Remembering JFK

[Michie]

I know, right?

The Irish had a very hard time of it.
Not at all loved... and yes Catholics had a super hard time too.

Being Irish Catholic was a double whammy.

You are referring to an isolated tho savage case - vs - an entire community/country against the group.

The thing is - no one knows the Irish were enslaved here.
The focus is primarily n the dark colored folks...

Yet ya dont hear the Irish making a huge deal of it.
We keep on going - and as an Irishman - you ought to be proud our families took our lumps and persevered quietly.
Truly the Catholic way.

No one is making JFK a god. He was a human - but vilifying him when he cant speak for himself - speaking ill of the dead - doesnt seem right.

I dont know - Silv - he had his issues - but for all the good he did - i think it very imprudent to smear his name.
This is why we ought not harm someone's 'name' after they did good... because the good they have done can turn folks away from that good.

Was he a saint? I dont know where he is.. its likely he was given the same chance of repentance as anyone else before death. I have hope he accepted it.

Of course i have hope for anyone the same gift of grace.

He said a lot of good... stuff. He didnt counter the faith in his speeches or words. He didnt deny Jesus or the Bible.

NOW had he publicly done wrong - i would be prudent - but i dont think i would be happy giving him a memorial - which is actually the point of this thread.

To remember the good he did... not recount his sins publicly.

 

[S.ilvio]

IYou are referring to an isolated tho savage case - vs - an entire community/country against the group.

Isolated? Really?? You couldn't be more wrong. The Disappeared of Northern Ireland

The Irish, Catholic, IRA carried out a war of terror on their own, Irish& Catholic, community for 30 years. They killed more Irish Catholics than British soldiers.

I note you don't deny my contentions regarding JFK disgusting treatment of his Catholic married wife via his countless affairs. He cared little about his Catholic heritage.

I know quite a lot about Irish discrimination in America and the No Dogs, No Irish signs.

I also know about the rich Irish Catholic merchants who advocated such treatment.

The Ivy League Kennedys lived in their elitist bubble and took advantage of Joe's corrupt political empire.

Sure, Bobby, though as morally tainted as his brother with his own myriad of sexual affairs, did a lot of good in Civil Rights and really did commit to socio-economic issues. And Teddy, who lived a full life did some sterling work as a legislator.


You see I am in some way balanced but the white washing of the JFK legacy is being dishonest to history...

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Isolated? Really?? You couldn't be more wrong. The Disappeared of Northern Ireland

The Irish, Catholic, IRA carried out a war of terror on their own, Irish& Catholic, community for 30 years. They killed more Irish Catholics than British soldiers.

I note you don't deny my contentions regarding JFK disgusting treatment of his Catholic married wife via his countless affairs. He cared little about his Catholic heritage.

I know quite a lot about Irish discrimination in America and the No Dogs, No Irish signs.

I also know about the rich Irish Catholic merchants who advocated such treatment.

The Ivy League Kennedys lived in their elitist bubble and took advantage of Joe's corrupt political empire.

Sure, Bobby, though as morally tainted as his brother with his own myriad of sexual affairs, did a lot of good in Civil Rights and really did commit to socio-economic issues. And Teddy, who lived a full life did some sterling work as a legislator.


You see I am in some way balanced but the white washing of the JFK legacy is being dishonest to history...

You sure you are not a Southern Baptist? You seem to be overly concerned with the sins of others. I learned many years ago, that those who speak the loudest regarding the perceived sins of others, often have their own hidden sins. Don't we all?

I also learned that all our leaders have feet of clay and but for the grace of God go I.

 

[StevenMerten]

I am not necessarily a fan of JFK.

Was he not the president, who once in office, and seeing the stockpile of US nuclear weapons pointed at the Soviet Union, was horrified. And then he went out and ordered a massive amount of more nukes for the MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) initiative?

The UN Vietnam war. France, after being liberated by the Allies in WWII, wanted to again oppress Vietnam. Hochiman went to the US to ask for help against French oppression. The US could not see dropping bombs on white UN allied, French soldiers. So the US declined Hochiman's request. When the the Soviets wanted to help Hochiman, at the route and exit of the French army, then the US, under JFK was interested in helping the UN, and South Vietnam, fight the North Vietnamese, who were now communists allied with the Soviets.

In the Bay of Pigs (Cuba), JFK, backed out in the last minuet (cowardous), and betrayed Cuban soldier liberators, and did not send in US air support, which was mandatory in their assault against Castro. Without US air support, the liberators were annihilated by Castro's forces. Then, fearing the US, Castro made a deal with the Soviets, including Soviet nukes, aimed at America, in Cuba, for their support. We almost had Mutual Assured Destruction of the world.

