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Remembering JFK

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by WarriorAngel, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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    On November 22,1963, President John F. Kennedy was cut down by an assassin's bullets. He had been on his way to deliver a speech that ended with these words: "We in this country, in this generation, are--by destiny rather than choice--the watchmen on the walls of world freedom. We ask, therefore, that we may be worthy of our power and responsibility, that we may be worthy of our power and responsibility, that we may exercise our strength with wisdom and restraint, and that we may achieve in our time and for all time the ancient vision of peace on earth, goodwill toward men. That must always be our goal...For as was written long ago, 'Except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.'"
     
  2. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 Nobody important Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Ambassador

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    Bobby would have been a great president too. And John Kennedy Jr.
     
  3. eastcoast_bsc

    eastcoast_bsc Veteran

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    The Irish in Boston knew they arrived the night John Kennedy was elected. My mother and father spoke of how everyone stayed up all night, some cried when he was elected.

    Here is the Boston garden on election evening. it was packed.

    JFK Election Eve Boston Garden - YouTube


    The day he was assassinated, I was a very young kid. I remember my Father came home from work early. The Union on hearing of the assassination , sent workers home. I was confused at my Mother crying when she heard the news.

    JFK made a deep impression on me. He set an example for us, that we could be achieve greatness. he was one of us.
     
  4. S.ilvio

    S.ilvio Newbie

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    There is a cohort of people in Ireland who almost bow their heads when JFK is mentioned.

    Sure he was of Irish extraction and was a celebrity President.

    But lets face it. He took his Catholicism with a shovel full of salt. He had the morals of an alleycat and showed massive disrespect to his wife and children with his philandeing. He was very slow to embrace Ciivl rights in the South and has a less than upstanding record on Vietnam.

    As for Ireland? What did he do to promote unification in his 1,000 days in Office? Naff all is the answer.

    I see Eastcoast says he was 'one of us'. How many of 'you' was born with a silver ladel in your mouth, went to Harvard, had a meglomaniac father who pulled strings for you to climb up the political greasy pole and had a harem of women on tap while you were supposedly a loyal husband and father?

    His assassination was a tragedy of course and a direct attack on American democracy...
     
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  5. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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    JFK was an Irish Cartholic - so that's what eastcoast meant.

    And - JFK was a sinner - like all of us.

    Now, i liked JFK - my dad pounded that into me. ;) He opened up new heights for Catholics and Irish in the political world.

    As for his sins - thank goodness for priests and the sacrament.
    However; its a shame scandals surrounded his life. If only...
     
  6. S.ilvio

    S.ilvio Newbie

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    Like I never sinned, right???

    JFK was a flawed human being who cared little for his wife and had massive mysoginistic tendancies. Harold McMillan once quoted JFK in a memoir saying that if he didn't have a different woman each day he'd get an intolerable headache.

    Did nothing for Ireland as he never wished to upset the British.

    He continually disrespected his religious background and was about as Blue Collar Irish as Lord Fontelroy.

    That being said his assassination was a tragedy for his family and followers...
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
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  7. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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    I cant speak for the man. I didnt know his heart.
    From the exterior we all look horrendous.

    And... since his death - and him not being around to deny any allegations - all kinds of things can be said about him. I dont doubt rumor mills and wagging tongues who need an audience - get a lot of coverage.

    After all - it gives them 15 minutes of fame to speak out.
    Now, maybe he did those things - i dont know.
    His wife never said he mistreated her. ..to my knowledge.

    But in America - he set the way for Catholics to be in the political sphere.
    And at one time - my Irish friend - the Irish were enslaved in America. Many dont know that. Many dont know the prejudices they had to fight to be given respect.

    So, in Ireland - maybe he didnt 'go to bat for you...'
    But here - where Catholicism and Catholics arent trusted - he did a good thing.

    Its a cultural thing, i guess.
    One you cannot understand unless you lived it.

    He was the first Catholic. He never once made statements contrary to the faith. He didnt lead others into heresies like so many Catholics in politics do now. [Pelosi - Biden - to name a few]

    I have books about his life - to be honest i got from my dad's death. I havent read them. I gather they are persuasive towards liking him. He was faithful in modelship - even if his heart may have carried desires. He didnt publickly scandalize.

    NOW - all reports afterwards may have caused scandals - but no one knows if they are the honest details or just rumor mills. Since the man can no longer defend himself.

    This is where the expression came from - [or partly] not to speak ill of the dead - because there is no one to defend them and they cant speak - so causing scandals on them - is pretty nasty to do.

    IF he were alive and could deny these things - give alibi's against them... then thats one thing. To speak ill of a dead person - who could be wronged - is really something i think pl need to take more prudence of.

    NOW - if he got on tv and predicted future events and made public claims - we would know what he said and done. [which he didnt] - but even if he did - we have hope he recanted them before passing. Like i hope Sylvia Brown did.

    Meantime - speculation publickly that may be wrong - becomes our own sin - when we speak of things no one knows about - but treat them as solid gold evidence.
     
  8. Michie

    Michie Manipulation Resistance Team Supporter

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  9. eastcoast_bsc

    eastcoast_bsc Veteran

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    I like how you excoriate another human being and then add as almost an afterthought.

