. So once again the dilemma presented is false and in that case appears somewhat dishonest.

totally false as has been shown previously.

James Barr is an atheist - he is admitting to what the text says -- not because he prefers to believe that Bible statement on origins - but because the text is incredibly obvious - so much so that there is 'no professor' of Hebrew studies in any world class university that takes the downsize/bend/twist solutions intended to meld Moses' text into Darwin's text as if they dovetail - seriously.
======================================
Hebrew scholars of standing have always regarded this to be the case. Thus, Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford, has written:

‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that: (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story (c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark. Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.’

======================================

As the OP states "Others may mock them as "virgin birthists" or "world wide floodist" or "resurrection-ists" or "creation-ists" etc."

My guess is that you also pick-and-choose in that list which Bible histories in that list - to believe and which ones to dismiss as "mere myth".

I accept all the ones in that list as historic fact.
 
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BobRyan

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Hi Bob!

Could you please supply the a link to the source which clearly shows the cause-and-effect you claim occurred..?

That is, Richard Dawkins used to be a Christian until he discovered that the Bible was myth (the cause) and then he became an atheist/agnostic (the effect).

Thanks,

E.I.

Dawkins admits it on camera in the movie "expelled: no intelligence allowed" when interviewed on that point.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Anyone that rejects God simply because the Bible is not a history book is quite shallow don't you think? I would hope an educated person would have the means to be able to understand that not every truth can be expressed as easily as a mere historical fact can be and if one is trying to express such a truth it might entail more than mere recitation of the details of something that happened that they were not a witness to. The Genesis account may or may not be scientifically/historically accurate about some details of how creation came into being but the truth that inspired the biblical account is something I have no doubt about. When it is impossible to accurately describe something in the language we have at our disposal,then criticizing a book that attempts to express the inexpressible because the details may not be accurate according to some unrelated standard of accuracy that is based upon something that is not what is being examined by the book in question is not exactly useful in understanding the concepts that the book is attempting to examine. For instance, when Jesus uses a parable to teach a lesson on the Kingdom the fact that those parable stories never actually took place in the physical world does not make Jesus' point about the Kingdom false.
 
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-57

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Anyone that rejects God simply because the Bible is not a history book is quite shallow don't you think? I would hope an educated person would have the means to be able to understand that not every truth can be expressed as easily as a mere historical fact can be and if one is trying to express such a truth it might entail more than mere recitation of the details of something that happened that they were not a witness to. The Genesis account may or may not be scientifically/historically accurate about some details of how creation came into being but the truth that inspired the biblical account is something I have no doubt about. When it is impossible to accurately describe something in the language we have at our disposal,then criticizing a book that attempts to express the inexpressible because the details may not be accurate according to some unrelated standard of accuracy that is based upon something that is not what is being examined by the book in question is not exactly useful in understanding the concepts that the book is attempting to examine. For instance, when Jesus uses a parable to teach a lesson on the Kingdom the fact that those parable stories never actually took place in the physical world does not make Jesus' point about the Kingdom false.

grasping the after wind, I would consider the concept of Genesis as being non-literal if those who had written about "Genesis" didn't present it as a literal historical account.
For example Paul instructs women in 1st Tim 2:13ish with reasoning based upon the literal fall in the Garden.
"13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression"

One has to ask, why would Paul instruct women based upon a myth or parable?
 
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Willtor

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grasping the after wind, I would consider the concept of Genesis as being non-literal if those who had written about "Genesis" didn't present it as a literal historical account.
For example Paul instructs women in 1st Tim 2:13ish with reasoning based upon the literal fall in the Garden.
"13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression"

One has to ask, why would Paul instruct women based upon a myth or parable?

Why would Jesus? Why would anybody? Because that's what myths and parables are for.
 
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Jahrooshshalom

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The only ones that believe the Bible is a book of myths are the godless for whom it is intended to forewarn their fate should they not turn their lives to God.
That the Bible is and remains a book of truths for Christians is all that matters. The remodeling that needs be accomplished therefore is regarding the atheists. Not the Bible.
 
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-57

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Why would Jesus? Why would anybody? Because that's what myths and parables are for.

I'm trying to understand your answer but it doesn't make sense. Why would Paul base instructions on an event that didn't happen?

Here it is again...Paul uses Genesis as literal "3But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ."
 
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Willtor

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I'm trying to understand your answer but it doesn't make sense. Why would Paul base instructions on an event that didn't happen?

Here it is again...Paul uses Genesis as literal "3But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ."

My answer was that Jesus used parables, even though they contained events that didn't actually happen in history, to instruct people on how to live and behave. That's what myth and parables are for. Those kinds of literature exist for that purpose.
 
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-57

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My answer was that Jesus used parables, even though they contained events that didn't actually happen in history, to instruct people on how to live and behave. That's what myth and parables are for. Those kinds of literature exist for that purpose.

Yes, Jesus did use parables....but in these instances Paul was using them as literal and historical.

Acts 17:26 is also presented as literal "And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,"
...That one man would be Adam. Not some near human ancestor.

There's more. 1st Cor 15:21 also speaks of one man.....20But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:12 tells of that death. Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Considering much of the language speaks of the need for Jesus to die...physically...it stands to reason the death caused by Adam's fall was also physical.
 
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Willtor

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Yes, Jesus did use parables....but in these instances Paul was using them as literal and historical.

So you say. The point is, the question is answered: "One has to ask, why would Paul instruct women based upon a myth or parable?" Because those are good tools for instruction.

Acts 17:26 is also presented as literal "And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,"
...That one man would be Adam. Not some near human ancestor.

There's more. 1st Cor 15:21 also speaks of one man.....20But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:12 tells of that death. Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Considering much of the language speaks of the need for Jesus to die...physically...it stands to reason the death caused by Adam's fall was also physical.

I hate to break it to you: We're still going to die, physically. This was actually a big confusion I had as a little child: Surely, everyone could see that Christians don't die! Turns out, not so much. But this is starting to get off-topic. If you want to quote this for the purpose of response, bring it into the other thread where it's closer to the topic.
 
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