Civil rights and equality were in full swing in JFK's administration. Blacks should be equal to whites. No more equal but separate. Well, Duh! Help them!

Again, why is JFK such a great American President? I am not for him being assassinated. However, being assassinated does not make a President great.

I am not a fan of JFK. Of course, president Johnson having him killed for the presidency, I am not a fan of either. Ok, so I am not totally sure this was the case. President Johnson I am not a fan of either. B52s carpet bombing North Vietnam, that sounds immoral. I am not against justified war but President Johnson did not fight with justice. Thanks president Ford for pulling us out of Vietnam. Now we are friends of Vietnam.

 

[S.ilvio]

You sure you are not a Southern Baptist? You seem to be overly concerned with the sins of others. I learned many years ago, that those who speak the loudest regarding the perceived sins of others, often have their own hidden sins. Don't we all?

I also learned that all our leaders have feet of clay and but for the grace of God go I.

Physician, heal thyself...

 

[Michie]

LOL! Crazy how memorial threads turn out in OBOB.

 

[S.ilvio]

Not really. JFK left a big mark on American life for good and bad. It's only natural differing views will emerge on his legacy...

 

[Michie]

Not really. JFK left a big mark on American life for good and bad. It's only natural differing views will emerge on his legacy...

It's a memorial thread to honor his service. Not a thread to debate his legacy & dig up personal dirt outside his public life & service.

 

[S.ilvio]

The thread title is 'Remembering JFK'.

Are we to ignore his legacy for ill aswell as good..?

 

[Michie]

The thread title is 'Remembering JFK'.

Are we to ignore his legacy for ill aswell as good..?

I think his personal affairs are his own.

 

[S.ilvio]

I think his personal affairs are his own.

Could we even begin to quantify the number of affairs he had?

Poor Jackie. She had to endure constant disrespect from that immoral twerp for so long. Yet she rose above his cheating and was the real hero of that marriage...

 

[Rhamiel]

lol just because he is dead we should forget his flaws?
I must have missed the memo where he got canonized

 

[Michie]

lol just because he is dead we should forget his flaws?
I must have missed the memo where he got canonized

You know Rhamiel...when you start a thread memorializing a public figure that was assassinated during his service to the country you are not asking for disrespect. I mean Obama is still breathing & if anyone says anything about him it is considered in poor taste. It would be different if a thread were opened wanting to discuss his private life & family history.

 

[S.ilvio]

lol just because he is dead we should forget his flaws?
I must have missed the memo where he got canonized

There's a gap in the market for the Patron Saint for billionaire, philandering cads who rode on the coat tails of a Nazi sympathising daddy to gain political favour...

 

[Rhamiel]

There's a gap in the market for the Patron Saint for billionaire, philandering cads who rode on the coat tails of a Nazi sympathising daddy to gain political favour...

hey, you might want to cool it with the "Nazi sympathizing" stuff
lots of Irishmen were willing to over look Germany as long as they were attacking the British.

there is a fine line between being honest about history and showing a lack of respect for the dead

 

[Michie]

hey, you might want to cool it with the "Nazi sympathizing" stuff
lots of Irishmen were willing to over look Germany as long as they were attacking the British.

there is a fine line between being honest about history and showing a lack of respect for the dead

Thank you.

 

[S.ilvio]

hey, you might want to cool it with the "Nazi sympathizing" stuff
lots of Irishmen were willing to over look Germany as long as they were attacking the British.

there is a fine line between being honest about history and showing a lack of respect for the dead

Hey yourself.

Good old Joe's record of cosying up to Hitler as British Ambassador has to be seen to be believed. His dislike of Jews was also renowned...

 

[Tallguy88]

Hey yourself.

Good old Joe's record of cosying up to Hitler as British Ambassador has to be seen to be believed. His dislike of Jews was also renowned...

Let's not forget, though, that Joe Kennedy Jr. died fighting the Nazis. And Jack was a decorated war hero commanding a PT boat against the Japs.

There's a lot of things you can criticize the Kennedy's for. Lack of patriotism is not one of them.

 

[Michie]

Let's not forget, though, that Joe Kennedy Jr. died fighting the Nazis. And Jack was a decorated war hero commanding a PT boat against the Japs.

There's a lot of things you can criticize the Kennedy's for. Lack of patriotism is not one of them.

True. I was thinking of that as well. When does personal actions & opinion taint pubic service to country? And really...who can help their family history?

 

[Rhamiel]

Hey yourself.

Good old Joe's record of cosying up to Hitler as British Ambassador has to be seen to be believed. His dislike of Jews was also renowned...

and Ireland was neutral in WWII....