    Now that being said, I am sure deep down you have a a shred of humanity underneath your bitterness. ;)
     
  10. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 Nobody important Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Ambassador

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  11. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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  12. eastcoast_bsc

    eastcoast_bsc Veteran

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    There is a catholic church in Boston, it is in the Charlestown section of the city. it is the Parish of St. Vincent De Sales. There is a fenced in graveyard that contains up to 10,000 unmarked graves of Irish immigrants. Many died alone and hungry, suffering from various diseases. The protestants majority at the time would not allow the Irish Catholics to bury their dead on the property. The protestants enacted dubious laws to prevent burial. They were called the 'Paddy laws"

    A few years back a project was started to document the names and to build a memorial.

    I got emotional when I read the names and saw my last name more than several times. i wondered if they were alone when they died, or if anyone cared. here is a small photo of the memorial. 10,000 Irish Catholics reside here.

    There was also a convent in Charlestown Boston that was attacked by a mob of protestants and burned to the ground.

    So yes, when John Kennedy was elected, we knew we had arrived. We were proud Irish Americans who lived through much persecution.

    We all have feet of clay, as do our leaders. But JFK was a leader.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. S.ilvio

    S.ilvio Newbie

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    There's no doubt he had the best speech writers of the time...
     
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  14. S.ilvio

    S.ilvio Newbie

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    I can't believe Eastcoast is turning this thread into a Sectarian hate thread towards Protestants.

    What about the Irish Catholics who, in the 1970's, tore an Irish Catholic mother from her 10 children, shot her in the head and for decades would not tell her family where her body was and denied them giving her a decent burial..? http://www.herald.ie/opinion/column...snt-gone-away-you-know-mr-adams-29751944.html

    Protestants do not have a monopoly on savagery.

    JFK was an elitist, immoral sleaze who happened to be from a Catholic background and became leader of the Western World.

    Instead of deifying him, he was just like me in many ways for being weak willed and uncaring about the harm his actions caused to his family.

    I recognise this now and am trying, at least, to mend my ways. Can the same be said for him..?
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  15. Second Phoenix

    Second Phoenix New Member

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    You do realize that America was founded by English colonists? Do you expect a country of English origin to side against its motherland in favor of a place whose immigrants it hated? We had signs such as "Irish need not apply."

    The colonists were also not just English, but of Meath/Ulster. Many of us settled in America because we were too rebellious. We call ourselves (I am from protestant stock) Scotch-Irish. I believe you call them Ulster or unionist, royalists. Yes, if we stayed in Ireland, I might be a stupid IRA supporter.

    For JFK to side with Ireland over the UK would be a disaster. Things take patience and time.
     
  16. S.ilvio

    S.ilvio Newbie

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    Meath is a county in the eastern province of Leinster. Ulster is the northern province.

    The term is Scots-Irish. Scots-Irish people in Ireland are not from IRA stock. Quite the opposite actually.

    I never said I expected JFK to side against his biggest ally during the Cold War. But today, in Ireland and across Catholic Irish America, they make a big deal about his Irish stock. While in reality he cared far more about his relationship with the UK.

    People need perspective.

    Say what you like about the IRA, in all its forms but the word stupid would not be one that's mentioned a lot...
     
  17. Second Phoenix

    Second Phoenix New Member

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    I believe Ireland has five cores. As I am sure you know, as your Irish history will surpass mine, Meath was the first English claim in Ireland. Ulster became the primary focus of colonization.

    Yes, we were the opposite of the IRA. I was always told we were "Scotch-Irish" in that side of my family. It is my understanding that this part of my family was sent to colonize Ireland - and we eventually ended up in America.

    What did Ireland have to offer?
    Yes- due to a moment of confusion- I must admit I had that backwards. The IRA wants to preserve Ireland for the Irish. My family had no right to invade and colonize your country. Of course, we were Scots.
     
  18. Second Phoenix

    Second Phoenix New Member

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    "We were Scots" .. I never said that before. It's kinda fun :)
     
  19. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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    I know, right?

    The Irish had a very hard time of it.
    Not at all loved... and yes Catholics had a super hard time too.

    Being Irish Catholic was a double whammy.
    You are referring to an isolated tho savage case - vs - an entire community/country against the group.

    The thing is - no one knows the Irish were enslaved here.
    The focus is primarily n the dark colored folks...

    Yet ya dont hear the Irish making a huge deal of it.
    We keep on going - and as an Irishman - you ought to be proud our families took our lumps and persevered quietly.
    Truly the Catholic way.

    No one is making JFK a god. He was a human - but vilifying him when he cant speak for himself - speaking ill of the dead - doesnt seem right.

    I dont know - Silv - he had his issues - but for all the good he did - i think it very imprudent to smear his name.
    This is why we ought not harm someone's 'name' after they did good... because the good they have done can turn folks away from that good.

    Was he a saint? I dont know where he is.. its likely he was given the same chance of repentance as anyone else before death. I have hope he accepted it.

    Of course i have hope for anyone the same gift of grace.

    He said a lot of good... stuff. He didnt counter the faith in his speeches or words. He didnt deny Jesus or the Bible.

    NOW had he publicly done wrong - i would be prudent - but i dont think i would be happy giving him a memorial - which is actually the point of this thread.

    To remember the good he did... not recount his sins publicly.
     
  20. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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    The Scots are kin...
     
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